immortality of the soul!

[Muzungu256]

hi all i wanted to bring this up because some sisters like magenta here have told me that immortality of the soul isn't biblical and that its greek philosophy.......... i can say maybe the early church fathers knew much greek philosophy but i don't think they would compromise and change the truth they had to some philosophy??????? they were willing to die for their beliefs and many did.......... here is how i look at it and maybe some others: i see in the scriptures that death doesn't always mean physical death but it can be spiritual as well i would like to say that definition of death in the bible is separation of something.............. such as physical death is separation of soul and body, spiritual death is separation of our soul from God which is how we are before our relationship is restored by Jesus Christ i think this everyone agrees on its clear in the bible it says dead in trespasses and sins............... so when Lord Jesus Christ says don't be afraid of him who can destroy only body but He who can cast both soul and body into hell i think it means that second death which is separation from God like it says in

II thessalonians 1:8-9 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,


TL;DR version: i think death in the bible isnt always cease to exist or physical death but a separation of body and soul (physical) or separation from God (spiritual death, dead in trespasses and sins for example)................. also i think we aren't eternal like God is in that we have a beginning but once we are created in His image our soul is eternal???????? who agrees who disagrees and why?????????????

 

[dcontroversal]

hi all i wanted to bring this up because some sisters like magenta here have told me that immortality of the soul isn't biblical and that its greek philosophy.......... i can say maybe the early church fathers knew much greek philosophy but i don't think they would compromise and change the truth they had to some philosophy??????? they were willing to die for their beliefs and many did.......... here is how i look at it and maybe some others: i see in the scriptures that death doesn't always mean physical death but it can be spiritual as well i would like to say that definition of death in the bible is separation of something.............. such as physical death is separation of soul and body, spiritual death is separation of our soul from God which is how we are before our relationship is restored by Jesus Christ i think this everyone agrees on its clear in the bible it says dead in trespasses and sins............... so when Lord Jesus Christ says don't be afraid of him who can destroy only body but He who can cast both soul and body into hell i think it means that second death which is separation from God like it says in

II thessalonians 1:8-9 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,


TL;DR version: i think death in the bible isnt always cease to exist or physical death but a separation of body and soul (physical) or separation from God (spiritual death, dead in trespasses and sins for example)................. also i think we aren't eternal like God is in that we have a beginning but once we are created in His image our soul is eternal???????? who agrees who disagrees and why?????????????

The smoke of their torment ascending forever before the throne speaks volumes...........I personally believe in the eternal aspect....Whatsoever God does, it is everlasting Ecclesiastes 3:14 states.........

 

[NoNameMcgee]

well we arent eternal the same way God is...

like you said we have a beginning

but hell is forever

and so is heaven



Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
John Chapter 3


16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[stonesoffire]

What I know for sure from study..is that our soul is becoming one with our baptized in Holy Spirit spirit as we walk with the Lord.

Hell was made for the enemy, but if one is not redeemed? Body and soul go there? The spirit returns to God?

I have questions too.

 

[trofimus]

TL;DR version: i think death in the bible isnt always cease to exist or physical death but a separation of body and soul (physical) or separation from God (spiritual death, dead in trespasses and sins for example)................. also i think we aren't eternal like God is in that we have a beginning but once we are created in His image our soul is eternal???????? who agrees who disagrees and why?????????????

"and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 11:29

It is necessary to believe in Christ to live forever.

 

[Muzungu256]

"and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 11:29

It is necessary to believe in Christ to live forever.

i see that and it would maybe support annihilationism but as brother dcontroversial stated all God does is everlasting and not just that but why would all translators get the aionios mistranslated as eternal???????? it doesn't make sense also to say that they are just destroyed forever so its eternal judgment because it mentions torment also......................... you must realize i have been fooled once already on this subject and im not gonna let people pass one by me this time it says eternal and it mentions punishment and torment weeping and gnashing and all these things about hell so i have no reason to not accept it as face value yuo see??????? do you agree with me brother trofimus that if we let someone from the street read that passage they would conclude its forever????????????????

also what if eternal life is defined in john 17:3 what it means: [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]And this is eternal life, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]that they know you, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]the only [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]true God, and [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jesus Christ whom you have sent.[/FONT]

 

[trofimus]

BTW thanks for TL;DR version, it should become a habit for all long posts.

 

[trofimus]

i see that and it would maybe support annihilationism but as brother dcontroversial stated all God does is everlasting and not just that but why would all translators get the aionios mistranslated as eternal???????? it doesn't make sense also to say that they are just destroyed forever so its eternal judgment because it mentions torment also......................... you must realize i have been fooled once already on this subject and im not gonna let people pass one by me this time it says eternal and it mentions punishment and torment weeping and gnashing and all these things about hell so i have no reason to not accept it as face value yuo see??????? do you agree with me brother trofimus that if we let someone from the street read that passage they would conclude its forever????????????????

I have no idea why should all God creates be eternal.

I think its a problem in English (the translation of aionios), because aionios means "ageous", not "without end". It can mean "without end", i.e. eternal only by context, not by the word as such.

 

[Muzungu256]

I have no idea why should all God creates be eternal.

I think its a problem in English (the translation of aionios), because aionios means "ageous", not "without end". It can mean "without end", i.e. eternal only by context, not by the word as such.

what do you suggest then brother trofimus????????????? do you suggest its gonna be a punishment based on sins commited in hell and then annihilation at the end?????????????

 

[trofimus]

what do you suggest then brother trofimus????????????? do you suggest its gonna be a punishment based on sins commited in hell and then annihilation at the end?????????????

I personally belive unsaved people will be punished in hell for various periods of time and intensity based on their works and then their life will be taken out.

 

[MattforJesus]

We are body,soul,spirit.

All spirits go back to God who gave them no matter how the person acted on earth,so the spirit will not be a part of anyone in the afterlife.

The saints will put off the flesh,and the wicked will feel the affects of the flesh.

The soul will live on forever,with the saints,soul,and a glorified body,and the wicked,soul,and feeling the affects of the flesh for eternity,which it could be that they are stuck with a fleshy body that cannot perish,because they loved the ways of the flesh.

 

[graceNpeace]

If our souls are NOT immortal then what on earth are we being saved from or too?

I think the answer is self-evident, but, evidently not....

 

[Rockrz]

We are body,soul,spirit.

Actually the Word says we are spirit, soul, and body... in that order.

Look it up.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have no idea why should all God creates be eternal.

I think its a problem in English (the translation of aionios), because aionios means "ageous", not "without end". It can mean "without end", i.e. eternal only by context, not by the word as such.

Hi Trofimus,

Actually, the word "aion" and the word "aionios," which is an adjective derived from aion, can mean "an age, a cycle of time or eternal (having no ending). The context is what determines the meaning. For example:

"Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven. And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!"

The words in the scripture above "for ever and ever" are translated from the word "aion." Therefore, since we know that God has no beginning or ending, then the word "aion" would have to be understood as God who lives without beginning or end. So again, the meaning of the word is dependent upon the context.

 

[Ahwatukee]

hi all i wanted to bring this up because some sisters like magenta here have told me that immortality of the soul isn't biblical and that its greek philosophy.......... i can say maybe the early church fathers knew much greek philosophy but i don't think they would compromise and change the truth they had to some philosophy??????? they were willing to die for their beliefs and many did.......... here is how i look at it and maybe some others: i see in the scriptures that death doesn't always mean physical death but it can be spiritual as well i would like to say that definition of death in the bible is separation of something.............. such as physical death is separation of soul and body, spiritual death is separation of our soul from God which is how we are before our relationship is restored by Jesus Christ i think this everyone agrees on its clear in the bible it says dead in trespasses and sins............... so when Lord Jesus Christ says don't be afraid of him who can destroy only body but He who can cast both soul and body into hell i think it means that second death which is separation from God like it says in

II thessalonians 1:8-9 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,


TL;DR version: i think death in the bible isnt always cease to exist or physical death but a separation of body and soul (physical) or separation from God (spiritual death, dead in trespasses and sins for example)................. also i think we aren't eternal like God is in that we have a beginning but once we are created in His image our soul is eternal???????? who agrees who disagrees and why?????????????

Hi Muzunga256,

Everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Their decision for Christ or lack thereof, will determine where they spend that eternity. Both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies. The righteous will be resurrected into those immortal and glorified bodies and will have eternal life in the kingdom of God. The wicked will also receive resurrected bodies at the great white throne judgment that will withstand eternal fire, i.e. bodies that won't be able to be destroyed. According to scripture, everyone has never ending existence.

 

[jaybird88]

with the exception of the Sadducees, who didnt seem to believe in anything beyond the physical world, all Jewish groups in the days of Jesus and the 12 believed in pre existence. so i dont see how it could be a greek thought thing.

greek thought is not always the devil. Jesus taught on chastity vows, you wont find this in the Hebrew bible but it was common among the greek schools of thought.

 

[Muzungu256]

Hi Muzunga256,

Everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Their decision for Christ or lack thereof, will determine where they spend that eternity. Both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies. The righteous will be resurrected into those immortal and glorified bodies and will have eternal life in the kingdom of God. The wicked will also receive resurrected bodies at the great white throne judgment that will withstand eternal fire, i.e. bodies that won't be able to be destroyed. According to scripture, everyone has never ending existence.

so you would agree with me on this??????????????? nice

 

[valiant]

Hi Trofimus,

Actually, the word "aion" and the word "aionios," which is an adjective derived from aion, can mean "an age, a cycle of time or eternal (having no ending). The context is what determines the meaning. For example:

"Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven. And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!"

The words in the scripture above "for ever and ever" are translated from the word "aion." Therefore, since we know that God has no beginning or ending, then the word "aion" would have to be understood as God who lives without beginning or end. So again, the meaning of the word is dependent upon the context.

The Hebrews had no concept of eternity. aion meant age and aionios meant age long. Thus when they spoke of God's existence they spoke of Him existing 'to the ages of the ages'. But it never literally meant for ever and ever. For ever and ever is merely our added assumption,

 

[valiant]

Hi Muzunga256,

Everyone who comes into the world exists forever. Their decision for Christ or lack thereof, will determine where they spend that eternity. Both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies. The righteous will be resurrected into those immortal and glorified bodies and will have eternal life in the kingdom of God. The wicked will also receive resurrected bodies at the great white throne judgment that will withstand eternal fire, i.e. bodies that won't be able to be destroyed. According to scripture, everyone has never ending existence.

so says Ahwetukee. But on what authority ? Nowhere in Scripture does it say that all men live for ever. Indeed it suggests the opposite. Nor does it say that our resurrection bodies cannot be destroyed. Indeed it speaks of agelong destruction.

The wages of sin is DEATH, which means cessation of life. The soul that sins shall DIE. The unrighteous will go into agelong destruction. In the OT death is nothingness. It is modern man who has created the immortality of the soul based on Plato,