the bible speaks of both willful rebellion, and sins of ignorance, this is well expressed in Hebrews and the epistle of John...Even the day of atonement in the old testament was not for willful sin, but was only for sins of ignorance...Job had several sins of ignorance, but did not a engage himself in the wilful vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom.That's why he was said to be righteous and perfect by God.... look it up, and investigate the day of atonement,...be blessed in your searching
Hi willybob
Thank you for your reasoned response and expressing your point.
I am aware of what you are talking about as I have looked into myself.
I think where I get upset is when people come accross as saying we do not sin and if we do then we are children of the devil.
That as believers if we knowingly sin even if it's not habitual sin we use that as an excuse to sin with the vile sins of the flesh.
If the issue that some people have is habitual sin with no regard to it and no repentance then state that.
Now even having said that if we know of people who are caught up in habitual sin (and we need to very careful that we ourselves are in a position to help) then John says come alongside and restore a brother.
If we do and they refuse our help because they have no wish to stop then it's time to let them get on with it.
However some may have a sin issue, like I did with gambling. I hated it asked God every day for help. Cried myself to sleep with it, hated getting up in the morning. I didn't want to gamble but this is the truth, I found myself gambling and I didn't even know I was. That may seem weird but I found myself on the slot machines and don't recall the walking into the place.
It was only when I realised that actually God loves me and that I'm not a dirty useless so and so and that he only loves me when I didn't gamble.
When I realised that he actually loves me and wants to help me was it then that he healed me from my gambling.
I must say this though and I don't want to upset anyone here but there was a reason why I gambled.
Briefly, never knew my dad, mum fell pregnant with me. Shameful for a Muslim family. I wrecked her life. Not once in my 14 years living with her did she tell me she loved me. I never knew what mood she would be in. She used to beat me quite badly.
Through me out when I was 14. I was taken in by a foster family, Christian one. Spent the next 5 years haveing my foster dad sexually abusing me.
Now part of my process here was that God had to heal me first of the above in order to then deliver me from my addiction or habitual sin.
One of the points I want to make is not to write people off because we probably have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, what the drivers are. We have a duty as brothers and sisters to come along side.
Finally I would also like to say that when Jesus judges on judgment day he says
Matthew 25:33-36
And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
We are also judged on the above.
What use is it if we can keep the law, not fall the vile sins of the flesh if we fail in the above?
Please believe me but I am one who wants to be like Jesus, I ask for help every day, I ask if I get it wrong and don't know it let me know, I do know it I come before him, hold my hands up, I do say "Sorry I got it wrong, please help me"
i am not greasy gracer but also I will not condemn someone as child of the devil if they struggle with a sin issue or occasional known sins.
Hope I make sense.
God bless you mate.