Your Past, Your Shame, and Your Peace

joaniemarie · Jun 19, 2017

Normally I won't post in a thread like this. But I'm sorry, I'm going to be bluntly honest. This post is such a lie from the enemy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

From the time I was saved and began hearing the Word of God preached in a good and solid Baptist church., this verse was one of the very first we memorized 1John 1:9 We were taught that this is a verse for the believer and one that we could count on and find solace in. This interpretation was and is so established by so many good and godly preachers including our pastor.

But it always caused me trouble because it caused a separation from God that I needed to fix and at times was not able to. What if I was not reeeeally sorry the way I should be when communion time came in church? Was I just saying sorry so I could take communion in front of everyone so to save face? What was my heart attitude here? And if I didn't have my own heart in gear at that time, how can I go to God? So I was shut out from God by my own issues and had to work them out first before coming to God and asking for forgiveness.

We all need to continue to confess our sins because we need a daily cleansing and forgiveness from our Heavenly Father. He is faithful to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The problem I had with this was one I asked God about "but Lord. you said there is therefore now no condemnation and that I was forgiven as far as the east is from the west so far have You taken my sin and it's been buried in the deepest ocean? So., did You go back and remember them again? Do I need to go back to the sins I already asked forgiveness about but didn't totally get rid of yet because those sins are causing these new sins today? Do I need to keep feeling guilty for the sins I already confessed? If so., how can I be sure You have forgiven me when I come to the throne of grace again? Are You getting sick of seeing me confessing that same sin again and again?"

The guilt began causing shame for coming again and again for the same sin. I had begun a pattern of needing to hide from God., not come to Him but hide from Him in shame and guilt and misery for my own weaknesses.

Because Jesus has made full atonement for our sins, God lovingly restores His children and abundantly pours out his mercy and compassion on the repentant heart of the believer.

This I later found was done 100% at the time of my salvation. OH HAPPY DAY!!!! Either Jesus made full atonement for my sins or He didn't. Either Jesus restores me because I can't restore myself or He didn't. Either His love and grace were poured out for me at the time I was accepted in the beloved or it wasn't. There is no sin separating me from God because Jesus has answered my sin problem so I can always come to the Father and find grace and help in time of need. I am free from condemnation and guilt. I have been given the gift of no condemnation in Christ. My sins are forgiven once for all as far as the east is from the west. It's done.

To not repent, the believer ends up reinforcing and building up a wall of separation between themselves and God. And a heap load of guilt ensues because of their lack of confessing to their Heavenly Father.

This only happens when we are depending on our confession to give us the right standing before Him. Our confession is not always a right one. Our minds are not always correct or perfect in their interpretations. That is why when we are depending on the righteousness of Christ and not our own righteousness we can go forward at all times.

That is why that verse is not for the believer "....and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" We have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and given a righteous standing IN Christ and are now IN the beloved. There is no guilt or shame left for us to deal with now. There is no confession that can heal us from our sin and guilt issue. It is Christ and Him alone that delivers us from the pits of sin and guilt and shame and condemnation. Not our confession.

What you're claiming as freedom from guilt will only strengthen their guilt. The cleansing through confession releases us from guilt.

Freedom from guilt is one of the gifts Jesus died to give us and it is about grace. Guilt is not and should not be a part of the believers life. We will be learning to walk in newness of life and to do that we are to reaffirm the fact that Jesus has made us new creations in Him.

We are not to pull up the dead carcass of the old man with his sin nature. We have been delivered from that and now are to recon ourselves dead to it and alive to Christ. The old habits and issues that were once ours to deal with have been dealt with by Jesus on the cross. It's time for us to by faith work out our own salvation... work out what Jesus has put in us. We are not in a civil war with ourselves anymore. Jesus demolished that issue. Now we need to recon it done and walk in Him. Oh what a happy day when I found this truth out.

We are fully justified and there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ. That is our standing as a believer in Christ.

However, when we sin, it displeases God our Father and because He is righteous - He chastens those He loves when they sin.

Sin will cause us to be stuck and going no where. Sin will keep us from going to God and that doesn't please God because it's not trusting Him. It's instead trusting ourselves to get what we need and want. God is never displeased with us. Why? because we are now sons. He is always seeing us in right standing before Him because He sees us IN Christ.

