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Thread: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

  1. #41
    Senior Member beta's Avatar
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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    you said It's Faith + works but It sounds like you are works first.
    If we have 2 issues we are struggling with and both are biblical can we just UNITE them as BOTH being necessary....must it ALWAYS be only one OR the other ? Its like learning to WALK on 2 legs instead of hopping on one. What does it matter if one or the other is first when they are supposed to interact together ?
    When IN Christ we learn to walk in unity/unison/unified/as one/ peaceful/encompassing/drawing together etc..etc...NOT rejecting what can help to save, to knit together.
    We should be more open and welcoming - even to enemies whom GOD and Christ will change...given time, sometimes much longer than we as humans have time for. We must learn compassion and patience.
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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    I am not saved because I love others

    I love others because I am saved.

    We love, because God first loved us,, If we have not experienced Gods love in salvation, we will never have the capacity to truly love others.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson123 View Post
    believe in the sense believe his teaching. His teaching is only if we abide in Him, we will produce fruit, and the fruit of Holy Spirit is agape love
    I believe salvation comes by Grace alone through Faith alone and It sounds like you are saying,we get saved by Faith but we have to maintain our salvation with works.

    I understand what you are saying and a person who Is saved WILL seek to purify themselves even as they are pure but before GOD the person's Faith alone Is accounted as righteousness.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan58 View Post

    Paul said; "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" (1 Corinthians 6:9). Jesus said; "Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12). While I agree that salvation is only gained through Christ and not by our own works, I still think works matter because our actions demonstrate what we believe. Its sets a dangerous precedence to dismiss good works, because obedience makes belief actionable. If you believed your house was on fire, you'd get out, or you'd burn. "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings" (Jeremiah 17:10). Our deeds demonstrate what we believe; "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:19-20). The "works are worthless" philosophy is just part of the new age OSAS ideology. But I fear it will be a hard sell on judgement day when a person says; 'Yes Lord, I murders folks, raped women, and robbed banks, but I did it all while professing my belief in thee'
    I understand what you are saying but for those reading our post,GOD looks at the heart and accounts our Faith as righteousness.
    A person's Faith has to be genuine first.

    Then good works will follow proving that their Faith was true.

    Do you agree?
    Grace777x70 likes this.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    If we have 2 issues we are struggling with and both are biblical can we just UNITE them as BOTH being necessary....must it ALWAYS be only one OR the other ? Its like learning to WALK on 2 legs instead of hopping on one. What does it matter if one or the other is first when they are supposed to interact together ?
    When IN Christ we learn to walk in unity/unison/unified/as one/ peaceful/encompassing/drawing together etc..etc...NOT rejecting what can help to save, to knit together.
    We should be more open and welcoming - even to enemies whom GOD and Christ will change...given time, sometimes much longer than we as humans have time for. We must learn compassion and patience.
    Having them both as necessary would be out of order although a person SHOULD present their body a living sacrifice AFTER they get saved.
    Having them both as necessary Is like saying GOD did the work and I helped.DIY righteousness.

    GOD counted them all as coming short of the glory of GOD.
    man wants to say,I'm holier than that other guy.
    Last edited by seed_time_harvest; June 19th, 2017 at 08:58 AM.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

    Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

    But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

    You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

    Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

    You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God.

    You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

    For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

    James 2

    ----

    I am afraid that James says the opposite of what you say.
    Actually, James was not opposing what I have said, otherwise he would be opposing what Paul has said.

    Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Since Paul was given the right hand of fellowship with James....

    Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

    And there is no other gospel... as stated earlier in that epistle to the Galatians...

    Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Then what was James talking about?

    James was talking about the church's willful neglect and abuse of the poor starting in the very first verse of that 2 nd chapter of James. James even cited an abuse where the church after service was giving a kind of benediction of faith to the departing poor, "Be warmed and be filled" as if by voicing faith in God's Providence to the poor that it will somehow be divinely supernaturally done WITHOUT meeting the poor's immediate needs of perishing from the elements or starvation.

    So James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ at all for salvation for that faith is always without works, BUT James was addressing the church's verbalization of their faith in God's Providence to the poor that they better lead by example or else in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith is dead and it will not profit the poor nor save the poor by the church's lack of setting the example of having faith in God's Providence for tomorrow by meeting the immediate needs of the poor today.

    That is the kind of faith that James was talking about requiring works; an example if a church is going to verbalize it.

    James gave reference of that faith in His Providence by referring to Abraham's offering up of Isaac on the altar. christians that converted from Judaism are quite familiar with that faith mentioned in that story because the place was named as such after that kind of faith which was about God providing; not about faith in Jesus Christ without works to be saved.

    Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.............13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

    So James was not opposing Paul because many readers and churches and ministries are applying James's words wrongly. James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation for that has to be without works. James was talking about verbalizing faith in God's Providence that those who say such things to get out of helping the poor, should lead by example by meeting the immediate needs of the poor today and trust God to provide for the church's tomorrows also.

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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Paul wrote
    Romans 4:1-2
    King James Version(KJV)

    1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

    2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.


    GOD accounts Faith as righteousness,
    If a man has genuine Faith his Faith will show In his actions.

