Visions, NDE's, or DE's. True or false?

Roughsoul1991 · May 31, 2017

We hear how some have near death experiences, death and came back, or prophets visions.

Many speak of Heaven and speak of out of body experiences. And even some speak if hell. Some come back claiming to have a message from God while others either didn't want to return to earth once seeing heaven and others are thankful to be back to not have to go to hell.

We have books, documentaries, movies, and eye witnesses.

I do not disbelieve that God can do all this. But how can any of this be trusted? Are we to take it face value and take the biblical truths from it and just kinda keep it in the mind vault of possibly true but not sure? Some of these people only felt a very bright warm and loving light drawing them and they wanted to reach this light with great excitement but then pulled back to earth brought back to life they woke up sad to be alive. While others actually sees heaven or hell and returns to earth telling of what they saw with biblical truths but also things that cant be proven like the things that go on in heaven or hell.

These people claim to be true and some even claim yo bring a message. How in the world can we know if any of its true.

I lean more towards just believing the bible period. But prophets who sees visions is biblical so I dont know.

Angela53510 · May 31, 2017

And if I read it in the Bible, I will believe the vision. The problem is that some of these people have already renounced their NDEs. I read a book by one person, a pastor, and it didn't line up with Scripture.

Then there is the question of why God would give people these experiences, when we have the Bible? Some would say it is because more people are revived from death. But, I don't need to have some kind of vision to have faith. After all, faith is the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1. Blessed are those who have not seen and believed. John 20:29

samuel23 · May 31, 2017

Here is the problem with special experiences of a spiritual nature, we have absolutely no way of knowing they are true. Now it is possible to know that they are false, but no definite way to know that they are true. If the spiritual experience clearly violates scripture, then we can know that it is false, on the other hand, a spiritual experience told by someone that does not violate scripture still does not have to be true. Take myself for example, I could make up an experience(which I would never do), and I know the bible well enough to make sure that it lines up with scripture. So what we believe about the story of a spiritual experience told by someone else, depends entirely on our choice of whether or not to believe. Most spiritual experiences told by people, I do not believe, because I can see where they violate scripture. I admit that there are some that I believe have told the truth, however I freely admit that I could be fooled. I believe the story of Howard Pittman, I believe that Howard Storm had a real experience. The story by Choo Thomas violated the scripture all over the place yet it was a popular book. The story by Mary K Baxter was totally absurd though she went to great lengths to make it conform to the scriptures. I have never went to Heaven or Hell, however I have had a few unusual spiritual experiences myself in the past.

Blain · May 31, 2017

Most of the time you cannot know for sure if it's true or false. There are many factors to consider such as if it lines up with scripture or not, if you know the person well enough to know if they would make something like that up or if they have a wild imagination and only think they saw what they did, or if they are known to have such experiences or not.
For me as much as I wish I have been to heaven I have not, I can describe it in great and vast detail as if i have been there because Sometimes God allows me to see through the veil and in my spiritual eyes i can see things and can even describe the texture of of stuff there as if i was actually touching it or describe the aroma of things there as if I was actually smelling it.

However I wouldn't say that is actually being there. Hell however is a place I have been to and I have to be honest I haven't found a lot of scripture to validate the things I saw there and experienced there other than the lake of fire and the eternal torment and the weeping and gnashing of teeth. When I describe my experience of hell I don't expect people to believe me and am not upset if they don't and if they call me a liar this is because I have nothing to prove and only speak of it for the sake of who it was meant for.

But it wasn't a near death experience those are unique in many ways. Did you know that when a person dies or is near death there brain releases a chemical that is very much likened to a bright white light? for some it is very much like a warm fuzzy feeling and a bright light kind of like how if you hit your head hard you see whiteness and hear a ringing.

But that is only the scientific way of looking at it because while that is true it is not uncommon for people to enter the spiritual realm at death or to hear God's voice near death. If I don't know the person I am weary of believing them about such things especially online but I also keep an open mind because just from what I know of God it wouldn't surprise me for such things to happen

Gabriel2020 · Jun 1, 2017

Paul saw heaven, and not by death,but by God,and the things he said he heard was unspeakable words,which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Those that have seen Heaven or Jesus has always been Godly people. ,and not on their death bed. Satan transforms himself as an angel of light, deceiving people. A fine example: the little boy who came back from death, and claims he saw Jesus.telling everyone that Jesus was a nigger. Now just think how many souls that hate black people got turned away from God when they heard that. Oh my God!!!