No sin can separate us from the love of God IN Christ. That is what gives us the ability to go to Him. It's the love of God that constrains us not the anger of God. When we are secure in our standing we will begin to walk that out daily. Sin will not hold our attention the way it did before because we are beginning to walk in the spirit and not the flesh. We are doing what the Bible tells us to do now. When we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Even looking at healthy families shows us how the love of parents cause the child to be well balanced in life. The child learns to be secure in the love of the parents and their approval is there because their love doesn't depend on the child's behavior. The child recognizes this. The parent's love is always there for the child and so that gives the child the security to be himself in situations in life where others who were not shown love in a family would be insecure and uncertain in life and around people.

To say that sin doesn't do anything is a bold lie. The difference is that we no longer have an angry judge, but we have a merciful Father instead whose love and compassion forgives us our sins.

The truth is the Father is always (not) the judge anymore for us. He is always merciful and compassionate. He is never going to deal with us according to our sins anymore. (there is a verse about that too) Jesus has solved the sin issue for us. The Father is always accepting of us and always shows compassion. When we sin we cause our own issues. God isn't zapping us when we sin. He doesn't have to because sin has it's own "rewards"

We deal with the world, the flesh and the devil and that is enough. God doesn't cause repercussions of our sin because He already gave us the needed remedy for sin. The accuser of the brethren is the one who reminds us of sin. Not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reminds us of who we are IN Christ and for us to act accordingly. He has much better and higher plans for us.

Those whom the Lord loves He disciplines and He scourges every Son he receives. Hebrews 12:6. He does this because He loves us. It not only helps to rid sin from our life, but it also confirms that we are truly His child and He is truly our Father.

That verse needs to be seen in light of the other Scriptures. Jesus is now our Good Shepherd and He was already "scourged" He is not going to "scourge" us. When we are chastened, it is by being led through the Word. The Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to show us the way to go. We are not beat by the rod of the Good Shepherd. His rod and His staff they lead and guide and comfort us. The Good Shepherd never breaks the legs of the sheep as some have said.

"The Lord is my Shepherd He breaketh my legs" NO. The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want. We have the Holy Spirit and He remind us of our standing. When we see the goodness and "love of God THAT is what leads us to repentance". And the Holy Spirit points us to Christ at all times not to us and our sin and the shame. That is what the devil does. he is the accuser of the brethren. The Holy Spirit always points to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith. No condemnation.

It's such a beautiful way that the Lord has set things up for us His children. His love causes us to change., We are no longer fearful of judgment but we are changing because of the grace shown to us. It is the grace of God that teaches us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts... how to live soberly and righteously and Godly in this present world.

In 1 John 1:7 we read.......but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Again, we are now children of the light if we have Christ.. We are children of the day. not the night. So we are ALWAYS of the day. That is our standing in Christ. That is another verse for salvation just as 1 John 1:9 is. The blood of Christ has already cleansed us from sin. It's been done. Now we are walking in newness of life. Those who this was being told to had yet to be cleansed and yet to be walking in the light in the fellowship of the saints.

The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin literally means ...... the blood of Jesus His Son keeps cleansing us from all sin and it's the same in verse 9 - if we are continually confessing our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Again, the cleansing is not based on our confession. The cleansing is based on the blood of Jesus that continually cleanses us from allllll sin. The past., the present and the future sins. Our whole life is covered and was changed when we became part of the beloved. We were made new creations in Christ with a new standing in His righteousness. His righteousness was a gift that comes with all these and more gifts to take hold of so we can walk in newness of life. Righteousness is a gift we receive., not something we attain.

Let's carry on and follow what the word of God says to do and not what man might say or believe.

Check everything out with scripture because these are the last days and many will be twisting the truth of scripture or downright denying scripture. How did Satan try to tempt Jesus? He quoted scriptures out of context or twisted them for His own purpose. He did the same to Eve in the garden.

Put on your full armor church and don't allow the darts of the enemy to penetrate.

I agree. Take the Word of God and compare Scripture with Scripture. Meaning the same all throughout the Bible. The Bible never contradicts. So if there is something that sounds off it's not the Bible., it's our understanding and we need to keep looking at the truth and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us. Our religious training is not always in line with the Bible.

Chris1975 · Jun 19, 2017

Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I have read some of the to and fro on the topic of original sin earlier in the thread. I feel that the above scriptures could help settle the matter. What is clear from scripture below is that through Adam all were made sinners (verse 12). This is not to say that people are judged for the sin of Adam. No. Everyone will be judged according to their own sins. They committed them (see verse 14). And they are held accountable for them.

Romans 5
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— [SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

However, Sin does dwell in the flesh. I have to agree with G777.

