The devil's greatest lie to the body of Christ!

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

Notice their view under inspiration.

For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

DANIEL
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

JOHN
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

PAUL
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Kind David is another prime example....He I described as a man after God's own heart, chosen of GOD, blessed of GOD and anointed of GOD to lead Israel...HE ALSO wrote numerous Psalms used in temple worship and served God faithfully most of his life. He sinned grievously with Bathsheba and had her husband Uriah murdered...even had Uriah carry his own death warrant.....

David is a prime example of one who never lost his salvation, the bible speaks to the JOY of salvation being temporarily removed, strong conviction, the sword in David's house and even disease in his old age due to his sin. He is a prime example of a saved sinner. The following is a prime example of God's grace out bounding David's sin....NOTE DAVID acknowledge to NATHAN that he has sinned and what NATHAN states.

I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"; And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah.

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.

And David said to God, “Was it not I who gave command to number the people? It is I who have sinned and done great evil. But these sheep, what have they done? Please let your hand, O LORD my God, be against me and against my father’s house. But do not let the plague be on your people.”

David committed these sins as a saved child of GOD

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Isaiah was a great prophet of God.....He, under inspiration, wrote a 66 chapter book of the bible....the 1st 39 chapters correlate to the O.T. and the last 27 seem to correlate to the N.T. He was a great man of God.....look how he viewed himself in the 6th chapter of the book.

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
Ezra was a great scribe who was commissioned by Artaxerxes to teach the people in Israel the Mosaic Law and was in the service of God in the O.T. His ministry confronted the people and their sin.....he also contributed to the bible under inspiration. Note what the bible has to say about EZRA....

Ezra was praying and confessing. He was crying and bowing down in front of God’s Temple.

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Moses was also a great man of God, chosen of God and by God to deliver the Israelites from Egypt sinned in the desert when he struck the rock twice in anger....He was not allowed to enter the promise land because of his sin, but never lost his salvation..He appears on the Mount of Transfiguration with JESUS and Elijah....notice his sin....

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

If not of faith it is sin!

QuickenedByHim · Jun 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

"..wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do NOT war against the flesh" 2 Corinthians 10:2-3

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Written unto the SAVED....

The bible is clear and I agree.....HIS GRACE is sufficient and were sin ABOUNDS (is abundant) GRACE did much more abound (MORE ABUNDANT THAN OUR SIN)

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Written unto the SAVED

The book of James even speaks to this.....notice what he states....

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Even the Levites who served God in the temple tabernacle/temple service had to confess their sin.......

And Hezekiah spake comfortably unto all the Levites that taught the good knowledge of the LORD: and they did eat throughout the feast seven days, offering peace offerings, and making confession to the LORD God of their fathers.

QuickenedByHim · Jun 23, 2017

"..wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. For though we walk in the flesh, we do NOT war against the flesh" 2 Corinthians 10:2-3

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Look at the words of PETER......a man that walked on water, walked with Jesus, had power over demons and the ability to heal and raise the dead....and Peter was saved and immersed ALREADY when he stated this....after Jesus told him where to cast his net.......and it was filled....!

But when Simon Peter saw that, he fell down at Jesus' feet, saying, "Go away from me Lord, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!"

dcontroversal · Jun 23, 2017

Argue all you want......the verses posted prove you do not know what you are talking about....NO ONE is completely SINLESS as long as they carry this fallen, weak body of sin.....You must keep the entire law 24/7/365 your whole life to be SINLESS....only ONE had the ability to do this and YOU at not him.......

the conclusion is clear....we are justified, sanctified and saved in Christ.....yet we will ALL fail at some point or some time and SIN....a wicked thought, a selfish thought, anything that is NOT of faith IS SIN....even the most FAITHFUL of the BIBLE had moments where they FAILED and SINNED...end of story!

