Your Past, Your Shame, and Your Peace
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I am asserting what John taught. You are asserting John is wrong. It is more than obvious who is opposed to the truth.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
You are the one arguing in favour of ongoing sin, not me.
The Bible argues in favour of righteousness, not sinning.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
You are the one arguing in favour of ongoing sin, not me.
The Bible argues in favour of righteousness, not sinning.
Is that how it would work in a marriage where the husband engaged in adultery Each day?
A fresh start each day where the wife doesn't keep dcore?
That is so foolish. Reconciliation is based off the faithfulness of BOTH parties, not just one. The rebellion to God has to stop. It stops in repentance once and for all.
A fresh start each day where the wife doesn't keep dcore?
That is so foolish. Reconciliation is based off the faithfulness of BOTH parties, not just one. The rebellion to God has to stop. It stops in repentance once and for all.
I was was trying to make a point that we can sin unknown and you say that if we sin it's off the devil and we are children of the devil.
Accidentally sinning in the eyes of God is no,different from sinning intentionally.
As for fonication there is no pass.
I am honest that's why I,m responding and trying to engage.
Oh by the way did I call you foolish?
If so please let me know and I will apologise.
Just so,you know I do believe the bible is all.
Accidentally sinning in the eyes of God is no,different from sinning intentionally.
As for fonication there is no pass.
I am honest that's why I,m responding and trying to engage.
Oh by the way did I call you foolish?
If so please let me know and I will apologise.
Just so,you know I do believe the bible is all.
No I am not, it's you asserting.
Anyway I'm not going to argue with you as there is no point.
Just so you know.
I believe Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again.
He died for my sin.
I have placed my faith in him.
I want to be like him and walk as he asked me to.
I get it wrong.
I come before him, confess it to him and ask for help.
I can't do it in my own strength.
I can't be like Jesus unless he helps me.
What about you?
Anyway I'm not going to argue with you as there is no point.
Just so you know.
I believe Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again.
He died for my sin.
I have placed my faith in him.
I want to be like him and walk as he asked me to.
I get it wrong.
I come before him, confess it to him and ask for help.
I can't do it in my own strength.
I can't be like Jesus unless he helps me.
What about you?
A sin of ignorance is very different to one of intent. Here is what the Bible teaches...
Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth oughtpresumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Then in the NT we find...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
By refusing to make the distinction you are attempting to give a pass for willful sin.
There is ZERO willful sin in the life of the genuine Christian. Love works no ill.
He that sins is of the devil and those born of God do not commit sin. That is what the scripture very plainly teaches. If you don't believe that then you don't believe the Bible.
We are continually called to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. If a man "lusteth" after a woman he has sinned just as if he committed the very act of sexual sin because God looks upon the heart. The change is much MORE than the outward issues of sin as it is about the inward spirit man being in control and not the flesh when tempted to sin. To give honor to the flesh for being so "in control" is a bit silly.
The Christian who is boasting about how he is not sinning on the outside is sinning since he is boasting and taking credit for his "not sinning" instead of giving honor where honor is due., to Jesus Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith. If we do anything worthy of good it's because of the Holy Spirit working in and through us by changing us from the inside out. The spirit man taking over while being directed by the Spirit where the natural man left off following all he knew., the lust of the flesh and pride of life.
We grow to understand it's the Holy Spirit (God) who works in us to think and do of His good pleasure. It's about how we are changed from glory to glory by being in the presence of Jesus and getting a mind like His and not like the world the flesh and the devil. It's about changing into something different than what we once were thinking from our fleshly mind all the time. We are learning to live in Spirit and in truth., a new and living way.
The seed that lives in us now is the spiritual one and not the Adamic one we were born into. We have been born again and are growing into that new man. We don't need a flesh make-over. We have a totally new and living way to go. When we follow the Spirit we will not fulfill the sinful desires of the flesh. That having more to do with the mind and soul of a person. You can do all the right things but have a stinking motivation although the people all around you may think you are terrific. They don't see the heart where all the motives are hidden that God sees clearly.
And.... Thankfully God forgives us completely in Christ based on His knowledge of our sin., not ours since we don't even know the depths that sin motivations in the flesh until the Holy Spirit begins to show us Jesus the Perfect One. And then as we see who we are in Christ (and not in our flesh) we know there is no condemnation "to those who are in Christ Jesus" so we can truly find the way out of our struggles with sin because we are no longer condemned. It's the love of God that constrains us., not the anger or fear of God. We are sons and therefor in the Beloved forgiven and loved.
What an amazing process!! Only God could have conceived such a strategy called "grace"
I wasn't talking about any of that. Why change the subject?
