soul sleep

[Muzungu256]

hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i want to start a discussion on this topic because on another hand we are told all will be resurrected at the last day and that before that people are 'sleeping'.............. but we see in other parts of the bible paul says he wants to depart and be with the Lord, absent with the body present with the Lord and also we see elijah and moses show up with Jesus and disciples............

what is my opinion? i think soul sleep is false because of the examples i gave above there is no way all the disciples were just hallucinating elijah and moses i think they were really there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Philippians 1:23
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

 

[3putter]

The story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man speaks about this. Luke 16:19-31

 

[MattforJesus]

hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i want to start a discussion on this topic because on another hand we are told all will be resurrected at the last day and that before that people are 'sleeping'.............. but we see in other parts of the bible paul says he wants to depart and be with the Lord, absent with the body present with the Lord and also we see elijah and moses show up with Jesus and disciples............

what is my opinion? i think soul sleep is false because of the examples i gave above there is no way all the disciples were just hallucinating elijah and moses i think they were really there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord,and the souls under the alter say to Jesus,how long Lord will it be before you avenge us,and Jesus said,when all the saints are resurrected to be with them,which Jesus comes back with all the saints,and defeats the world in the future.

Jesus said concerning the kingdom of God,that they will not say here it is,or there it is,but the kingdom of God is within you,which is by being led of the Holy Spirit,and showing the kingdom of God's ways on earth.

If you belong to the kingdom of God on earth,no need for you to sleep until a later date.

If I have not yet purchased a house,I cannot live there,but if I purchase a house,no need to wait to move in,but I can move in right away.Jesus purchased us while on earth,and washed away our sins while on earth,and we receive the Spirit on earth,not after this earth.The kingdom of God is within you.No need to sleep,but you can go to your new home right away,or your first new home,for there is another new home after that for the saints.

We either leave this earth in a saved state,or an unsaved state,it can be only one of the 2,and not a might be saved state,and if you leave the earth in a saved state,no use of you sleeping for you are saved,for you belong to the kingdom already,and do not have to wait until a future date.

Sleeping is only for the people that are not saved,or did not come to the truth of God according to His word,for some can be saved at the great white throne judgment.

1.Old Testament saints slept for the blood of Christ was not shed yet,so they were not saved yet,but when the blood of Christ washed away their sins,up they went to be with Jesus,for then they were saved.

2.People that did not acknowledge the truth when enough information was given them holding them accountable,or never heard the truth,they will sleep until the millennial reign of Christ is over.

Saved people need not sleep,but they go directly to be with Jesus,for sleep is only for the people who are not saved.

When all the dead are raised at the great white throne judgement,some people can be saved at that time,for they never heard the truth,and they will be judged on creation testifies that there is a God that loves people,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,so they should also love people,which love is the fulfilling of the law,and their conscience,and to ask this higher power to forgive them if anything is amiss,in other words they care to do what is right,although they would not understand the strictness as given according to the Holy Spirit,and that is where the asking for forgiveness if they lacked,but of course we understand the basic good and evil concept.

 

[samuel23]

This is one of those places in the bible that has two diverse positions that both have to be true. Jesus and Paul both taught that to die in the Lord brings you into the presence of God but also that there is a resurrection. It is obvious that one cannot be with the Lord and be resurrected from the ground at the same time, though some well meaning folks have come up with the scenario of the flesh body being raised from the ground to meet the spirit in the air at the return of Christ. The bible does not give us such a scenario and I personally find this idea is grasping at straws. A few verses, Paul said that when Jesus returns to gather the living saints on earth that He will bring with Him those who have died. Then Paul says that those who have died will be called forth first. Lets think, if Jesus brings the dead in Christ with Him, then they cannot be on earth, so they must be called forth from some place in the Heavenly realm. So the resurrection of the dead in Christ must be when the Lord calls them from their heavenly abode to go with Him to earth to gather the still living saints on earth.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