QuickenedByHim · Jun 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Peter was obviously not walking in the Holy Spirit yet, you're wrong. Jesus hadn't departed yet.

graceNpeace · Jun 24, 2017

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 7: 13-25

This is the Apostle Paul himself anguishing about his sinful nature.
This passage was written in the present tense.
He is not talking about the past!

This is the Apostle Paul being very honest about his sinful tendencies.

Of course our OP believes he can and will do better than Paul....

PeterJens · Jun 24, 2017

An important point about sinning is knowing what sin actually is and not to become
an OCD self condemner.

Emotional perspective is everything. Are we totally lost, corrupt, evil people who
occasionally do a good thing, or are we loving redeemed people, washed, cleansed,
purified, walking in the Spirit who occasionally fall into a sinful act? And what are these
acts we fall into?

I have noticed those who desire darkness want to keep sinful behaviour in the general, not
specifically talked about, rather than walking in the light and knowing God has purified us.

Make no mistake, darkness is from the enemy, light comes from God.
Men hate the light because it shows their deeds are evil.

The 10 commandments are fulfilled in loving our neighbour, ie everyone.
Love God, make no graven image, do not take Gods name in vain, keep the sabbath, honour your parents,
do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not covet

Is any of this when love is in your heart, you have repented of your sins, and desire to follow Jesus
difficult? Jesus is saying when you know Him as a brother, a friend, saviour and Lord, this road is
not difficult.

In truth many legalists who have fallen away, have returned to the faith denying the need the walk
righteously, convinced it is through failure that the gospel is seen not victory.

But the gospel starts is saying we are sinners in need of Christ, but it is in the victory that it is
fulfilled or else the gospel is in vain. Now in truth I did not see this before, but it is clear, we
are to be presented to Christ pure and blameless, His Holy redeemed body on the day of resurrection.

Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Eph 5:25-27

He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 1:8

Notice Paul is emphasising being firm to the end. Without faith standing firm to
the end, all in pointless.

PeterJens · Jun 24, 2017

dcontroversal said:

This is an interesting distortion.

As redeemed, cleansed, pure, holy people of God walking righteously, we are
the fulfillment of the cross and Gods purpose.

To fall into sin and evil deeds is to deny the very nature of who we are in Christ
and to turn away from Him.

As a natural outflow of following Christ one does good things.
Everyday we do things, and following Christ these things are good and not evil.

The statement assumes that doing good things are an extra, without which we
would not be able to claim we are saved. But in reality if we do evil deeds, how
can we claim to know Christ? For it is our walk that defines who we are.

And the evil people claim everyone does, they need to list it, and show it as
evil. For instance being annoyed or irritated by people is not evil. Reacting to
people who endanger our lives on the road is not evil.

Desiring to murder and expressing this is sin. Miss-using Gods name is sin.
Looking adulterously at others is sin. But these are all extensions of reactions
we feel everyday into sin, rather than contained and directed appropriately.

Jesus felt pain and loss to go to the cross for us, and He expressed this, but
constrained those feelings with the love He felt for everyone and obedience to
the Father. Jesus cried in empathy with Mary and Martha at the death of Lazarus
even though He knew Lazarus would rise from the dead.

Reactions are not evil, it is how you direct them leads to blessing or sin.
Sow to the flesh and reap death, sow to the Spirit and reap life.

Emotions matter, and walking in the Spirit with Christ is our fulfillment.

QuickenedByHim · Jun 24, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Before you quote Romans 7:13-25 and try to say "look, Paul was always sinning and couldnt help it" I suggest you slow down and look at what he states at the beginning of the chapter before you make Paul look double minded. Please pay attention to what he says in verse 5

"For WHEN we WERE[<--past tense] in the flesh, the motion of sins, which were by the law, DID work in our members to bring forth fruit to death." -Romans 7:5

Paul no longer considered himself to be in the flesh, nor war after its nature. Another verse I will use to refute you is from his first letter to the Corinthians:

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." -1 Corinthians 9:27

^see that there? Paul controlled his body. I hope you can clearly see that now.

