Why The Delay In Acts 8:5-24 To Be Saved?

[Enow]

In Acts 8th chapter where Philip was casting out unclean spirits and healing the lame, the Samaritans in that area were being afflicted by Simon the sorceror with unclean spirits and Simon was an infamous highly regarded man in the area.

Acts 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:[SUP]10 [/SUP]To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.[SUP]12[/SUP]But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

So when Philip came in and did those wonderful things, the people were bewildered into following Philip as Simon was doing, believing BUT "wondering" in the "things" Philip was preaching about, thus becoming fans of Philip instead of Simon now; hence the gall of bitterness that was in Simon for taking the spotlight of the people away from him. That was why Peter & John had to come. The promise of the Holy Spirit could not come from Philip because of this "fan mentality" he had inadvertently got going. So even when Simon saw that Peter & John were laying hands for the people to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit to be saved, he was still looking at the people doing these miracles as the Samaritans were, only Simon thought he could buy that power which goes to show the necessity for God to lift the people's sights higher to the Lord and not to Philip nor Peter & John.

That was the reason for the delay.

It should be noted that until they had received the Spirit of Christ, they were none of His and thus not saved yet.

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[BeyondET]

Interesting how Phillip cast out unclean spirits and healed the lame yet the baptism that Phillip preformed meant nothing or is this something else.

 

[samuel23]

That is a perplexing place in the bible, unique in that nothing like it or before it happened(though some falsely claim so). If we take the story for the exact way that it is presented then we have folks who believe in Jesus Christ and are converted(baptized) BUT NOT SAVED! I say that because the bible says that they had not received the Holy Spirit until Peter and John came down and lay hands on them and prayed for them. Because of the oddness of what occurred some have jumped on this place in the bible and have created a doctrine contrary to the entire rest of the NT, that we should receive the Holy Spirit twice. Their argument is that they received the Spirit when they believed and were water baptized and again later when Peter and John lay hands on them. Cults take one uncertain scripture and build a religion out of it, so we are not going to do that. Here is my opinion. The Samaritans were actually saved because the bible teaches that we are saved and receive the Spirit in the way they did. Remember, the Samaritans were unclean to the Jews, so it must have been a shock to the Jewish church in Jerusalem to hear that the Samaritans were saved so they sent Peter and John down to check it out. The church in Jerusalem needed a sign that they were actually saved so when Peter and John lay hands on them and prayed then the Lord FILLED them with the Spirit at that moment so that Peter and John saw the evidence of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Samaritans already had the Spirit but were not filled until Peter and John prayed for them. Sorry for the Pentecostal folks, but the rest of the NT does not teach that a believer should receive the Spirit twice.

 

[BeyondET]

That is a perplexing place in the bible, unique in that nothing like it or before it happened(though some falsely claim so). If we take the story for the exact way that it is presented then we have folks who believe in Jesus Christ and are converted(baptized) BUT NOT SAVED! I say that because the bible says that they had not received the Holy Spirit until Peter and John came down and lay hands on them and prayed for them. Because of the oddness of what occurred some have jumped on this place in the bible and have created a doctrine contrary to the entire rest of the NT, that we should receive the Holy Spirit twice. Their argument is that they received the Spirit when they believed and were water baptized and again later when Peter and John lay hands on them. Cults take one uncertain scripture and build a religion out of it, so we are not going to do that. Here is my opinion. The Samaritans were actually saved because the bible teaches that we are saved and receive the Spirit in the way they did. Remember, the Samaritans were unclean to the Jews, so it must have been a shock to the Jewish church in Jerusalem to hear that the Samaritans were saved so they sent Peter and John down to check it out. The church in Jerusalem needed a sign that they were actually saved so when Peter and John lay hands on them and prayed then the Lord FILLED them with the Spirit at that moment so that Peter and John saw the evidence of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Samaritans already had the Spirit but were not filled until Peter and John prayed for them. Sorry for the Pentecostal folks, but the rest of the NT does not teach that a believer should receive the Spirit twice.

Seems plausible, for some reason I'm thinking of the dove descend.

 

[popeye]

Yet another cunning anti Christ,anti HS thread.


Ooooo,oooo,looky,there was a gap between Jesus being baptized and the HS descending upon him.

Cue jeopardy tic tock music.

Was it a minute????
Was it an hour????

This has to be the smoking gun!!!

We don't really have to raise the dead,heal the sick,open blind eyes,cleanse lepers!!!!

Woooopeeee!!!!

Lets get dead right about this lazy pass we give the church!!!!

 

[Enow]

Interesting how Phillip cast out unclean spirits and healed the lame yet the baptism that Phillip preformed meant nothing or is this something else.

Water baptism is not the means by how a believer receives the promise at their salvation. It is by believing in Him in which case is the reason why Luke said that the Samaritans and Simon believed in the "things" that Philip was preaching in wonderment, but not exactly believing in Him as they were accrediting all the casting out of unclean spirits and healing the lame to Philip as Simon was.

Acts 8:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:[SUP]16 [/SUP](For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

They were not saved until they had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ; not by Philip, Peter, nor John.

 

[Enow]

That is a perplexing place in the bible, unique in that nothing like it or before it happened(though some falsely claim so). If we take the story for the exact way that it is presented then we have folks who believe in Jesus Christ and are converted(baptized) BUT NOT SAVED! I say that because the bible says that they had not received the Holy Spirit until Peter and John came down and lay hands on them and prayed for them. Because of the oddness of what occurred some have jumped on this place in the bible and have created a doctrine contrary to the entire rest of the NT, that we should receive the Holy Spirit twice. Their argument is that they received the Spirit when they believed and were water baptized and again later when Peter and John lay hands on them. Cults take one uncertain scripture and build a religion out of it, so we are not going to do that. Here is my opinion.