This is one of those places in the bible that has two diverse positions that both have to be true. Jesus and Paul both taught that to die in the Lord brings you into the presence of God but also that there is a resurrection. It is obvious that one cannot be with the Lord and be resurrected from the ground at the same time, though some well meaning folks have come up with the scenario of the flesh body being raised from the ground to meet the spirit in the air at the return of Christ. The bible does not give us such a scenario and I personally find this idea is grasping at straws. A few verses, Paul said that when Jesus returns to gather the living saints on earth that He will bring with Him those who have died. Then Paul says that those who have died will be called forth first. Lets think, if Jesus brings the dead in Christ with Him, then they cannot be on earth, so they must be called forth from some place in the Heavenly realm. So the resurrection of the dead in Christ must be when the Lord calls them from their heavenly abode to go with Him to earth to gather the still living saints on earth.

Daniel 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[samuel23]

Yes I know that scripture, however we know that Christians do not sleep in the dust. Possibly the angel was just making the point that those who have died and been buried will be brought back to life.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

True! Christians do not sleep in the dust. But each Christian's dead flesh will be resurrected and turned into a glorified spiritual body joined with their soul from heaven.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.

SOURCE

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23

The souls of the unsaved goes to a place of silence.

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 115:17[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.[/FONT]

 

[samuel23]

I am sorry Saul but the bible never anywhere presents us with the picture of spirits coming with Jesus and then their dead bodies coming up out of the ground and the two meeting in the air, that scenario is 100% man made, and I understand the "why", because how can we be in Heaven with God and be resurrected at the same time, however the attempt by man to reconcile these two doctrines is just totally ridiculous. It is not going to happen, Paul was definite that what goes into the ground(our flesh body) is NOT what is resurrected.

 

[ArtAttack]

so who thinkd Robo is dorky af

Philippians 1:23
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

 

[ArtAttack]

Robo is a douche bag that learned how to make a website

 

[dcontroversal]

hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i want to start a discussion on this topic because on another hand we are told all will be resurrected at the last day and that before that people are 'sleeping'.............. but we see in other parts of the bible paul says he wants to depart and be with the Lord, absent with the body present with the Lord and also we see elijah and moses show up with Jesus and disciples............

what is my opinion? i think soul sleep is false because of the examples i gave above there is no way all the disciples were just hallucinating elijah and moses i think they were really there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree.......those who use the O.T. verses the talk about the dead not knowing anything miss the fact that they are speaking to what is happening on the earth....there are numerous verses that imply both the lost and dead are conscience and fully aware of what is happening and where they are at.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Robo is a douche bag that learned how to make a website

An intellectually superior idiot here.......your vitriol and bloviating won't last long.......

 

[Denadii]

An intellectually superior idiot here.......your vitriol and bloviating won't last long.......

LOL I learned a new word...Bloviating Pompous talk... inveighing....blowing hot air....Good word!!

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

I am sorry Saul but the bible never anywhere presents us with the picture of spirits coming with Jesus and then their dead bodies coming up out of the ground and the two meeting in the air, that scenario is 100% man made, and I understand the "why", because how can we be in Heaven with God and be resurrected at the same time, however the attempt by man to reconcile these two doctrines is just totally ridiculous. It is not going to happen, Paul was definite that what goes into the ground(our flesh body) is NOT what is resurrected.

You must know more than God.
The Bible is very clear the dead of both unsaved and saved will be risen on the last day.

[h=1]Daniel 12:2King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[/FONT]
[h=1]John 6:40King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[/FONT]
[h=1]1 Corinthians 15:51King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[sparkman]

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/calvin_psychopannychia.html

You might want to check this out..notice the hilarious title.

 

[joaniemarie]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord,and the souls under the alter say to Jesus,how long Lord will it be before you avenge us,and Jesus said,when all the saints are resurrected to be with them,which Jesus comes back with all the saints,and defeats the world in the future.