Rockrz · Jun 1, 2017

Maybe Jesus will give someone a vision to reveal why He created paragraphs!

Wow! This talkboard is now going to be in the news and protests are gonna break out all over the place... couldn't you have just said cracker!

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

My thoughts before this thread was very skeptical but not completely dismissed. I feel like God already gave everyone all they need to know about heaven ot hell through his word. We are told heaven is really good and hell is well hell. I mean does God got to paint a dantes enferno picture of hell to make me estimate the cost of not surrendering to him? I dont think so. After all that picture has already been painted by the author of dantes enferno and as scary as that was it still didnt turn the whole generation to God. So i believe it is just as God told the rich man in hell wanting to warn his family to follow God and not be doomed to hell. God said they dont believe the prophets what makes you think they would believe you.

Implying we have everything in scripture. I mean if someone dies and is brought back claiming to have a message from God. Its usually the same message written in scripture. Repent and live for God. Yes they may add descriptions if heaven or hell that we cant prove to be true but the message is still the same. So im kinda skeptical why send a messenger when his word says it all. And we are to preach the same message but obviously without all the extra stuff we cant prove to be true.

I dont deny its possibility but only from a logical standpoint i feel we are given everything worth knowing in scripture.

Adstar · Jun 1, 2017

We have the message of God in the Bible and thats all we need to know to be saved.. We do not need to trust in any person who delivers an NDE experience to us.. We do not need to even listen to them.. We can simply ignore them..

Blain · Jun 1, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

Well it is true that his word is pretty clear however history shows that his word sometimes is not enough. consider the Jews for instance, God made it abundantly clear to obey and follow his commands and yet time and time again even though they knew what god had commanded how many times did he have to use a prophet to warn them to turn from their sinful ways or else something bad would happen?
Also consider how Jesus spoke of all this and even gave direction in the way they were to follow him and yet many of them were stubborn and would not listen. My take on this is that sometimes he has to go to extra lengths to get people to listen, for me my experience with hell was more of a personal message from God I wasn't given any message to give to people and whenever there is a message he wants me to give his church it doesn't have to be from some supernatural experience it just is placed on my heart.

Personally I think such experiences are mainly fake and for entertainment but I have seen God use me personally to touch peoples hearts from what experiences like that, like how I can describe heaven is such detail like that may or may not even be me seeing heaven but there was a girl here in cc once who was browsing the forums she wasn't member or anything but i was here in the bible discussion forum describing the images of heaven in great detail and she made an account and messaged me personally telling me how from what I described God had touched her heart and gave her hope again.

Apparently she was going to kill herself soon and was only browsing this place in a last effort to find any kind of hope and upon reading what I was describing she said it as if God was speaking to her directly of what is waiting for her if she would only hold and and she said that because of what she read me describe she was suddenly filled with life and it was like her soul was a dark room until she read that and suddenly there was nothing but light inside her.

So again while I am skeptical of such things I cannot say that they don't do good, if they are real I believe that the holy spirit will be in the words spoken describing them and if even one person is impacted by it then maybe it was a God thing

Gabriel2020 · Jun 1, 2017

The holy spirit is all that is needed and all there will ever be needed to reveal God's truth to us.

Rockrz · Jun 1, 2017

Not without the written Word of God... without the written Word, you'd never know anything about the Holy Spirit.

In fact, the Holy Spirit came to teach us the Word.

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

God is a irrational and does things we cant comprehend. Our brain are built to rationalize everything. Its natural for us to try and rationalize a irrational God. God is logical in fact its his nature so nothing God does is illogical. It always has a purpose but not alway rational to understand.

Left side of the cerebrum in our brain controls rationalizing. This part of the brain also at the same time controls movement, body temp, touch, hearing, judgment, reasoning, problem solving, emotions, and learning.

