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Thread: Are you a son or a slave?

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    Default Are you a son or a slave?

    John 8

    31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

    - Are you a son or a slave?
    - If you continue in your sins you are a slave, and you won't abide in the house forever.
    - If the Son sets you free of this slavery, you are free indeed. Believe it. Then you are a son.
    - The Jews thought they were Abraham's descendants. Innocence by association. Jesus showed them above what it means to be a son. It means overcoming the bondages of the sinful walk. They, by living in sin, were not sons but slaves.
    - So too today --- are you by calling yourself a Christian, believe you have innocence by association? Well then, has the Son set you free indeed? Or are you still bound?

    1 John 3v4-6

    4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    I am a son of Father and a slave of Jesus Christ.

    Father made me be born from above and Christ bought me for a price.
    Let the brotherly love stay * Láska bratrská ať zůstává

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    I certainly am a son. And there are times when my mind wants to tell me otherwise and have me act accordingly. That's where renewing of the mind comes in.
    Earth awaken, all creation, open up your eyes again, alive again, for Christ has torn the veil of darkness away!
    Easter - Theocracy

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    John 8

    31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

    - Are you a son or a slave?
    - If you continue in your sins you are a slave, and you won't abide in the house forever.
    - If the Son sets you free of this slavery, you are free indeed. Believe it. Then you are a son.
    - The Jews thought they were Abraham's descendants. Innocence by association. Jesus showed them above what it means to be a son. It means overcoming the bondages of the sinful walk. They, by living in sin, were not sons but slaves.
    - So too today --- are you by calling yourself a Christian, believe you have innocence by association? Well then, has the Son set you free indeed? Or are you still bound?

    1 John 3v4-6

    4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
    Romans 6 says we are slaves of righteousness.

    18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    John 8

    31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

    - Are you a son or a slave?
    - If you continue in your sins you are a slave, and you won't abide in the house forever.
    - If the Son sets you free of this slavery, you are free indeed. Believe it. Then you are a son.
    - The Jews thought they were Abraham's descendants. Innocence by association. Jesus showed them above what it means to be a son. It means overcoming the bondages of the sinful walk. They, by living in sin, were not sons but slaves.
    - So too today --- are you by calling yourself a Christian, believe you have innocence by association? Well then, has the Son set you free indeed? Or are you still bound?

    1 John 3v4-6

    4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
    Note that this passage above was addressed to the Jews who believed Him....

    John 8
    30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

    To truly believe in Christ is to obey Christ. To truly believe in Christ is to cease sinning.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Romans 6 says we are slaves of righteousness.

    18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
    Amen !!!!!

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    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    I am not a servant of God but I am a son who serves in the Family business. We can make ourselves "bond-slaves" like Paul did but we need to understand exactly what that means or religion will deceive us into thinking something else.

    John 15:15 (KJV)
    15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

    Friends here in the Greek means "A loved one".
    dcontroversal and UnderGrace like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    The son does remain forever in the house.


    John 8:35-36 (NASB)
    35 "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

    36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

    Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

    Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
    26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

    Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
    6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

    7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


    1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
    1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

    If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.
    dcontroversal and UnderGrace like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Neither.... I'm a Daughter.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    John 8:35-36 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


    It is clear from John 8:36 that the "Son" referred to in verse 35 is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Son Who abides forever.


    John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


    We can hold this promise in our hearts as we wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to come again, and receive [us] unto [Himself] that where [He is,] there [we] may be also.
    Zmouth and Grace777x70 like this.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by reneweddaybyday View Post
    John 8:35-36 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


    It is clear from John 8:36 that the "Son" referred to in verse 35 is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Son Who abides forever.


    John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


    We can hold this promise in our hearts as we wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to come again, and receive [us] unto [Himself] that where [He is,] there [we] may be also.
    ^^^ you have just twisted scripture. Verse 36 is "Son". Verse 35 is "son". Not only that, it says "a son".
    Stephen63 likes this.

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    Romans 6 says we are slaves of righteousness.

    18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
    Amen....and we are SONS by faith and not one sin will ever change that....Salvation that must be kept, embellished and or that can be lost by works or sin is not biblical salvation........the same rhetoric posted on a different day with the same twist of the word to equate a working for dogma.........

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975
    Verse 35 is "son". Not only that, it says "a son".
    John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the [Gr. "ho"] Son abideth ever.

    According to Strong's, Greek "ho" = the, the definite article.

