Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues

shrume · Jul 19, 2017

I'm sorry we don't seem able to agree. I believe I have proved it from scripture.

I believe the manifestations have been meant to be used since the first century.

I do believe that the knowledge (and power) of the manifestations had been mostly lost. I have mentioned before that the adversary does not want us to know what we have as Christians.

That is certainly your choice, wolf.

That's right, you can. I have never stated anything different.

If there was a doctrine of "2 class" Christianity, it would be false. You are constructing a false doctrine then declaring it false.

Wolf, I'm thankful you're a believer, and my brother in Christ. It's clear that we will not agree on this. So be it. I don't want to argue about it any more.

RickyZ · Jul 20, 2017

wolfwint said:

It does not divide Christians into classes, and anyone who tells you it does is wrong.

notuptome · Jul 20, 2017

If you are going to speak in tongues your tongues must reflect the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Each of the fruits of the Spirit are seen in the tongue.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

See the warning of James 3.

James 3:1 ¶ My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Not many can lay claim to being a perfect man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

shrume · Jul 20, 2017

notuptome said:

That sounds spiritual, Roger, but where is that in the Bible?

Wonderful verse! How exactly does that fit with your speaking derogatorially about people who speak in tongues?

A warning to be heeded, to be sure. But James was not talking about speaking in tongues. He was talking about things people say to each other. Witness the continual disagreements and arguments in so many of the threads on this forum. People calling each other names, each claiming the other "doesn't know the scriptures", etc. That's the kind of thing James was talking about.

Only one can do that: Jesus Christ.

wolfwint · Jul 20, 2017

RickyZ said:

Yes, it does. So long people boasting with thereach gift of speaking in tougues to have a closed relationship with our Father, they automatically say people who cant speak in tongues are not able to have the same relationship.
the OP Theme says: If you can speak in tongues and singing in tongues you have benefits. If not then not!
In my eyes a 2 class Christianity!

RickyZ · Jul 20, 2017

wolfwint said:

1 Corinthians 12:

1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[SUP]a[/SUP] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[SUP]b[/SUP] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. 12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[SUP]c[/SUP] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[SUP]d[/SUP] ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
Love Is Indispensable
And yet I will show you the most excellent way.

God gives the gifts as He pleases; to one tongues, to another wisdom, to another healing, etc. They are apportioned like the parts of the body, each with it's own separate purpose.

If one is second class because they do not speak in tongues, then one would also be second class if they do not receive healing? Also second class if God doesn't give them wisdom?

wolfwint · Jul 21, 2017

RickyZ said:

1 Corinthians 12:

1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[SUP]a[/SUP] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[SUP]b[/SUP] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. 12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[SUP]c[/SUP] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[SUP]d[/SUP] ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
Love Is Indispensable
And yet I will show you the most excellent way.

God gives the gifts as He pleases; to one tongues, to another wisdom, to another healing, etc. They are apportioned like the parts of the body, each with it's own separate purpose.

If one is second class because they do not speak in tongues, then one would also be second class if they do not receive healing? Also second class if God doesn't give them wisdom?

Ricky, I know the scripture! No other gift createt a different among christians! I was called not to be a real Christian, because I do not speak in tongues. Not the scripture is wrong, but the doctrines which were createt since Azusa Street Event are wrong. To speak in tongues is made to a sign for an real believer( baptism/empowering with the Holy Spirit as an extra experience), to speak in tongues is made to the Best way to worship and communicates with God. Speaking in tongues is became also a way of special prayer expieriences like healing. So long this is taught, it creates a" 2 class" Christianity.
I do not need to speak in tongues to have a close relationship with my Father! I do not need speak in tongues to be a real Christian! And I do not need to speak in tongues to expieriences special answer to my prayers.

wolfwint · Jul 21, 2017

shrume said:

Shrume, I agree with you. That we have different convictions about this topic, change not the fact that we are brothers in the Lord. And as Christians we have a more important task then to argue. Who finaly is right will be cleared from our Lord.
The Lord may bless you!
S

Kavik · Jul 21, 2017

This is sort of an aside to the discussion of 'tongues' proper - it has more to do with the list found in Acts 2 that many people use to evidence linguistic diversity at Pentecost. I had forgotten I wrote a bit on this and thought it would make for some interesting insight into the "list".....

In previous posts I alluded to the fact that the ‘list’ found in the Pentecostal narrative of Acts 2 was not a list of languages, but rather a list of nations and territories.

If the list is examined in detail, one discovers that it is specifically a list of the countries and lands of the Jewish Diaspora. There are actually two missing; Syria and Cyprus, but there may indeed be a reason for this seeming, not so obvious, ‘oversight’.

