RESTORATIONIST MOVEMENT KOOKS: ARMSTRONGITES, MORMONS, SDAS, HEBREW ROOTS MOVEMENT

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Feb 1, 2014
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#1
Restorationism is a movement that originated in the early 1800's up to the current day. In essence, after Protestantism emerged from the Reformation, various aberrant groups began to criticize various elements of Protestantism. Some of these groups include Armstrongism (various Sabbath-keeping Church of God groups like Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, Church of God - International), Seventh Day Adventism, Landmark Baptists, Mormonism, Church of Christ (Campbellites), Jehovah's Witnesses, Iglesia Ni Cristo, and a lot of the Hebrew Roots Movement groups.

The essential claim of Restorationists is that their movement restores the true apostolic faith to Christianity. Restorationist movements focus on discrediting the rest of Christianity, and promoting themselves as the true faith.

They generally claim that denominations are evidence that Christianity (excluding themselves) is fatally flawed and a tool of Satan.

Often they refer to their belief system as "the truth", obvious cultic language. That is what the Armstrongites I was involved with used to describe Herbert Armstrong's teachings. I have seen individuals in the chat room use the phrase as well. For instance, a young lady told another Sabbathkeeper "I am so glad we know the truth"...in relation to their common Sabbathkeeping.

The particular flavor of Restorationism I am familiar with is the Sabbathkeeper variety. Sabbathkeeping organizations often hold the position that those who don't keep the Sabbath are sinning against God. It's also often associated with being under the Mark of the Beast, either now or at some future point.

Armstrongites, SDAs, and some Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jew/"Torah observers" often believe this. Often, they have a distorted view of church history meant to support their claims that the church has veered far away from the truth.

It is interesting that some of these individuals make false claims concerning the number of denominations. For instance, recently I heard the figure of 60,000 different denominations. That's about twice as many denominations as I've heard by even the most outrageous claims issued by the Roman Catholic Church (which also uses the number of denominations as support for their position that they are the true church).

Anyways, it's hilarious that those making such claims are part of organizations which have added to the number. Most of them would claim that they aren't a denomination; they are the "true church". Others are simply small groups, but they seem to be oblivious to the fact that they themselves have added to the number while decrying that the vast number of groups.

And, when these groups break up due to differences of opinion, often they dissolve into splinter groups. Can we not say that these splinter groups, each with a separate name, are denominations? They would loudly protest that designation but that's the reality of the situation. Their position is totally hypocritical.

I also find it interesting that these groups hold beliefs that are heretical. Some outright deny the Trinity or the deity of Christ. Others define the Trinity in their terms, and claim that they believe in the Trinity but not the "Roman Catholic Trinity". Roman Catholics do not believe differently concerning the Trinity than evangelical Christians, therefore in essence the group is saying they don't believe in the Trinity.

Some will claim that they believe other Christians in other organizations are believers, but will still claim to be the true church. Seventh Day Adventism, for example, teaches that it is the true church, and is the "visible church of God" but there is an "invisible church of God" that is composed of all true believers. To deny this would be to refute their "remnant church" claim, which teaches that due to Sabbathkeeping and the "spirit of prophecy" (which mainly refers to Ellen G. White's prophetess status), they are the end time "remnant church" mentioned in Revelation.

Here's a good article on Restorationism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorationism


With regards to these sorts of cultic claims, I suggest that you apply the claims of the cult to themselves. For instance, cults claim that denominationalism proves falseness. Within a short period of time, these cults break down into different groups themselves. Point this out to them and watch them squirm and make excuses for their own splinter groups and how they don't qualify as denominations.

Also, be aware that there are individuals who are caught up in these claims who are regarded as "teachers" here on the site, despite their unorthodox associations. I suspect that some of them don't even believe in core Christian teachings such as the Trinity. They may claim they do, but then they define the Trinity in a different manner that evangelical Christianity defines it. For instance, do they believe that God is one Being yet three distinct Persons, and that these Persons are co-essential (sharing the same essence) and co-eternal (have existed eternally)?