    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible:

    ". . . but the Son abideth ever: the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ will always continue as a Son in his own house, as the Lord and proprietor of it; and as an high priest over it, having an unchangeable priesthood; and as he that takes care of it, provides for it, and manages all the affairs thereof, the family in heaven and in earth being named of him. And as he, so all the adopted sons of God shall continue, being pillars in this house, that shall never go out: such are no more servants, nor foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God; and being sons, are heirs and shall never be cast out, as the bondwoman and her son have been: but these being the children of the free, shall for ever enjoy the inheritance they are adopted to; once sons, always so; the relation ever continues; they will ever remain in the family, and being entitled to the heavenly estate, shall ever possess it. . . ."


    Meyer's New Testament Commentary:

    ". . . ὁ υἱὸς μένει εἰς τ. αἰῶνα] namely, ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ,—also a general proposition or principle, but with an intentional application of the general expression ὁ υἱός to Christ, who, as the Son of God, retains for ever His position and power in the house of God, i.e. in the theocracy;[22] comp. Hebrews 3:5-6. From this μένει εἰς τ. αἰῶνα it follows (οὖν) that if He frees from the state of a bondsman, a real and not merely an apparent freedom commences, seeing that, on account of the perpetual continuance of His domestic rights in the theocracy, the emancipation effected by Him must have a real and finally valid result. This would not necessarily be the case if He remained merely for a time in the house; for as both His right and ἐξουσία would then lack certainty and permanence, so the freedom He procured would also lack the guarantee of reality. This line of argumentation presupposes, moreover, that the Father does not Himself directly act in the theocracy; He has entrusted to the Son the power and control. . . ."


    Bengel's Gnomen:

    ". . . ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ) in the house of the Father.—ὁ ὑιός) The Son, the only-begotten. Comp. ver. following, “If the Son shall make you free,” etc. The article here has a greater force, than in the antithetic words, ὁ δοῦλος.—μένει, abideth) in the house. The allusion is, inasmuch as the question is concerning Abraham, to Genesis 21:10, “Sarah said to Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son—Hagar and Ishmael—for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son—Isaac;” Genesis 25:5, “Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac:” comp. Galatians 4:22, etc., “He who was of the bondwoman, was born after the flesh, but he of the free woman was by promise, which things are an allegory,” etc. . . ."


    Pulpit Commentary:

    ". . . But the son abideth forever. Sonship is the only principle on which continuance in the house can be secured. It has been much debated whether the ὁ υἱός of the thirty-fifth verse goes beyond the idea of sonship, the generic antithesis to the idea of slave. Certainly this seems the primary reference. In the following verse, the Son, in his loftiest functions, and as identifying himself with "the truth" of ver. 32, entirely fulfils the conception of "Sonship" and eternal abiding in the Father's house, and therefore is entrusted with the power of emancipating all slaves, of adopting sons into the Father's royal house. Thus we may suppose that the first use of the term "son," though laying special emphasis on the spirit and conditions of sonship, yet points to him who entirely embodies, enshrines, and has from before all worlds realized the Divine idea of Son - the only begotten Son - in the bosom of the Father. . . ."



    John 8:35 Commentaries: "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
    Grace777x70 likes this.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by reneweddaybyday View Post

    John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the [Gr. "ho"] Son abideth ever.

    According to Strong's, Greek "ho" = the, the definite article.

    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible:

    ". . . but the Son abideth ever: the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ will always continue as a Son in his own house, as the Lord and proprietor of it; and as an high priest over it, having an unchangeable priesthood; and as he that takes care of it, provides for it, and manages all the affairs thereof, the family in heaven and in earth being named of him. And as he, so all the adopted sons of God shall continue, being pillars in this house, that shall never go out: such are no more servants, nor foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God; and being sons, are heirs and shall never be cast out, as the bondwoman and her son have been: but these being the children of the free, shall for ever enjoy the inheritance they are adopted to; once sons, always so; the relation ever continues; they will ever remain in the family, and being entitled to the heavenly estate, shall ever possess it. . . ."


    Meyer's New Testament Commentary:

    ". . . ὁ υἱὸς μένει εἰς τ. αἰῶνα] namely, ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ,—also a general proposition or principle, but with an intentional application of the general expression ὁ υἱός to Christ, who, as the Son of God, retains for ever His position and power in the house of God, i.e. in the theocracy;[22] comp. Hebrews 3:5-6. From this μένει εἰς τ. αἰῶνα it follows (οὖν) that if He frees from the state of a bondsman, a real and not merely an apparent freedom commences, seeing that, on account of the perpetual continuance of His domestic rights in the theocracy, the emancipation effected by Him must have a real and finally valid result. This would not necessarily be the case if He remained merely for a time in the house; for as both His right and ἐξουσία would then lack certainty and permanence, so the freedom He procured would also lack the guarantee of reality. This line of argumentation presupposes, moreover, that the Father does not Himself directly act in the theocracy; He has entrusted to the Son the power and control. . . ."


    Bengel's Gnomen:

    ". . . ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ) in the house of the Father.—ὁ ὑιός) The Son, the only-begotten. Comp. ver. following, “If the Son shall make you free,” etc. The article here has a greater force, than in the antithetic words, ὁ δοῦλος.—μένει, abideth) in the house. The allusion is, inasmuch as the question is concerning Abraham, to Genesis 21:10, “Sarah said to Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son—Hagar and Ishmael—for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son—Isaac;” Genesis 25:5, “Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac:” comp. Galatians 4:22, etc., “He who was of the bondwoman, was born after the flesh, but he of the free woman was by promise, which things are an allegory,” etc. . . ."


    Pulpit Commentary:

    ". . . But the son abideth forever. Sonship is the only principle on which continuance in the house can be secured. It has been much debated whether the ὁ υἱός of the thirty-fifth verse goes beyond the idea of sonship, the generic antithesis to the idea of slave. Certainly this seems the primary reference. In the following verse, the Son, in his loftiest functions, and as identifying himself with "the truth" of ver. 32, entirely fulfils the conception of "Sonship" and eternal abiding in the Father's house, and therefore is entrusted with the power of emancipating all slaves, of adopting sons into the Father's royal house. Thus we may suppose that the first use of the term "son," though laying special emphasis on the spirit and conditions of sonship, yet points to him who entirely embodies, enshrines, and has from before all worlds realized the Divine idea of Son - the only begotten Son - in the bosom of the Father. . . ."



    John 8:35 Commentaries: "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
    ^^ why do you lie to yourself? Instead of taking it plainly for what it is?

    1. He was talking to Jewish believers who called themselves "descendants of Abraham", i.e. sons of Abraham.
    2. They say that they were never in bondage
    3. Jesus helps them define what a slave is (bondage). This is one who commits sin.
    4. Jesus then says the only way to overcome sin, is through the "Son", i.e. himself.
    5. Only these who are set free are called "sons". For a freed man is not a slave.

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    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    How does one get free? From believing in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. By believing that all our sins are forgiven.

    Here is Paul preaching the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ to the religious Jews of his day - good living moral Jews who needed to be "obedient to the faith" and believe in what Christ has already done and not in their own self-efforts to create or maintain righteousness.

    Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
    38 "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

    39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

    It's time for all to "Repent and believe in the gospel" Just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1975 View Post
    ^^ why do you lie to yourself? Instead of taking it plainly for what it is?

    1. He was talking to Jewish believers who called themselves "descendants of Abraham", i.e. sons of Abraham.
    2. They say that they were never in bondage
    3. Jesus helps them define what a slave is (bondage). This is one who commits sin.
    4. Jesus then says the only way to overcome sin, is through the "Son", i.e. himself.
    5. Only these who are set free are called "sons". For a freed man is not a slave.
    Are you a son of God?
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Romans 8
    12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

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    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Originally Posted by Chris1975

    ^^ why do you lie to yourself? Instead of taking it plainly for what it is?

    1. He was talking to Jewish believers who called themselves "descendants of Abraham", i.e. sons of Abraham.
    2. They say that they were never in bondage
    3. Jesus helps them define what a slave is (bondage). This is one who commits sin.
    4. Jesus then says the only way to overcome sin, is through the "Son", i.e. himself.
    5. Only these who are set free are called "sons". For a freed man is not a slave.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Are you a son of God?

    bump.....???
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris1975
    ^^ why do you lie to yourself? Instead of taking it plainly for what it is?
    I showed you that Jesus was talking about "the" Son.

    John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the [Gr. "ho"] Son abideth ever.

    The Greek word "ho" is in the verse. "Ho" means "the, the definite article".

    Jesus Christ is the Son Who abides forever. And the Son makes free indeed.

    The title of your thread should be disciples of the Son or servants of sin, because Jesus is speaking of those who continue in His Word are disciples (vs 31) and the disciples shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free (vs 32).

    The answer to that by some who heard was that they were Abraham's seed and never in bondage and questioned why they would need to be made free (vs 33).

    Jesus replied stating that those who commit sin are servants of sin (vs 34). And servants do not abide in the house forever but the Son (He Himself) abides forever (vs 35). If the Son makes you free, then you are free indeed (vs 36).

    Verse 36 is a reiteration of verse 32 concerning the truth which makes the disciple (the one who continues in His Word.

    Jesus is the Son Who makes free and Jesus is the Truth Who makes free.
    dcontroversal and Grace777x70 like this.

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    Default Re: Are you a son or a slave?

    I am the person that I am.
    M & M's melt in your mouth and not in your hands.

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    By resurrection33 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: June 22nd, 2010, 10:49 AM