    Show me your Faith without your works and I will show you my Faith by my works.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

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    Senior Member Zmouth's Avatar
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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    I believe salvation comes by Grace alone through Faith alone and It sounds like you are saying,we get saved by Faith but we have to maintain our salvation with works.
    If salvation comes by Grace (the free and unmerited favor of God) alone, then being alone would seem to suggest that nothing else would be necessary for salvation to come to him it is bestowed upon. Yet apparently it isn't bestowed by Grace since the promise is conditioned upon the 'obtaining faith'' in order to receive the blessing of salvation.

    Sounds like camouflaged WoF doctrine.
    . There is the promise of the word (the gift of salvation) which requires the work (obtaining faith) in order to receive the offered blessing.






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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zmouth View Post
    If salvation comes by Grace (the free and unmerited favor of God) alone, then being alone would seem to suggest that nothing else would be necessary for salvation to come to him it is bestowed upon. Yet apparently it isn't bestowed by Grace since the promise is conditioned upon the 'obtaining faith'' in order to receive the blessing of salvation.

    Sounds like camouflaged WoF doctrine.
    . There is the promise of the word (the gift of salvation) which requires the work (obtaining faith) in order to receive the offered blessing.



    The work of GOD Is to believe In the one HE sent.
    IF you do not realize that the rebirth took place in your spirit then it can be confusing to your mind worshiping GOD standing in front of a physical mirror.

  10. #50
    Senior Member JaumeJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    After we have received the gifts of faith and grace we are mad anew and we will always act anewed.

    To imply God does not give us good works to do is against this process of being perfected. That perfection is the work our Father began in each of us and will not be finished until His Good and Glorious Day, halleluyah!

    Try not to confuse the fruit of the Holy Spirit with gain-seeking endeavor. No one is able to help God, but all are given to serve Him

    Fiath without works is no faith at all. Wait on the Lord, and He will supply the good works for his servants. Oh, please do not think you must raise the dead or heal or any particular work, for all works are good. One of the greatest works given us all is prayer for the Kingdom and the Kingdom fellow heirs with Christ. The one that seems least of the works of God is waiting on the Lord, and waiting for Him for this takes faith.

    You love your fellows in Christ, works. Do not let the enemy take away your confidence in your own good works given you by our Father.......that is one of his (the enemy's) favorite ruses...do not be fooled. You are blessed to God and to all members fo the Body of Christ.



    Quote Originally Posted by JaumeJ View Post
    We are save by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and all that Sacrifice entails, nothing more, nothing less.
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


  11. #51
    Senior Member Dan58's Avatar
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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
    I understand what you are saying but for those reading our post,GOD looks at the heart and accounts our Faith as righteousness.
    A person's Faith has to be genuine first.

    Then good works will follow proving that their Faith was true.

    Do you agree?

    Yes , I can certainly agree with that... My point was only that what we believe by faith
    is cemented by our deeds, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Jesus often told people that he healed; "Thy faith has made thee whole". Faith is when we act on what we believe, without that evidence, we merely render lip service.

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    Default Re: We are not saved by our works, but by our love for God and Eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zmouth
    Considering the question asks if God justifies the ungodly,
    Before we were saved, all born again ones were yet sinners (Rom 5:8); dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1-5; Col 1:13).

    So, does God justify the ungodly? Yes, He sure does!




    Quote Originally Posted by Zmouth
    since it is written that "...the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son." [John 5:22] So if the all judgment hath been committed unto the Son, if man is saved by his own faith then he knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, as written in Galatians 2:16, then faith without works is dead. James 2:26
    Acts 17:31 Because He (God) hath appointed a day, in the which He (God] will judge the world in righteousness by that man (Lord Jesus Christ) whom He (God) hath ordained; whereof He (God) hath given assurance unto all men, in that He (God) hath raised Him (Jesus Christ) from the dead.

    Alexander McLaren's Expositions of the Holy Scripture on Acts 17:31:

    III. The risen Jesus is Judge because He is Man.

    That seems a paradox. It is a commonplace that we are incompetent to judge another, for human eyes cannot read the secrets of a human heart, and we can only surmise, not know, each other’s motives, which are the all-important part of our deeds. But when we rightly understand Christ's human nature, we understand how fitted He is to be our Judge, and how blessed it is to think of Him as such. Paul tells the Athenians with deep significance that He who is to be their and the world's Judge is 'the Man.' He sums up human nature in Himself, He is the ideal and the real Man.

    And further, Paul tells his hearers that God judges 'through' Him, and does so 'in righteousness.' He is fitted to be our Judge, because He perfectly and completely bears our nature, knows by experience all its weaknesses and windings, as from the inside, so to speak, and is 'wondrous kind' with the kindness which 'fellow-feeling' enkindles. He knows us with the knowledge of a God; He knows us with the sympathy of a brother.

    The Man who has died for all men thereby becomes the Judge of all. Even in this life, Jesus and His Cross judge us. Our disposition towards Him is the test of our whole character. By their attitude to Him, the thoughts of many hearts are revealed. 'What think ye of Christ?' is the question, the answer to which determines our fate, because it reveals our inmost selves and their capacities for receiving blessing or harm from God and His mercy. Jesus Himself has taught us that 'in that day' the condition of entrance into the Kingdom is 'doing the will of My Father which is in heaven.' He has also taught us that 'this is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.' Faith in Jesus as our Saviour is the root from which will grow the good tree which will bring forth good fruit, bearing which our love will be 'made perfect, that we may have boldness before Him in the day of judgment.'

    Acts 17 MacLaren Expositions Of Holy Scripture

    Grace777x70 likes this.

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