The subject in question is this...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
I quoted those verses and asserted the truth of those verses and you took issue.
A genuine Christian has had their heart purified and a pure heart does not produce iniquity. Love does not work ill, faith works by love, which is why love establishes the law (Rom 3:31). A genuine Christian abides in love and therefore does not commit sin.
this is very simple stuff.
The subject in question is this...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
I quoted those verses and asserted the truth of those verses and you took issue.
A genuine Christian has had their heart purified and a pure heart does not produce iniquity. Love does not work ill, faith works by love, which is why love establishes the law (Rom 3:31). A genuine Christian abides in love and therefore does not commit sin.
this is very simple stuff.
No I am not.
Actually of you knew me and look up my posts on other forums then you would know I'm not a greasy gracer. As you assume.
But I'm a realist.
Love works no ill.
Not much love in your posts just ill.
Anyway it seems that you and I will not agree and will probably angst each other.
That I don't want.
God bless you.
Bill
Actually of you knew me and look up my posts on other forums then you would know I'm not a greasy gracer. As you assume.
But I'm a realist.
Love works no ill.
Not much love in your posts just ill.
Anyway it seems that you and I will not agree and will probably angst each other.
That I don't want.
God bless you.
Bill
Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.
Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.
Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.
Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.
Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.
Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.
The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.
This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9
There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.
Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.
Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.
Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.
Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.
Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.
The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.
This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9
There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.
Grace777.,Tried to give you a rep but it wouldn't let me. I would have given you reps for both your posts. Excellent topic and excellent answers. If we don't read the Word with the Holy Spirit teaching us., we can be just like any unsaved person trying to make sense of words only the Holy Spirit can make alive to and in us.
Thank you.
The truth is that we Christians are vehemently against all forms of sinning.
Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.
I don't see any difference in sinning by living a homosexual lifestyle to having malice, bitterness, having outbursts of anger, being deceitful, being jealous and envious and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. All of these, as well as all the works of the flesh bring about death to us in this life. They are contrary to the life off Christ in us now.
Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )
Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.
We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.
It reveals the true heart of our loving Father and Lord to show others in this hurt and dying world their love and grace towards them.
Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!
Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh".
This "lose your salvation" false doctrine which discourages believers and brings fear and hopelessness to them as they struggle in the flesh with some things.
This causes them to have their faith ship-wrecked because they feel condemned and don't know how to walk by the spirit yet nor are they taught the gospel of the grace of God in Christ properly in order to grow up in Him.
Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.
The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus as in a mirror. We see all the goodness that He has already done for us and we also see ourselves in Him as one spirit with the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.
He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.
As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.
The truth is that we Christians are vehemently against all forms of sinning.
Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.
I don't see any difference in sinning by living a homosexual lifestyle to having malice, bitterness, having outbursts of anger, being deceitful, being jealous and envious and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. All of these, as well as all the works of the flesh bring about death to us in this life. They are contrary to the life off Christ in us now.
Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )
Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.
We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.
It reveals the true heart of our loving Father and Lord to show others in this hurt and dying world their love and grace towards them.
Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!
Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh".
This "lose your salvation" false doctrine which discourages believers and brings fear and hopelessness to them as they struggle in the flesh with some things.
This causes them to have their faith ship-wrecked because they feel condemned and don't know how to walk by the spirit yet nor are they taught the gospel of the grace of God in Christ properly in order to grow up in Him.
Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.
The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus as in a mirror. We see all the goodness that He has already done for us and we also see ourselves in Him as one spirit with the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.
He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.
As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.
Hebrews doesn't say that. You just made that up. You just don't believe what the Bible actually states so you try and twist it to mean something else.
Hebrews 10:26 means exactly what it says...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Jesus sacrifice is to redeem (set free) us from all iniquity and to make us pure (Tit 2:14). Therefore for anyone who is sanctified by the blood and made a partaker of the Holy Ghost (Heb10:29), for them to willfully sin voids the cleansing they recieved thus no sacrifice remains.
The text means EXACTLY what it says. You can't be cleansed of all sin (1Joh 1:7) and then go and keep sinning and still be clean. That is like jumping back in the mud pit after taking a shower, the cleansing of the shower no longer remains.
You just want a savation doctrine in which you can keep serving sin. You just want a sin cloak, not a purging and purifying.
The children of God are MANIFEST in that they do not commit sin.
very simple stuff.
John's words are true.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Hebrews 10:26 means exactly what it says...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Jesus sacrifice is to redeem (set free) us from all iniquity and to make us pure (Tit 2:14). Therefore for anyone who is sanctified by the blood and made a partaker of the Holy Ghost (Heb10:29), for them to willfully sin voids the cleansing they recieved thus no sacrifice remains.