PeterJens · Jun 24, 2017

dcontroversal said:

John is a classic example.
Over our whole lives, John is saying we have sinned. To say we have not is deception.

But to walk in confession of sin, and know Gods love flowing through us is righteousness
and truth. Love in Christ overcomes all barriers and is the victory we possess.

Jesus said,
Blessed are those who mourn. Jesus was talking about those who mourn about sin and
lostness, who are cut to the heart about rebellion and evil in their lives and the world in
general.

And you will find a group who deny that we should feel sorrow at sin at all.
Their rebellion is so deep they would rather rejoice that they have forgiveness
in Christ while they sin, so should not feel sorrow.

So imagine this, as you murder an innocent, you rejoice God will not hold it
against you because He has forgiven you prior to your action.

It is this insane, distorted, disfunctional and evil.
Now they deny this is what they mean, it is as they swear or get angry, desire murder of
others or some other out of control emotional feeling, which is sin, God forgives them.

But putting it into actual deeds, which they claim is the same, is too brutal, though the
words mean 100% the same thing. It is this kind of irrational hypocracy which is excusing
sin and rebellion and not shinning a light on their emotional life and the need to cleanse
their hearts and not actually about murder or real physical actions.

It is also why the language is not actually matching the subject, but rather their internal
turmoil. But this disconnected language is then used to distort the gospel and make it
powerless, which is blasphemy of the cross and Gods message.

And they claim such superiority though their emotional lives are out of control, and
the condemnation they preach is total, it is taken as Gods word, even when Gods word
contradicts their inventive outpourings.

graceNpeace · Jun 24, 2017

QuickenedByHim said:

And still you lie!
Putting words in my mouth - again!

Pleeeeaaase point out to me where I said Paul was always sinning and couldn't help it?

Whatever gymnastics you are using to explain away the clear message of Paul's words don't wash with me.
I think that you are so caught up in your deception that you will tell any lie to justify yourself!
Very sad.

PeterJens · Jun 24, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Here is the lie. This belief system is saying we are striving to be good when we
are innately evil.

In Christ walking in the Spirit, we are innately good, redeemed, pure and Holy.
It has always been a walk, and we are washed by Gods word and the Holy Spirit
as we walk.

What I have observed from these defeatists is they confess sin daily, talk about
their out of control emotional lives, locked out hearts, lashing out at others, anger
that boils over even here on cc, yet expect they are examples of christian maturity
in Christ.

They have hardly begun the walk within, the walk of transformation, obedience and
discipline, of aligning ones hearts and desires with God and His gospel.

So ofcourse their life experience is of defeat and failure, because until they deal with
their hearts, all is actually to no avail.

If you say you need to climb Everest and yet do not have any climbing gear, or have
done any training, or even capable of walking 5 miles you are lying to others and yourself.

So often these believers spew slander, hatred, lies, anger, invented weaknesses, provocative
statements to upset, insult, demean, abuse, put down, trample on, crush another with no
regard either to the impact or empathy that they might be doing harm to another.

If one merely comments on their approach and behaviour by describing it as it happens, like
a mirror, one is attacked and abused as if one has insulted them, but they have done it literally
to themselves. It is why they are dangerous, condemning and abusive people.

Now those who wish to run after righteousness, to walk in love, purity and grace, Halleluyah,
for you are blessed from on High and you will find your goal.

And in striving for this goal, many failures and struggles will come to light, with lusts, desires,
memories of the past, difficulties with fears and abandonment of the past, but in overcoming
one is declaring the victory of the cross in Christ Jesus at work in us. Amen

dcontroversal · Jun 24, 2017

QuickenedByHim said:

More proof you don't know what your talking about........

That which is born of Spirit IS SPIRIT...I suggest you trust Jesus and then re-evaluate your theology....

The devil's greatest lie to the body of Christ!

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