With "Torah observers", the problem with their theology is even more apparent, though. Some are blatantly teaching that the Mosaic Covenant is in effect as a whole. This is impossible as the Temple and Levitical priesthood was integral to the Mosaic Covenant, and neither of those exist. Therefore, no one can be claiming to observe the Mosaic Covenant.

Check out the Restorationist article. When it comes down to it, a lot of the cultic movements are simply an outgrowth of this.

Concerning the Hebrew Roots Movement, here's a really good audio:

https://player.fm/series/the-christ...0/the-hebrew-roots-movementburden-or-biblical

The person who is being interviewed is a Messianic Jew, Steven Kreloff.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#2
I would disagree with a few points by Steven Kreloff..he splits the Ten Commandments as moral law...I don't believe the Sabbath is a moral law (it is a shadow or type of the rest of faith in Jesus Christ and Colossians 2:16-17 covers this), nor do I think it is correct to split the Ten Commandments from the rest of the Torah. There were various commandments within the Torah that are enduring moral and spiritual principles, some that were shadows and types of spiritual realities, and some that were civil commandments...the Torah was a basket of different types of commandments which are intertwined and not easy to split out into categories. However, Scripture is clear that as a whole Torah is not applicable (II Corinthians 3, Hebrews 7 and 8, Galatians 3-4, Ephesians 2:13-15, Romans 7:1-7, Acts 15).

I agree with almost all of what Steven said though.

However I would agree with most of what he has said in the audio.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#3
Note in the audio interviewing Steven Kreloff that Hebrew Roots Movement individuals are often claiming that Christianity is teaching the "doctrines of men" and that they are teaching "the truth".

There is a group in my area which is making the same claim...and it is very similar to the cultic claims that Armstrongism made. In essence, they claim to be restoring apostolic Christianity, and claiming that the rest of Christianity has deteriorated from the original faith.

I have seen "teachers" making similar hints on this site. They aren't quite bold enough to come right out and say it, as they know it would result in banning, but in essence they are trying to plant seeds of doubt amongst evangelical Christians concerning Sabbath, festival, and clean meat law observances.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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#4
isnt keeping the sabbath a good thing????????? and i think God knows what foods are good for us i have personal experience of this............. dont know about festivals tho im not skilled to observe them lol
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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#5
isnt keeping the sabbath a good thing????????? and i think God knows what foods are good for us i have personal experience of this............. dont know about festivals tho im not skilled to observe them lol
All the groups mentioned deny salvation by grace through faith.
They all have a works salvation approach - hence their devotion to days, festivals, diets etc.
Also they tend with some vigour to deny that anyone who does not do exactly what they do will be saved.
That is the issue!

It has nothing to do with the potential health benefits of a Mediterranean diet...
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#6
If anyone is sincerely concerned with the Sabbath issue after being subjected to Sabbathkeeper rhetoric I highly suggest the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. It addresses the Seventh Day Adventist claims concerning Colossians 2:16-17. The portion on this is written by Old Testament scholar Jerry Gladson. There is a Seventh Day Adventist on the forums aggressively spamming threads advertising his own website claiming Sabbathbreaking will be the Mark of the Beast. I grew up in a family with a similar mentality and am aggressively against that sort of paranoid, uninformed mentality.

Anyways it is a PDF file and is 8.00. This is not my website. I am simply providing the link as I am concerned about Judaizer influences here.

https://www.ratzlaf.com/Sabbath-in-Christ-eBook-in-pdf-file-sicepdf.htm
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#7
msg to the OP. why do you spend so much time worrying what other groups think?
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#8
msg to the OP. why do you spend so much time worrying what other groups think?
I would call it being concerned rather than being worried. I am concerned about seekers who might be misled by wolves...whether they are aberrant organizations, antitrinitarians, etcetera.

I experienced being misled myself so I warn others about being misled. God ordains both the means and the end. Christ said to make disciples...this involves warning against wolves.

I would prefer that each new believer be led to a Christ-centered organization, and not one that is full of individuals with National Enquirer, paranoid delusions about Christianity. And, that is the basis for many of these groups, along with anti-Trinitarians and other kooks.

I wish I'd listened to my grandfather, who told me that the Armstrongites were a bunch of nuts, in so many words.

Why are you concerned about me being concerned?
 

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Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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#9
Posts that focus on whats wrong with others beliefs without proper balance is, to say the least, negative in its content and purpose it seems, why not focus on the amazing ways the Almighty leads all who have a love of the truth through all of the falsehood and misconceptions created by man, and that's not even mentioning the enemies efforts in all of this.
It just seems to me that, contrary to what some seem to think , the enemy is not those who are trying to live a life of faith, but rather those who are blind to the fact of the grievous bondage created by open rebellion and a heart not yielded to the Savior's.
Many well intentioned people think they have the right or the wisdom to put themselves in a place where they can say what the path for others faith should look like, Yes I know there is one faith , one truth, one way, however should we not realize that it is the Fathers wisdom and heart of love that guides each to that path, not others trying to foists their own agenda (even with the best of intentions) on others simply because they have seen other truths yet to be revealed to others in their path ?

Maybe others see themselves as somehow qualified to make that call for others lives, I do not, only by His wisdom and grace are the true believers led to life, not by any mortal assuming they know the path for others based on their own limited and incomplete experience , We all serve and love the same creator and He alone knows the heart of each precious soul His blood was shed to redeem.
so rather then focusing so much on the differences and perceived problems why not focus more on the edification of the Body of believers and this way the body will be more strengthened to be not only led by the Holy Spirit in these matters but better empowered to carry on the work the father has given ALL of us, and that work needs to be done in humility and love , not bitterness and a judgmental approach to spiritual problems. We serve an awesome and loving God who seeks the restoration of ALL not just the ones who see things as we do.....
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#10
All the groups mentioned deny salvation by grace through faith.
They all have a works salvation approach - hence their devotion to days, festivals, diets etc.
Also they tend with some vigour to deny that anyone who does not do exactly what they do will be saved.
That is the issue!

It has nothing to do with the potential health benefits of a Mediterranean diet...
lease show me in the statement of faith by each of the aforementioned groups that directly prove your statement please.
 
K

kisharena80

Guest
#11
Heavenly Father thank you for your Word and thank you for a Spirit of Worship and truth. God help us to get back to having a heart of worship all that we need to know about Theology revelation and the mystery of who you are goes back to Worship Worship and fear of you precedes wisdom. In your word it said those that hunger and thirst after righteousness would find you Lord we dont have to analyze water for us to realise it quenches our thirst our body has a natural need for it just as in our Spirit you are our living water that never runs dry Lord fan the flame for the true Worshippers to rise up and say that you are God and come boldly before your throne with adoration and wonder of your omnipotent Glory.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#12
Here's another meme...it seems like folks here just don't want any scrutiny applied to their organization or themselves, yet feel free to criticize the church, even inferring that it is false or pagan.

If criticism is leveled toward their organization or belief system, they are greatly offended, though.
 

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Feb 1, 2014
733
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#13
Posts that focus on whats wrong with others beliefs without proper balance is, to say the least, negative in its content and purpose it seems, why not focus on the amazing ways the Almighty leads all who have a love of the truth through all of the falsehood and misconceptions created by man, and that's not even mentioning the enemies efforts in all of this.
It just seems to me that, contrary to what some seem to think , the enemy is not those who are trying to live a life of faith, but rather those who are blind to the fact of the grievous bondage created by open rebellion and a heart not yielded to the Savior's.
Many well intentioned people think they have the right or the wisdom to put themselves in a place where they can say what the path for others faith should look like, Yes I know there is one faith , one truth, one way, however should we not realize that it is the Fathers wisdom and heart of love that guides each to that path, not others trying to foists their own agenda (even with the best of intentions) on others simply because they have seen other truths yet to be revealed to others in their path ?