Romans 7v5 [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

It's the Law of Sin and Death: Romans 8 [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 7v8 [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire.

Romans 7v13b But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Romans 7v14 [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7v17-18 [SUP]17 [/SUP]But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells

Romans 7v20 [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

- just in case you misinterpret Romans 7v20 and think you have a "free ride", you don't. Sin dwells in Paul's flesh. However Paul's mind is REPENTANT. Read from verse 9 again. He doesn't want to sin. That's a repentant mind. In other words he hates his sin, and wants it dealt with. However there is such power dwelling in the flesh that is empowered by the law (law is good) that the corruption in the flesh causes the inevitability of the fall. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

This is then proven in verse 21: Romans 7v21-23 [SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. <repentant> [SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members <the law of sin and death dwelling in the flesh>, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

And we know the solution to dealing with the flesh is Jesus Christ, through the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Amen. We no longer have to sin because of this Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

Romans 8

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; [SUP]21 [/SUP]because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

We await the hope of a new body (not the corrupted flesh version, but a new incorruptible body)

1 Corinthians 15
[SUP]42 [/SUP]So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. [SUP]43 [/SUP]It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.

Skinski7 · Jun 19, 2017

Chris,

Sin does not dwell in the flesh. Paul is using figurative language to describe bodily passions given over to the service of lust, not a literal indwelling of sin.

Sin is MORAL.

Sin is not a physical property.

This is common sense. The Bible teaches that lust gives birth to sin...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin is wrought when the WILL aligns itself with natural passions in disobedience to the moral conscience.

Sin is circumvented in the Christian because the natural passions are ruled over by a will in obedience to God.

Repentance is a reformation in which the will yields to God. The power over sin is then wrought through the love of God being shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Spirit.

Original sin redefines repentance because it implies an inability to obey God. Thus people are decieved into approaching God with a still rebellious heart (old man not crucified) and they wait for God to magically change their desires. This is one reason that the false church system is full of sin, it is established upon this doctrine.

God does not change our desires, we have to CRUCIFY them in repentance in that we desire to pursue righteousness. God does not fo tha for us, He just convicts us to do it. We have to either quash the conviction or allow it to work unto godly sorrow.

Seriously consider these things and carefully read Romans 5.

Paul is not advocating Original Sin but TYPES.

pottersclay · Jun 19, 2017

Gabriel2020 said:

Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Skinski7 · Jun 19, 2017

Chris,

if you examine Augustine's writings you'll see that he drew the conclusion that "concupiscence" itself was sin. Go and read the words for yourself...

CHURCH FATHERS: On Marriage and Concupiscence, Book I (Augustine)

No one taught this in Christianity before Augustine. Sure a few people hinted at a vice of origin like Tertullian and even Ambrose who converted Augustine referenced Original Sin, but none of them tied an inherited inability to the doctrine like Augustine did.

Augustine added duelist notions he had inherited from his former experience as a Manichaen Gnostic. He simply christianised a lot of his thinking and was a very confused man. Yet he was an expert at tge practice of rhetoric which was popular in his day and thus he was able to influence many people to adopt a belief that Christianity had never held before.

Also consider that the ransom ideas of Origen were prevslent back then which represented salvation as transaction based as opposed to a release from bondage. Origen's framework was a forerunner for The invention of substitution theology many years later.

Please carefully consider this stuff, there is a lot to it.

Bottom line though is it all attacks genuine heart purity in salvation.

Few will escape the delusion because tgey are emotionally bonded to the lie, and of course they love their sin. If they didn't they would stop.

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I have read some of the to and fro on the topic of original sin earlier in the thread. I feel that the above scriptures could help settle the matter. What is clear from scripture below is that through Adam all were made sinners (verse 12). This is not to say that people are judged for the sin of Adam. No. Everyone will be judged according to their own sins. They committed them (see verse 14). And they are held accountable for them.

Romans 5
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— [SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

However, Sin does dwell in the flesh. I have to agree with G777.

Romans 7v5 [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

It's the Law of Sin and Death: Romans 8 [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 7v8 [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire.

