FOR THOSE WHO SAY THAT CHRIST IS NOT GOD.

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bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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#1
I want to focus on what the writer of Hebrews stated at Hebrews 1:3. "And He/Jesus Christ is the radiance of His/God the Father glory and the EXACT representation of His NATURE, and upholds all things by the word of His/Jesus Christ power. When He/Jesus Christ had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." (NASB).

The Greek word for "nature" is "hypostasis" and it means "the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing." The only other place "hypostasis" is used is at Hebrews 11:1 and there the word is rendered as "substance." The KJB renders the word nature as "person." The Apostel Paul uses that word which in the Greek is "phusis" at Galatians 4:8 to distinguish God from those who are NOT gods. For example, "However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by NATURE are no gods."

So according to Thayer as well as Strong, the Greek word, refers to the "sum of innate properties and powers" by which one kind of thing differs from another kind or thing. It refers to the "distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics of its subject. In short, Hebrews 1:3 is clearly teaching that Jesus Christ is God by nature.

Now, there is the argument (especially from Unitarians) that the word "image" really means that Jesus Christ is a "copy" of God but not God Himself, or a "facsimile" which btw is an exact copy but the copy is not the person himself. The reason that argument won't hold water is because Jesus Christ has the same exact nature of His Father. This is why I have always asked the question, "Give me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father." This is a universal law which cannot be disputed. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Mar 29, 2014
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#2
But U can not deny the fact Paul generally always says ," ...God the father AND the Lord Jesus." The word AND is generally in there. 2Tim1:2, 1Tim1:2, Gal1:1.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,025
506
113
#3
But U can not deny the fact Paul generally always says ," ...God the father AND the Lord Jesus." The word AND is generally in there. 2Tim1:2, 1Tim1:2, Gal1:1.
Well sisterclaudette I don't deny what the Apostle Paul stated just like I don't deny what the Apostle Peter said at 2 Peter 1:1, "Simot Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness OF GOD AND SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST." So what is your point? And btw, welcome to the Christian forums. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#4
i think the core issue lies is people are trying to overstand spiritual truth with carnal thinking.............. how can three be one and one be three????????? with man its impossible but with God all is possible! its very plain john 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God! - and later in john 1:14 it says and the Word became flesh........

and what is the Word? its God as it says, so God became flesh................. its very important basic teaching..........
 
Mar 29, 2014
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#5
Again, even your comment says AND (both God the Father AND the Lord Jesus)
 
Mar 29, 2014
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#6
I know about the few verses that imply Jesus is God but there are over 88 verses referring He is son of God. Jesus Himself referred to himself as Son of God. When dying on cross he even cried out His God...My God...My God...
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#7
But U can not deny the fact Paul generally always says ," ...God the father AND the Lord Jesus." The word AND is generally in there. 2Tim1:2, 1Tim1:2, Gal1:1.
God is frequently used for Father and Lord for Son.

It does not mean that Father is not Lord or that Son is not God.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#8
But U can not deny the fact Paul generally always says ," ...God the father AND the Lord Jesus." The word AND is generally in there. 2Tim1:2, 1Tim1:2, Gal1:1.



I posted this in another thread but I'll also put it here...



Jesus claimed to be God. Consider the following verses...

Matt.26 - Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Why did the priest rend his clothes? Because Jesus claimed to be God.It is why He was crucified.


Now lets look at what Jesus said in these verses.

He claims to be the Son of Man in Daniel,coming in the clouds.


13 “I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.


He claimed to be seated at the right hand of God,

Ps.110:1-110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.



John 1 says,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

and,

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


In John 20 Jesus confirms He is God to Thomas,


27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed...


Jesus claimed to be the I AM of the OT,

John 8-52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him

In John 10 the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus,why? He claimed to be God.

30
I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.




Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead,He forgave sins,none of which was possible were He not deity. Jesus accepted worship and never said "dont worship me,Im not God". Jesus clearly believed Himself to be God,His disciples came to understand He was God and He was crucified for claiming to be God. There is no doubt,Jesus is God.












 
Mar 29, 2014
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#9
The word never says The Father God Jesus. It generally says The Father God AND Jesus. Also, Jesus said His Father is GREATER than Him. If they were the same they would be equal.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#10
The word never says The Father God Jesus. It generally says The Father God AND Jesus. Also, Jesus said His Father is GREATER than Him. If they were the same they would be equal.
You are very confused. Jesus is not Father. Father is not Jesus.

Jesus is God.

Father is God.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#14
The word never says The Father God Jesus. It generally says The Father God AND Jesus. Also, Jesus said His Father is GREATER than Him. If they were the same they would be equal.


John 10



30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#15
Sorry. I prefer not to do lengthy. Do u got to be so lengthy?
Yes,it has to be lengthy because what you are saying is anti-Christ and anti-Christian. Jesus is God,He claimed to be God. To say otherwise is heresy,it is false doctrine.
 
Mar 29, 2014
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#18
It's also "short enough" (simple...no mystery..just believe) Jesus= SON OF GOD!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#20
I am not saying Jesus The Son of God was not with God in the beginning.
But you seem to have some kind of problem with the other part of the verse, that He was with God and He was God.