Maybe others see themselves as somehow qualified to make that call for others lives, I do not, only by His wisdom and grace are the true believers led to life, not by any mortal assuming they know the path for others based on their own limited and incomplete experience , We all serve and love the same creator and He alone knows the heart of each precious soul His blood was shed to redeem.
so rather then focusing so much on the differences and perceived problems why not focus more on the edification of the Body of believers and this way the body will be more strengthened to be not only led by the Holy Spirit in these matters but better empowered to carry on the work the father has given ALL of us, and that work needs to be done in humility and love , not bitterness and a judgmental approach to spiritual problems. We serve an awesome and loving God who seeks the restoration of ALL not just the ones who see things as we do.....
Quit acting like you are some fair minded individual. You directly stated that Reformed theology is Satanic. So, in essence, you are claiming an entire sector of Christianity is following Satanic doctrine.

I have no problems holding the view that those who claim that the Mosaic Covenant is still in effect are in grave error, either. Galatians clearly indicates that.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#14
I like this meme.

Those who are involved with Restorationist groups like the Armstrongites, Seventh Day Adventists, Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism and "Torah Observers" sense the attitude of contempt and superiority that radiates from many of them.

Their claims are largely based upon their alleged superior knowledge of Scripture and the distorted, conspiracy-theory mentality that they have concerning church history.

Having been an adherent of Armstrongism, I was fully taken in by their nonsense. After I understood God's grace, and justification by grace through faith alone, the spell was broken. One element that broke the spell more completely was realizing that their portrayal of church history was faulty and extremely distorted.

Like the meme indicates, they view themselves as the "Einsteins" who have been enlightened to "the truth". When this phrase "the truth" is used, it is often employed to refer to their peculiar belief system.

Some here get upset with me for exposing this underlying mentality. Sin does not like the light, and the pride that accompanies these belief systems is sinful. My intention is to expose it to the light. Seekers especially need to know the underlying presuppositions and attitudes of these groups.

And, these attitudes are not isolated to Armstrongism. I see subtle hints of the attitudes in all of the groups mentioned above. If their organizations want to continually accuse Christianity of being apostate, then they shouldn't be disturbed by my exposure of their own attitudes in this regard.

Many of the well-meaning ones carefully guard their speech to avoid exposing these beliefs fully, but the beliefs are still there. They believe that Christians have went off-track, and their group has the "truth". Their belief systems often blame this on Roman Catholicism, and insinuate that Protestants are dupes of the Roman Catholic system, and are a part of the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17.

If they really took the time to look at church history outside of the literature produced by their own organizations and others like them, perhaps they would see that a lot of what their organization is claiming is false.

Samuele Bacchiocchi, a SDA historian, did that...despite claims by Ellen G. White that the Pope changed the Sabbath, he holds that the vast majority of Christians were not meeting on Saturday by AD 140, due to persecution by Jews and their disenfranchisement from the synagogues as a result. So, the visions that EGW had regarding the Pope changing the Sabbath were FALSE. It is also quite common for Restorationists to claim decisions were made at the Council of Nicea that were never discussed. This is very common with individuals holding conspiracy-theory level views of Christianity. They might as well be reading the National Enquirer; it's about as factual as their organization's literature.

When presented with Samuele Bacchiocchi's information, a large number of SDAs will simply claim he's not a reliable source of information. A few others will claim that the SDA church has always known that the vast majority of Christians were not observing the Sabbath by AD140. But, it is unchallengeable that EGW claimed the Pope changed the Sabbath, and it was related to a vision she had.

SDAs are just an example of this, though..the misinformation is across multiple Restorationist organizations who claim that the church is in error, and they are the true faith. I encourage anyone who belongs to a Restorationist group to carefully examine the truth claims of your organization.

Armstrongism (United Church of God, Restored Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God), Seventh Day Adventists, Hebrew Roots Movement/Messianic Jews/Torah Observers, Church of Christ, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and Mormons should all carefully examine the truth claims of their organizations.

Some organizations affiliated with HRM/Messianic Jews/Torah Observers may be sound and don't claim such things ( I respect Jerusalem Assembly, Jews for Jesus, and Chosen People Ministries, for example), but it is very common for false claims regarding church history to be interwoven into the belief systems. If they are accusing the rest of Christianity of being in error, then it's a big red warning flag that you are dealing with kooks.
 

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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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#15
I like this meme.

Those who are involved with Restorationist groups like the Armstrongites, Seventh Day Adventists, Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism and "Torah Observers" sense the attitude of contempt and superiority that radiates from many of them.

Their claims are largely based upon their alleged superior knowledge of Scripture and the distorted, conspiracy-theory mentality that they have concerning church history.

Having been an adherent of Armstrongism, I was fully taken in by their nonsense. After I understood God's grace, and justification by grace through faith alone, the spell was broken. One element that broke the spell more completely was realizing that their portrayal of church history was faulty and extremely distorted.

Like the meme indicates, they view themselves as the "Einsteins" who have been enlightened to "the truth". When this phrase "the truth" is used, it is often employed to refer to their peculiar belief system.

Some here get upset with me for exposing this underlying mentality. Sin does not like the light, and the pride that accompanies these belief systems is sinful. My intention is to expose it to the light. Seekers especially need to know the underlying presuppositions and attitudes of these groups.

And, these attitudes are not isolated to Armstrongism. I see subtle hints of the attitudes in all of the groups mentioned above. If their organizations want to continually accuse Christianity of being apostate, then they shouldn't be disturbed by my exposure of their own attitudes in this regard.

Many of the well-meaning ones carefully guard their speech to avoid exposing these beliefs fully, but the beliefs are still there. They believe that Christians have went off-track, and their group has the "truth". Their belief systems often blame this on Roman Catholicism, and insinuate that Protestants are dupes of the Roman Catholic system, and are a part of the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17.

If they really took the time to look at church history outside of the literature produced by their own organizations and others like them, perhaps they would see that a lot of what their organization is claiming is false.

Samuele Bacchiocchi, a SDA historian, did that...despite claims by Ellen G. White that the Pope changed the Sabbath, he holds that the vast majority of Christians were not meeting on Saturday by AD 140, due to persecution by Jews and their disenfranchisement from the synagogues as a result. So, the visions that EGW had regarding the Pope changing the Sabbath were FALSE. It is also quite common for Restorationists to claim decisions were made at the Council of Nicea that were never discussed. This is very common with individuals holding conspiracy-theory level views of Christianity. They might as well be reading the National Enquirer; it's about as factual as their organization's literature.

When presented with Samuele Bacchiocchi's information, a large number of SDAs will simply claim he's not a reliable source of information. A few others will claim that the SDA church has always known that the vast majority of Christians were not observing the Sabbath by AD140. But, it is unchallengeable that EGW claimed the Pope changed the Sabbath, and it was related to a vision she had.

SDAs are just an example of this, though..the misinformation is across multiple Restorationist organizations who claim that the church is in error, and they are the true faith. I encourage anyone who belongs to a Restorationist group to carefully examine the truth claims of your organization.

Armstrongism (United Church of God, Restored Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God), Seventh Day Adventists, Hebrew Roots Movement/Messianic Jews/Torah Observers, Church of Christ, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and Mormons should all carefully examine the truth claims of their organizations.

Some organizations affiliated with HRM/Messianic Jews/Torah Observers may be sound and don't claim such things ( I respect Jerusalem Assembly, Jews for Jesus, and Chosen People Ministries, for example), but it is very common for false claims regarding church history to be interwoven into the belief systems. If they are accusing the rest of Christianity of being in error, then it's a big red warning flag that you are dealing with kooks.
I am curious about your views on the Church of Christ. I have heard different views on the subject and would like to hear yours. Not trying to argue but willing to discuss.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#16
Sparkman said:
RESTORATIONIST MOVEMENT KOOKS: ARMSTRONGITES, MORMONS, SDAS, HEBREW ROOTS MOVEMENT
You seem to start a lot of bashing threads...

...just an observation.