Romans 7v13b But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Romans 7v14 [SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7v17-18 [SUP]17 [/SUP]But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells

Romans 7v20 [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

- just in case you misinterpret Romans 7v20 and think you have a "free ride", you don't. Sin dwells in Paul's flesh. However Paul's mind is REPENTANT. Read from verse 9 again. He doesn't want to sin. That's a repentant mind. In other words he hates his sin, and wants it dealt with. However there is such power dwelling in the flesh that is empowered by the law (law is good) that the corruption in the flesh causes the inevitability of the fall. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

This is then proven in verse 21: Romans 7v21-23 [SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. <repentant> [SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members <the law of sin and death dwelling in the flesh>, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

And we know the solution to dealing with the flesh is Jesus Christ, through the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Amen. We no longer have to sin because of this Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

Romans 8

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; [SUP]21 [/SUP]because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

We await the hope of a new body (not the corrupted flesh version, but a new incorruptible body)

1 Corinthians 15
[SUP]42 [/SUP]So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. [SUP]43 [/SUP]It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.

I agree too Chris.

We can see that Paul wanted to serve God with his mind and will and emotions which is his soul.

His will was to do good was in verse 18 & 21 of Rom. 7

His emotions were involved when he said he was doing the very thing he hated in verse 15 of Rom. 7

His mind is shown in verse 23 & 25

Thank God for Romans 8 that speaks of us in Christ and that we are not in the flesh but in the spirit - if Christ is in fact in us.

If we would preach and teach Christians how to walk by the spirit - they would have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ and then they wouldn't be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

The understanding of the circumcision of the heart where the inner man is cut away from the body of flesh ( Col. 2:11 ) has done more to help me live a holier life based on the life of Christ in me then anything else. This grace of God in Christ's finished work has really helped me to walk free in many things.

The flesh is a real thing.

Galatians 5:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Romans 6:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

Skinski7 · Jun 19, 2017

Don't fall for the double tongued rhetoric of Cut'n'Paste 24/7 for he believes thus...

That right there is gnostic "positional" salvation. In other words he believes salvation has NOTHING to to with the actual condition of the heart.

Porn watching, malice and slander are rooted in an evil heart. An evil heart is not redeemed.

Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that yelove one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

Skinski7 said:

And yet in your deceitfulness ( which is sinning too...BTW ...) and didn't post the rest of my post on that subject - this condemns you in your own religion and thus makes you a child of the devil according to your interpretation of some scriptures. This always happens to these types.

I know it's a waste of time trying to show these "sinless perfection in the flesh" types the real truth of the work of Christ but I will say some things in the event it will help some readers to not fall for this false doctrine and to learn how to walk by the spirit within them and be free by the grace of Christ.

In the meantime they will know they are safe in Christ and that God doesn't throw His beloved babies in Christ into hell as this false doctrine teaches. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit with be in us forever. John 14:16 - He is NOT a liar and we can trust Him.

God does not send His beloved babies in Christ to hell which is what this false doctrine teaches.

Can a Christian who has outbursts of anger from time to time - still go to heaven if they died tonight right after they had an outburst of anger?

Can a Christian who has over eaten so much ( that is a form of lasciviousness which means without restraint ) that they are sick from diseases - they die tonight - will they go to heaven?

Can a Christian that has envy towards some one else because they have a better job - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?

Can a Christian who causes strife and division amongst others - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?

Can a Christian who has deceitfully mis-represented what others are saying - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?

Can a Christian who slanders others in the body of Christ - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?

Can a Christian that has enmity which is hostility towards others - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?

Can a Christian that is doing some sort of immorality - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?

All of these and many others are all in the lists of the works of the flesh. I don't advocate doing any of them because as I have said about 50x times - all the works of the flesh bring destruction to us in some form or other.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and how to walk by the spirit so that believers will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh while in this world and live holier lives that show the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for the people of the world.

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

joaniemarie said:

no, all is solved by coming clean with God, ending the rebellion, done through a season of godly sorrow not to be regretted called "the baptism of repentance" see 2 Cor. 7-11. THEN God sees the motives of the heart. and if sincere, He dispenses His mercy and forgiveness and the said person is justified through reconciliation via the mercy seat of God, that being our intercessor Jesus Christ...this whole process is of good works, your first good work is obedience to the truth.. There is no boasting in coming clean with God and being a child of obedience, having put to death the old man of selfish motives,..sadly, many are very jealous of those who have become true children of obedience, but remember this truth, the wrath of God still abides on the children of disobedience...... .hope this helps

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

all of Augustine's positions, like the Pharisees, were of religious works, and his theology was rooted in Platonism, whereas Pelagius depended on the grace of God and obedience from the heart, rather than religious works. Christianity, the beast, is rooted in religious works and carnal intellectualism (and much superstition) having no power to purge the sinful indulgence of self, but rather leaves its followers still remaining in their sin, but calling themselves Christians, thus taking the Lords name in vain ..

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

Gabriel2020 said:

this is true,..... and if I may add ,God sees the future as reality, and possibilities are not certainties and that is reality.....the thought never entered God's mind that the Israelite children would sacrifice their chidren to Moloch....

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

[It takes the Holy Spirit to give us the "grace" to understand God's ways that are higher than our ways. [/QUOTE]

In context it simply means HIS was are not of sin like those of whom He was addressing...

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

God's dynamic for making the believer in Christ His righteousness is one of the "ways of God".

His ways are higher than man's ways of religious beliefs of self-effort and works-righteousness which really nullify the grace of God in Christ from operating like it was meant to.

As high as the stars are above the earth - so are God's ways higher than our ways.

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

God has created man good and upright, in his own image and likeness, innocent and without sin:

"God hath made man upright." Ecclesiastes 7:29
"God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…And God saw everything that he had made, and…it was very good." Gen. 1:26, 31

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Genesis 9:6

"Man…is the image and glory of God." I Corinthians 11:7 (sin is not godly and is not of His image)

"Men, which are made after the similitude of God." James 3:9 (sin is not in the similitude of God)

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

we inherited flesh genetics from Adam, the flesh (man's carton that house his soul) by itself cannot sin, of do good, its just sarx, but rather it is the soul that sinneth it shall die, Ezek 18..God created our souls in the womb, we DO NOT inhearit our soul from Adam...Even Eve did not get her soul from Adam, for Adam said about her, "flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone" flesh genetics...God created Eves soul, and the soul of all men/women.

"The Lord…formeth the spirit of man within him." Zechariah 12:1 Within many contexts the terms spirit and soul are interchangeable in the text.

"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life." Job 33:4

"God that made the world and all things therein…seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; and hath made of one blood all nations of men…For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God…" Acts 17:24-26, 28-29

"Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions." (they invent sinfull ways of rebellion) Ecclesiastes 7:29

The Bible declares that men, having been created upright and in the image of God, have corrupted themselves and sinned against the good nature that God created them with:

"Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions." Ecclesiastes 7:29
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him…And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Genesis 1:27, 31

And, then:
"Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?…she gave me…and I did eat." Genesis 3:11-12

"And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth…for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth." Genesis 6:7, 12

"They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. (none of the wicked do any good, because obviously Noah did good) The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Psalm 14:1-3 (In this Psalm David speaks of the wicked atheists who don't even believ there is God, moving forward in the chapter he speaks of the righteous) this is where Paul draws his opening quote from in Romans 10 "it is written"

"Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Psalm 53:3 (once again David is speaking of those who are birthed out of Satans womb, and go astray speking lies, the chater also goes on to speak of the righteous, he makes a great contrast between the two).

"Ye are gods; (meant to bring righteous judgement upon the land) and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men (gentiles) because of your sins, and fall like one of the princes." Psalm 82:6-7

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (But not so with the righteous man Noah, for he found the empowerment of grace in the eyes of the Lord) And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. (God made them to be sinfull, and then He regretted it? I don't think so, that's totally illogical! But rather man makes himself sinfull) And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth…And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth." Genesis 6:5-7, 11-12

"They have corrupted themselves;;;; They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it." Exodus 32:7-8

"For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you." Deut. 31:29

"They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation. Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?…Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee." Deuteronomy 32:5-6, 18

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

and, the sin everyday crowd preaches the gospel of earth..Gods ways are righteous, heavenly, however man who corrupts himself is earthy....it seems you never miss an opportunity to defend the ways of the earthy..

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2017

willybob said:

This is where you in deceitfulness is mis-representing what I have always said.

Your own religion condemns you for this sinning and says that you are a child of the devil now. Thank God for the grace of God in the gospel of the grace of God in Christ - that if you died tonight - if Christ is in you - you would go to be with the Lord.

But I thank God for the opportunity again to preach the gospel of the grace and love of God that is in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

In order to keep the deceit down to a minimum - I will post this again for about the 18th time in the hope that it will be a blessing to someone who is struggling in their Christian life.

Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.

I don't see any difference in sinning by living a homosexual lifestyle to having malice, bitterness, having outbursts of anger, being deceitful, being jealous and envious and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. All of these, as well as all the works of the flesh bring about death to us in this life. They are contrary to the life off Christ in us now.

Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )

Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.

We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.

It reveals the true heart of our loving Father and Lord to show others in this hurt and dying world their love and grace towards them.

Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!

Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh".

This "lose your salvation" false doctrine which discourages believers and brings fear and hopelessness to them as they struggle in the flesh with some things.

This causes them to have their faith ship-wrecked because they feel condemned and don't know how to walk by the spirit yet nor are they taught the gospel of the grace of God in Christ properly in order to grow up in Him.

Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.

The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus as in a mirror. We see all the goodness that He has already done for us and we also see ourselves in Him as one spirit with the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.

He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.

As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.

willybob · Jun 19, 2017

Children Have No Knowledge Of Good And Evil At Birth
children cannot be sinners and guilty and condemned at birth, for they do not yet know the difference between good and evil, and have not yet come to the "age of accountability":

"Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it." Deuteronomy 1:39

Esau and Jacob struggled in the womb but neither of them did good or evil..Romans 9
"Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings." Isaiah 7:15-16

"For the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth." Genesis 8:21

Youth is some 20 times in the text, and it never once describes a young child, or infant......example; David slew Goliath from his youth.

These verses prove that babies are born innocent. Everybody knows that babies know nothing when they are born. They do not know right from wrong. They do not know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. They do not have evil imaginations of the heart. The Bible says that the "imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth," not from his birth. It is only when children know to refuse the evil and choose the good that they can have evil intentions, evil purposes, or evil choices of the heart. Until they know right from wrong, their actions have no moral character, they can do neither good nor evil, and they are innocent before God. The Bible teaches that children must reach the "age of accountability" before they can commit sin. This is why Abel and Cain came to God after being fully developed conscience and accountable, its cripted into the text for the a discerning eye to see "in the process of time" Gen 4 Time is required for mans conscience to fully developed and be accountable, a fact of pro-creation...This was not true in the case of Adam and Eve, because they were not procreated through birth, but rather were made fully developed....

eternally-gratefull · Jun 19, 2017

BenFTW said:

How the past is but a thief when it lays sorrow in the present. The truth of what once was hidden as like a skeleton in a closet. Yet here I am, to tell you that there is no need to have such a closet. Its time for renovations! The past as bleak and dark that it may have been, with past transgression is just that. The past. It is a thing behind us, but if we let it, it will rob us and others. Shame. Hindering us as we mope about, feeling as if in each encounter with another soul we must place a mask upon the real self. Not true. The past is not the present you, the shame you feel need not be!

You see, there is no confession that needs to be made. No dark truth to be revealed. It is not their business and neither is it yours. Do not occupy yourself with what you were, but occupy yourself with who you are. Today is a new day. The sins of the past forgiven, and nearly forgotten in that they should not hold a stronghold upon your identity in the present. Do not let what once was, rob what is now. What matters is the present. Who are you today? Where is your love today? Would you today act in the same way that you did then? Be not ashamed. That is no longer you.

Now, you may wonder how wicked your mind and heart may be, to think that just maybe you might act in the same way. Possibly you still struggle with sins of the past. Have hope! God sanctifies, He sets free and gives liberty! The things that bind you, He has the strength to unbind. The chains around you, He can break. Simply know that you have been made new. God loves you. You are His child. What struggles you have are but opportunities for Him to show you His greatness and mercy. Don't see your problems as hopeless, rather see it as an opportunity to see God's glory.

Rid yourself of shame. This day is, again, a new day. You are not your past, but are here in the present. Sanctified by God, ever growing. Do not identify with your past transgression, rather identify with who God has called you to be. Walk in that reality, as this is who He has created you to be. To love. So this day, this moment, be just that. Think not upon the darkness of what you were, but be in the present, presenting yourself as who you are now. Not then. Once more, if the present isn't who you'd like to be, have hope. God sanctifies. This is where peace settles in.

Who we are apart from God, Guilty (see the inside of the ark of the covenant all of Gods proof we are sinners)

What God sees, His son splattered on the mercy seat covering all the things God has against us.

What satan wants us to see, Our sin, Our wrongs, how wicked we are. and not how God sees us..

Gabriel2020 · Jun 19, 2017

The death of the flesh itself is the original death that passed on to us all from Adam. HEBREWS ;9; 27; And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. The old world before the flood had not the law,that is why they were so corrupt., but could not be punished for their sins at that time. there was no law broken,because there was no law..that is why death reigned from Adam to Moses. once the law was written, all was held accountable for their sins.God's grace to save mankind was in the making from Moses to Jesus. He preached to the living and the spirits in hell,sparing no one from the Gospel,then the old world was held accountable.

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