They sure do. No reports of tongues were given because they were all Samaritans; so no need to speak in tongues.

The Samaritans were actually saved because the bible teaches that we are saved and receive the Spirit in the way they did. Remember, the Samaritans were unclean to the Jews, so it must have been a shock to the Jewish church in Jerusalem to hear that the Samaritans were saved so they sent Peter and John down to check it out. The church in Jerusalem needed a sign that they were actually saved so when Peter and John lay hands on them and prayed then the Lord FILLED them with the Spirit at that moment so that Peter and John saw the evidence of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Samaritans already had the Spirit but were not filled until Peter and John prayed for them. Sorry for the Pentecostal folks, but the rest of the NT does not teach that a believer should receive the Spirit twice.

Jesus testified that no one can know when a born again of the Spirit takes place other than by believing in Jesus Christ. The Jews that believed In Him to repent and thus had received the Holy Spirit after water baptism. The Gentiles received the Holy Spirit after hearing the gospel in how one was saved by believing in Him to receive the remission of sins Peter had spoken about before water baptism.

So one has to wonder why Luke had written the way he had done because he did not testify that they believed in Jesus Christ personally, but they believed in the "things" that Philip was preaching about. The fact that Philip inadvertently got fan fare from t in stealing the spotlight from Simon goes to show that the Father was still leading them to the Son to reveal Him to them in a personal I believe in Him way because their eyes were set on Philip as it was on Simon; and Simon's focus was still on people on where this power was coming from that was "greater" than his by sorcery.

Thus indicative that their hearts as well as Simon's was not quite right with the Lord until their sights were lifted higher.

We know they were not saved yet until Peter & John came down to lay hands on them to receive the promise so that the fans of Philip would not credit Philip nor glorify Philip but the Lord Jesus Christ, but even then, Peter & John had to rebuke Simon for still being persistent in not realizing God at work here.

That was why Luke had written that they were only water baptized in Jesus's name, but had not received the Holy Spirit yet.

Acts 8:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:[SUP] 16 [/SUP](For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

So they were not saved until their sights were lifted off of Philip to the Lord in receiving the Holy Ghost just as Simon was not saved yet until his sights were still needing to be lifted away from even Peter & John to the Lord, and he repented by believing in Him to be saved.

When dealing with the supernatural, the Samaritans needed to see that this was the Lord's doing in casting out unclean spirits and healing the lame and especially, giving the promise of the Holy Spirit for personally believing in the Lord Jesus Christ; and not just the "things" about His kingdom and His name.

This was God reconciling them to Himself thru His Son by believing in Him, not by believing in the "things" about Him. I really believe the Lord was patient with this fanfare following Philip which was why Peter & John had to come so that the fanfare would end for their sights to be lifted higher in seeing this was the Lord's work; not Philip's.

 

[samuel23]

This is a tough place in scripture because there is no place else in the bible quite like it, I just gave my opinion as to what possibly could have occurred, I am not claiming that it has to be correct.

 

[Enow]

This is a tough place in scripture because there is no place else in the bible quite like it, I just gave my opinion as to what possibly could have occurred, I am not claiming that it has to be correct.

I understand, brother. I just pray that the Lord will continue to help us both in our walk with Him in understanding His words when we know that truth cannot go against truth and neither can scripture go against scripture.

So this hard place in scripture has to draw critical questions;

Why did Luke give the background on the Samaritans and their relations to Simon the scorceror?

Why didn't he just say they believed in Jesus Christ rather than report that they believed in the things Philip was preaching about when they got water baptized in His name AND yet Luke pointed out that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet?

What was the gall of bitterness that Simon was in when he was thinking he could buy this power of giving people the Holy Spirit?

All of these extra things that Luke reported about in regards to these people has explained to me anyway why the delay was there, because their sights were not on the Lord Jesus Christ but on Philip and in the case of Simon, still on people as he sought that power from Peter & John.

If you can imagine living in an area where a bully held in high regard because he was afflicting you & the community supernaturally with unclean spirits, and someone came along undoing that affliction as well as healing the lame, you would follow this guy to see and hear what he was about as he dd come preaching about God's Kingdom and the name of Jesus. You may even become grateful to him to be a fan and follower and be water baptized in Jesus's name but your eyes are still on Philip as you believed the things he spoken about. So when Peter & John had come down, they had taken your eyes off of Philip to the Lord Jesus Christ finally when you had received the promise of the Holy Ghost, but Simon was still shortsighted as that gall of bitterness exposed where his sight was still at; on the people by whom the miracles came from and not from the Lord. The rebuke from Peter & John finally lifted his sights higher as he had asked Peter & john to pray for him.

But they did not speak in tongues because they were all Samaritans and there was no need for that. Something tongue speakers overlooked.

In any event, this preaching of receiving the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with a sign of tongues cannot use that reference when Romans 8:9 testifies that they are not His and thus not saved until they had received Jesus Christ.

Even Jesus said that no one can know when the born again of the Spirit happens, but it happens when they COME to & believe IN Jesus Christ ( John 6:35 ). These Samaritans and Simon were coming to people for miracles, and so God had to lift their sights higher in coming to Him to be saved.