Since Diasporan Jews spoke either Greek or Aramaic (if from the Eastern or Western Diaspora respectively), the list was obviously not included in the narrative, as many suppose, to represent or hint towards any sort of linguistic diversity; there was none.

So, if this list of nations does not represent linguistic diversity (i.e. a diversity of ‘tongues’), why is it included in the narrative at all? What was the purpose of mentioning these various nations?

One of the more obvious answers, and certainly part of the reason, was to illustrate that the Jews present in Jerusalem for this particular Shavuot celebration were representative of “every nation under heaven”; well, okay, sort of – ‘every nation under heaven’ was an idiomatic expression simply meaning ‘from many places’. It was not something that was meant literally; obviously there were no Jews in Scythia, Gaul, Germania, Britannia, etc.).

One of the reasons to include the list therefore, was to show that the Jews gathered in Jerusalem represented the Jewish Nation as a whole (Diaspora included). On a more religious basis with respect to the spreading of the message of Christianity, the list may very well have also indicated that the first apostolic mission was to the Jewish nation as a whole (Diaspora included).

The obvious comeback here is that this is sort of a “Captain Obvious” comment, isn’t it? Of course there were going to be Jews from all over the Diaspora in Jerusalem for Shavuot! No Jew living in the first century needed a list to illustrate the point; it was common knowledge then just as it is for Shavuot celebrations in Jerusalem today – you got people from all over the place in attendance.

This seems then to allude to the notion that this list must have been included for some other reason, but what reason?

This exact question has led to some extensive research which, in turn, has led to one prevalent idea or concept.

It is particularly interesting to note, in light of this idea/concept, that the list starts with Parthia, includes Judea but excludes Syria, and ends with Rome.

The most prevalent school of thought by far is that the list was placed in the narrative for political reasons (with Syria purposely omitted, and the nations/territories listed in a specific order). Indeed, this list from Luke, as one writer puts it, “is anti-Roman political propaganda witch advocates kenotic politics at its finest.”

Expanding on this idea in great detail is a paper written by a Martin Hengel of Tübingen University.

Rather than try to paraphrase from them, I’ve included the links below so the reader may see them in their entirety:

the john 3:30 group: Luke’s List of Nations, Acts 2:9-13

https://www.ibr-bbr.org/files/bbr/BBR_2000_b_01_Hengel_IoudaiaGeography.pdf

Some interesting reading which, I think better represents the inclusion of this “list of nations” in the Pentecost narrative.

RickyZ · Jul 21, 2017

wolfwint said:

Ricky, I know the scripture! No other gift createt a different among christians! I was called not to be a real Christian, because I do not speak in tongues. Not the scripture is wrong, but the doctrines which were createt since Azusa Street Event are wrong. To speak in tongues is made to a sign for an real believer( baptism/empowering with the Holy Spirit as an extra experience), to speak in tongues is made to the Best way to worship and communicates with God. Speaking in tongues is became also a way of special prayer expieriences like healing. So long this is taught, it creates a" 2 class" Christianity.
I do not need to speak in tongues to have a close relationship with my Father! I do not need speak in tongues to be a real Christian! And I do not need to speak in tongues to expieriences special answer to my prayers.

Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but it seems as if we are agreeing here..?

wolfwint · Jul 21, 2017

RickyZ said:

Coffee is always good☺! I cant see that the above mentioned Azusa Street Event and the following doctrines about the Holy Spirit was from God. So I am not Shure we agree.

RickyZ · Jul 21, 2017

Let's just say we agree on this

I do not need to speak in tongues to have a close relationship with my Father! I do not need speak in tongues to be a real Christian! And I do not need to speak in tongues to experience special answer to my prayers.

1True · Aug 2, 2017

I sing in tongues during praise and worship , being before an audience of One.

Grace777x70 · Aug 2, 2017

1True said:

Me too. One time I was cleaning the kitchen ( Yes...it appears men can clean kitchens too.....please don't let this "secret" out...lol )

I was cleaning and singing in tongues to the Lord and I realized in my mind I was singing to the tune of "The Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald". I know being Canadian - you will recognize that song.

Anyway, my mind said " What in the world could I be singing about in that "tune"? "

Immediately what rose up in my spirit was this. "There are words that say - Does any one know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"

I instinctively knew that the Lord was saying that His love was there in the midst of that tragedy no matter what the natural mind of man sees. So, my spirit was singing about the love of God in all circumstances.

88 · Oct 31, 2017

88 said:

***Benefits of Speaking in Tongues/Stir the Gift---Bless Your Life ***Hope your are enjoying the benefits of speaking in tongues---if you are moving in this gift... I believe there will be a revival of this gift in the upcoming days---not that people are not speaking in tongues and being benefited/blessing God ---but I believe there will be more of a need to move in this power because of the increasing spiritual warfare*** (Joel 2:28, 29) as God pours out His Spirit there will be an increase in the prophetic, dreams, visions, and even tongues...

jaybird88 · Oct 31, 2017

what did graze777 get banned for?

joaniemarie · Oct 31, 2017

jaybird88 said:

He was too gracious maybe? I don't know what happened but he is a brother after my own heart. Once a Christian finds out about the grace of God in Christ., we can't help but see it in allll areas of our lives from the time we open our eyes in the morning till we go to sleep at night. Even then we dream about the grace of God IN Christ. The Holy Spirit keeps reminding us of Jesus and His righteousness by grace through faith to us.

Bruce lives the truth of Romans 8:10-17 better than most I know.

[h=1]Romans 8:1-17American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, [SUP][a][/SUP]in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of [SUP][b][/SUP]sinful flesh [SUP][c][/SUP]and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]that the [SUP][d][/SUP]ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]and they that are in the flesh cannot please God. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies [SUP][e][/SUP]through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh: [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the [SUP][f][/SUP]deeds of the body, ye shall live.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: [SUP]17 [/SUP]and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 31, 2017

This is where the problems and the divisions arise. The Pentecostal teaching that the proof of being filled with the Spirit was speaking in tongues created two classes of Christians -- (a) the superior Spirit-filled and (b) the inferior non-Spirit-filled. Since there are probably thousands of Christians who do not speak in tongues but are Spirit-filled, it is obvious that this doctrine brought division within the Body of Christ.

What we see in Scripture is a different evidence:

And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. (Acts 4:31)

For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth...And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. (Eph 5:9,18-21).

So, is the fear of God = being filled with the Spirit? Let's hear the conclusion of the matter:
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Eccl 12:13).

Enow · Oct 31, 2017

wolfwint said:

Although I agree with you that we are all brothers having His seal, I am not sure blessing someone when they are in unrepentant iniquity is a right thing to do.

2 John 1:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Is that not the same as saying "Do not bless him" ??

I consider shrume and other tongue speakers as my brothers and sisters still, but I really believe they are not abiding in the doctrines of Christ when they depart from the tradition taught of us that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel.

In shrume's case, he does not believe that one can receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation, BUT he indirectly supports the false teaching that all believers can speak in tongues because he believes all believers has the ability to speak in tongues when they heard the gospel and believed in Jesus Christ and are filled with the Spirit.

So like... non tongue speakers will believe they can manifest tongues and when it doesn't happen, and by the way shrume has said it, I had paraphrased him, then they will do what shrume told them not to do, and that is to seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from when they were saved, or when they had thought they were saved, after a sign of tongues for proof that they have the Holy Spirit. The brother, shrume, has led the groundwork for that to happen by his words. That is why he is not correcting every tongue speaker out there that connects Spirit baptism with tongues as proof of salvation, because it almost sounds the same thing as he is saying it, but not quite.

I believe modern tongue speakers today are preaching in one way or another to believers already saved to receive another spirit to receive after a sign of tongues apart from salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. That is an iniquity that denies Him and that calling is an apostate one for putting the spotlight on tongues for private use ( which cannot be of Him ) when tongues with interpretation is supposed to put the spotlight on the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ for our edification and worship.

Enow · Oct 31, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

Thank you for sharing verse 9 with that reference to testify that this is referring to remaining sober in verse 18, which temperance, a fruit of the Spirit, is self control, for how readers should read verse 18. Paul is not saying to avoid getting drunk with wine wherein there is excess, seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit supernaturally again and again and again. Paul is opposing a work of the flesh called drunkenness by that call to be sober .. to remain in self control... as filled with the Spirit by that fruit.

We, as believers, are always Spirit filled, even when sowing to the works of the flesh, but are setting aside the fruits of teh Spirit when they do that. The Holy Spirit is always there as filled in the believer, which is why we are told not to grieve the Holy Spirit by Whom we have been sealed unto that day of redemption; Ephesians 4:30.

As the Holy Spirit is in us and thus the Triune God is within us fully and always, we will be held accountable for what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit. If this false notion that a believer has to continually seek to be filled by the Person of the Holy Spirit supernaturally, then where is the accountability when sinful flesh looks greater than the Holy Spirit that one needs to be filled supernaturally in order to sow to the fruits of the Spirit in following Christ?

This is why always Spirit filled is a testimony that we are saved and why those whom had come to & believed in Jesus Christ do not hunger nor thirst any more when they got saved. To seek to be filled again and again denies the promise of eternal life.

Matthew 9:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. KJV

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