So when God parts the red sea so his people could cross. It was logical as an escape but irrational to human mind. The human mind wants to touch, hear, sort through emotions, learning all the while trying to rationalize this irrational event.

This is how miracles are given meaning. We cant comprehend it but it very well happened.

So all this to say i cant fully deny Gods ability to send people visions or extended stays in heaven or hell and then return to tell the tale. Its irrational but i know God doesn't always work that way. Is it logical is thr question where i stand. I feel its logical that the bible had all the message we need.

But see then again thats my left brain rationalizing God.

Rockrz · Jun 1, 2017

Did He like forget to take His meds er something?

Nutin like throwing in a little psycho'babblin

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

Blain said:

Well it is true that his word is pretty clear however history shows that his word sometimes is not enough. consider the Jews for instance, God made it abundantly clear to obey and follow his commands and yet time and time again even though they knew what god had commanded how many times did he have to use a prophet to warn them to turn from their sinful ways or else something bad would happen?
Also consider how Jesus spoke of all this and even gave direction in the way they were to follow him and yet many of them were stubborn and would not listen. My take on this is that sometimes he has to go to extra lengths to get people to listen, for me my experience with hell was more of a personal message from God I wasn't given any message to give to people and whenever there is a message he wants me to give his church it doesn't have to be from some supernatural experience it just is placed on my heart.

Personally I think such experiences are mainly fake and for entertainment but I have seen God use me personally to touch peoples hearts from what experiences like that, like how I can describe heaven is such detail like that may or may not even be me seeing heaven but there was a girl here in cc once who was browsing the forums she wasn't member or anything but i was here in the bible discussion forum describing the images of heaven in great detail and she made an account and messaged me personally telling me how from what I described God had touched her heart and gave her hope again.

Apparently she was going to kill herself soon and was only browsing this place in a last effort to find any kind of hope and upon reading what I was describing she said it as if God was speaking to her directly of what is waiting for her if she would only hold and and she said that because of what she read me describe she was suddenly filled with life and it was like her soul was a dark room until she read that and suddenly there was nothing but light inside her.

So again while I am skeptical of such things I cannot say that they don't do good, if they are real I believe that the holy spirit will be in the words spoken describing them and if even one person is impacted by it then maybe it was a God thing

Well for a long time preaching fire and brimstone was very popular and scared the mess out of people into belief. It was known that dantes enferno scared many people to come to God.

But them days are gone. We now live in a world where preaching heaven is great but preaching on the consequences of sin is hell and people get offended or deny hell altogether.

People want to hear good and never allow the bad to reach in far enough to completely change them.

Rockrz · Jun 1, 2017

Yeah, and some got rich renting porta-potties too!

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

Rockrz said:

To say he is always rational would be false. Because we can't always comprehend his rational will. So to us he is rational and irrational. But to God who is all knowing is always rational. To us sometimes God seems irrational because we fail to see the logic. So in our irrational understanding of Gods character we except in faith he is but only logical and rational.

Not because we can always see his will as logical but because in faith we know it to be without seeing.

Rockrz · Jun 1, 2017

Depends on who's point of view you are looking at things from.

God sees the big picture and we just see a very, very small amount of what's going on.

He's always right and perfect in knowledge, wisdom, and understanding... so it's not even remotely possible that He could ever be irrational is any way.

We need to look at things from His viewpoint... the carnal minded viewpoint is in error.

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

Rockrz said:

Basically Gods logic sometimes is incomprehensible within human logic.

So to us before knowing the nature of God we cant comprehend how the red sea parted or how its logical for it to had happened. So to a human mind in its natural state see God as irrational.

But to a believer who knows God is all knowing and seeing and has a plan. We except in faith that Gods logic is true and can be trusted. So to God is rational but to man God can seem irrational. Until by faith we except Gods plan as logic and truth.

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

The awesome part is God designed our brains to rationalize but at the same time when prompted to except things in faith. Soo cool

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 1, 2017

Rockrz said:

Glad you understand what i was trying to point at. Sometimes my deep thinking process can get, well, deep and seem to be nonsense lol

Visions, NDE's, or DE's. True or false?

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