The text means EXACTLY what it says. You can't be cleansed of all sin (1Joh 1:7) and then go and keep sinning and still be clean. That is like jumping back in the mud pit after taking a shower, the cleansing of the shower no longer remains.
You just want a savation doctrine in which you can keep serving sin. You just want a sin cloak, not a purging and purifying.
The children of God are MANIFEST in that they do not commit sin.
very simple stuff.
John's words are true.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
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So, this shows that your own "interpretation" reveals you are a child of the devil because you too still sin from time to time. Your own religion condemns you.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Jesus is keeping us from the evil one in our new creation in Christ.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This verse in 1 John 5:18 says the same thing basically as 1 John 3:9...it says that the one born of God cannot sin. I don't believe the new creation in Christ can sin as 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 speaks about.
It is definitely in the present tense which means "doing a sin now". Present tense is always present tense. Whether it is one sin or a thousand sins. I don't believe the new creation in Christ where Christ dwells can be contaminated or touched by sin.
What happens to our spirit where Christ is joined as one with us when we sin if the theory that sin can reach our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness. Do we go in and out of righteousness because it is NOT our righteousness but Christ's alone?
Let's say we sinned ( and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so this could mean any type of sin ) and then we die in a car crash just after we got angry at someone and called them a name ( which Jesus says is a sin in Matt 5:22 ) - we have lost righteousness and thus not able to go to heaven?
There are so many problems when you really stop to ponder the ramifications with the theory that we lose our righteousness because sin touches the inner man in Christ.
We can sin by yielding our members in our flesh if we yield to it and we are responsible with what we do in our bodies.
Paul said that by the spirit we put to death "the deeds of the body". Rom. 8:13
Let's be teaching people how to walk by the spirit so that we will not be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Jesus is keeping us from the evil one in our new creation in Christ.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This verse in 1 John 5:18 says the same thing basically as 1 John 3:9...it says that the one born of God cannot sin. I don't believe the new creation in Christ can sin as 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 speaks about.
It is definitely in the present tense which means "doing a sin now". Present tense is always present tense. Whether it is one sin or a thousand sins. I don't believe the new creation in Christ where Christ dwells can be contaminated or touched by sin.
What happens to our spirit where Christ is joined as one with us when we sin if the theory that sin can reach our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness. Do we go in and out of righteousness because it is NOT our righteousness but Christ's alone?
Let's say we sinned ( and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so this could mean any type of sin ) and then we die in a car crash just after we got angry at someone and called them a name ( which Jesus says is a sin in Matt 5:22 ) - we have lost righteousness and thus not able to go to heaven?
There are so many problems when you really stop to ponder the ramifications with the theory that we lose our righteousness because sin touches the inner man in Christ.
We can sin by yielding our members in our flesh if we yield to it and we are responsible with what we do in our bodies.
Paul said that by the spirit we put to death "the deeds of the body". Rom. 8:13
Let's be teaching people how to walk by the spirit so that we will not be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
You want me to be still sinning because you uphold a salvation in which the sin never stops. You are just making an accusation without substance.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of being a sinner and denied the obvious truth which was right in front of them.
John means what he says...
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Whosever abides in Jesus Christ sins not. That is a truth that you do not believe.
John even associates the "sinning not" with "doing righteousness" to make it vlear he is speaking about MANIFEST action.
The children of God are MANIFEST in that they DO NOT SIN.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
How much clearer could John be?
Paul taught that we are slaves to whom we ober...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The children of God "obey unto righteousness" which is why they are MANIFEST in that they do not commit sin but instead DO what is right.
It is all very simple and straitforward. If you were not an advocate for sin you would not have issue with my words, nor issue with the plain meaning of these scriptures I have quoted.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of being a sinner and denied the obvious truth which was right in front of them.
John means what he says...
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Whosever abides in Jesus Christ sins not. That is a truth that you do not believe.
John even associates the "sinning not" with "doing righteousness" to make it vlear he is speaking about MANIFEST action.
The children of God are MANIFEST in that they DO NOT SIN.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
How much clearer could John be?
Paul taught that we are slaves to whom we ober...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The children of God "obey unto righteousness" which is why they are MANIFEST in that they do not commit sin but instead DO what is right.
It is all very simple and straitforward. If you were not an advocate for sin you would not have issue with my words, nor issue with the plain meaning of these scriptures I have quoted.
I'm inclined to agree with skinski7, but I'm not all in.
I've prayed for knowledge on this, read the bible, prayed some more, and have to throw off bad notions coming out of the years I have spent sitting in church.
The problem is we are looking at sin as a violation of an ordnance. We see repentance as an apology. We also see grace as a gift, showered upon us.