Jesus said concerning the kingdom of God,that they will not say here it is,or there it is,but the kingdom of God is within you,which is by being led of the Holy Spirit,and showing the kingdom of God's ways on earth.

If you belong to the kingdom of God on earth,no need for you to sleep until a later date.

If I have not yet purchased a house,I cannot live there,but if I purchase a house,no need to wait to move in,but I can move in right away.Jesus purchased us while on earth,and washed away our sins while on earth,and we receive the Spirit on earth,not after this earth.The kingdom of God is within you.No need to sleep,but you can go to your new home right away,or your first new home,for there is another new home after that for the saints.

We either leave this earth in a saved state,or an unsaved state,it can be only one of the 2,and not a might be saved state,and if you leave the earth in a saved state,no use of you sleeping for you are saved,for you belong to the kingdom already,and do not have to wait until a future date.

Sleeping is only for the people that are not saved,or did not come to the truth of God according to His word,for some can be saved at the great white throne judgment.

1.Old Testament saints slept for the blood of Christ was not shed yet,so they were not saved yet,but when the blood of Christ washed away their sins,up they went to be with Jesus,for then they were saved.

2.People that did not acknowledge the truth when enough information was given them holding them accountable,or never heard the truth,they will sleep until the millennial reign of Christ is over.

Saved people need not sleep,but they go directly to be with Jesus,for sleep is only for the people who are not saved.

When all the dead are raised at the great white throne judgement,some people can be saved at that time,for they never heard the truth,and they will be judged on creation testifies that there is a God that loves people,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,so they should also love people,which love is the fulfilling of the law,and their conscience,and to ask this higher power to forgive them if anything is amiss,in other words they care to do what is right,although they would not understand the strictness as given according to the Holy Spirit,and that is where the asking for forgiveness if they lacked,but of course we understand the basic good and evil concept.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you so please clarify. Do you know that once a person dies., they don't get a second chance to get saved? It's appointed unto men to die only once and then the judgment. (unless they got born again IN Christ) I agree with you about the believer. He/she goes to be with the Lord right away because we are alive and we do not experience the second death. PRAISE JESUS!! To be absent from this flesh and blood body is to be present with the Lord.

But the unbeliever is subject to be judged for the imputed sin of Adam plus all that persons sins., since that unsaved person has not received Jesus and the gift of Jesus imputed righteousness. The Great White Throne Judgment is strictly FOR the unsaved Rev.20:11-15 NOT the saved. The saved are not judged there. The believer has already been "judged" and found innocent in Jesus Christ. The believers "judgment" is concerning the REWARDS he lost., not about his position in Christ. We do not fear any judgement from God anymore since Jesus has already taken it all for us.

There are no second chances once a person dies here on earth without Christ.

 

[joaniemarie]

Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.

SOURCE

I would only say that no one is waiting in Abraham's bosom anymore since Jesus died and rose again., He lead captivity captive so no saint is waiting since all were given Christ's righteousness who were waiting in Abraham's bosom. If you or I die today (before the Lord Jesus returns) our flesh and blood bodies will be buried and will be "sleeping" but our spirit man (who we are) will go to be with Jesus totally awake and aware.

And so when we Christians die., (unless Jesus comes and raptures us) we go to be with the Lord right away. I don't know what form of spiritual body we will have at that time before He returns (if we are not raptured) since it clearly says the dead in Christ shall rise first - meaning their bodies that were buried are changed in a moment and we are given a new incorruptible body like Jesus has. (our spirit will be reunited with our bodies remade) If we die before Jesus comes we will be one of those "dead in Christ who rise first"

Clearly in 1 Thess.4:13-18 it tells all about the catching away of the church saints when Christ comes to meet us in air (not touching down on the earth yet) That is when all the saints from all the ages get their new bodies. David and Mosses and all those old testament saints are in heaven with Jesus right now but without their resurrected bodies that are now "sleeping" and waiting to be resurrected and reunited with their spirit man. YAHOO!!