Sin would better be defined as separation from God. Repentance would be better defined as reconciliation to God. Grace, salvation, forgiveness, is a gift, for everyone, that is nailed to the Cross.
At some point we have to get off our butt, and go to God and receive our gift.
This clicked with me while reading Hosea.
Hoseas wife left him. Hosea gave all he had to buy her back, but even though he did, she still had to be willing to go back home with him.
God gave up his very best to buy us back, we still have to go with him.
Sure, certain wrongs are listed and enumerated in the bible, like stealing and adultery. Even if they weren't listed, it would still be something that separates us from God.
At some point, we will have to do a u-turn and start heading back to God.
Ain't no way anyone can seriously think that they can be a thief or adulterer, say "forgive me Lord" and keep on stealing and chasing strange. No way God is cool with that.
I've prayed for knowledge on this, read the bible, prayed some more, and have to throw off bad notions coming out of the years I have spent sitting in church.
The problem is we are looking at sin as a violation of an ordnance. We see repentance as an apology. We also see grace as a gift, showered upon us.
Sin would better be defined as separation from God. Repentance would be better defined as reconciliation to God. Grace, salvation, forgiveness, is a gift, for everyone, that is nailed to the Cross.
At some point we have to get off our butt, and go to God and receive our gift.
This clicked with me while reading Hosea.
Hoseas wife left him. Hosea gave all he had to buy her back, but even though he did, she still had to be willing to go back home with him.
God gave up his very best to buy us back, we still have to go with him.
Sure, certain wrongs are listed and enumerated in the bible, like stealing and adultery. Even if they weren't listed, it would still be something that separates us from God.
At some point, we will have to do a u-turn and start heading back to God.
Ain't no way anyone can seriously think that they can be a thief or adulterer, say "forgive me Lord" and keep on stealing and chasing strange. No way God is cool with that.
believe that "sin" - the noun - not having dominion over us ( Rom. 6:14 ) is referring to the sin that is in the flesh not having dominion because we are in the spirit in Christ and not in the flesh.
I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin - the noun ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.
I too believe that the more we get a revelation that we are not in the flesh but really in the spirit because the real us is in Christ - the new creation - then "the influence" of sin loses it's power because of walking by the Spirit which is all based on the grace of Christ alone.
It's the influence of sin in our flesh that deceives us into doing the action of sinning. That is what I see in "sin shall not have dominion over us".
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
The flesh ( which are the ways and old habits of getting things from the world instead of through faith in Christ ) and the law/principle of sin ( Romans 7:23 ) work together in cohoots.
They know what works on us individually. For example: If in the past we are trying in our own fleshly ways to get love by having sex with others. Then the power of sin will inflame that desire in us to be with other people.
If we have a problem with pride - then the power of sin will use that to influence us to think that we are the beginning and end of all things...
If we think lowly of ourselves then the power of sin will use that to say we are worthless.
Each of us have our own unique fleshly ways of trying to find life from the world's belief system instead of through Christ's life that is in us. This brings death but walking by the spirit brings life and peace through the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work alone.
I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin - the noun ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.
I too believe that the more we get a revelation that we are not in the flesh but really in the spirit because the real us is in Christ - the new creation - then "the influence" of sin loses it's power because of walking by the Spirit which is all based on the grace of Christ alone.
It's the influence of sin in our flesh that deceives us into doing the action of sinning. That is what I see in "sin shall not have dominion over us".
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
The flesh ( which are the ways and old habits of getting things from the world instead of through faith in Christ ) and the law/principle of sin ( Romans 7:23 ) work together in cohoots.
They know what works on us individually. For example: If in the past we are trying in our own fleshly ways to get love by having sex with others. Then the power of sin will inflame that desire in us to be with other people.
If we have a problem with pride - then the power of sin will use that to influence us to think that we are the beginning and end of all things...
If we think lowly of ourselves then the power of sin will use that to say we are worthless.Each of us have our own unique fleshly ways of trying to find life from the world's belief system instead of through Christ's life that is in us. This brings death but walking by the spirit brings life and peace through the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work alone.
This should help to know the difference between"sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.
In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".
Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.
This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.
We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do and not including things like outbursts of anger, malice, slandering others in the body of Christ, causing strife and divisions..etc.
Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.
There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.
Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".
Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.
"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "
Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.
The set free from sin (the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.
The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".
Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13
As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".
Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.
This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.
We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do and not including things like outbursts of anger, malice, slandering others in the body of Christ, causing strife and divisions..etc.
Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.
There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.
Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".
Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.
"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "
Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.
The set free from sin (the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.
The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".
Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13
As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )