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Thread: Is polygamy ok to God?

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier View Post
    Because a woman can only be prenant every nine months, a man can procreate every hour.
    If there were an equal amount of men and women then it would not be necessary for a man to sleep with a woman that is not his wife in order to procreate. The logic of your math is a little fuzzy but that's alright because I'm not a math whiz either.
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochii View Post
    Well knowing everything that David had to go through and all of the suffering that it meant for him and his wives, I would tell him not to do it.
    If a muslim reads the OT and gets the idea that polygamy is God's will, that muslim is sadly confused like you are hahaha
    And that Muslim should probably study the whole bible deeply and he would probably get to the same conclusion I did
    I'm not being selective, I'm pointing out evidence I think is enough to believe polygamy is not God's will.
    In my opinion David was a slime ball for having more that one wife, let alone hundreds of them and concubines too. Same goes for his promiscuous son as well.
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    I am not sure what the numbers were, more men? More women? Equal?
    I think in the beginnin a lot of things were fuzzy, including how we interperate how the earth was populated. I cannot recall hearing any sermon that addressed that matter. How did the entire human race spring from Adam and Eve without there being sexual relations between close family members? Excluding the Angels that were having relations with human women, the pool of partners was very limited. I would be interested in hearing what others believe or were taught about this.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    The first question one must ask, according to the writings, did Adam have an earthy Father and mother ? If not, then how could the following passage apply to Adam ? Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh.
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Sorry for the late replies, I wanted a break. I am fully aware that if a person has made their mind up already about something, it's impossible to reason with them otherwise no matter what. I just want people to look at the scriptures alone with this, forgetting about what churches have told us, what our culture thinks, what the laws of men say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochii View Post
    Ok
    I think you are basically ignoring simple logic
    And why do you think that Jesus says: one man will join one women and they will be one flesh
    Sorry for the horrible translation
    Paul defines what being one flesh means very clearly:

    1 Corinthians 6:16

    Or do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written "The two shall become one flesh."

    That does not exclude a man from being one flesh with more than one woman. Fornication has always been a sin, which is the context of what Paul was talking about in that verse I quoted. Whereas polygyny is a far more complicated subject, fornication has always been a sin from the very beginning to now. Becoming one flesh is only about sexual intercourse, it's nothing more than that. Marriage is a holy union where becoming "one flesh" is lawful. Fornication is when becoming one flesh is unlawful. A man who marries multiple wives is clearly joined to each one of them, he's not joined to them corporately, the wives do not marry each other which is why the husband (like Jacob with Rachel and Leah) would sleep with them separately.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rochii View Post
    Well knowing everything that David had to go through and all of the suffering that it meant for him and his wives, I would tell him not to do it.
    If a muslim reads the OT and gets the idea that polygamy is God's will, that muslim is sadly confused like you are hahaha
    And that Muslim should probably study the whole bible deeply and he would probably get to the same conclusion I did
    I'm not being selective, I'm pointing out evidence I think is enough to believe polygamy is not God's will.
    But God who is greater than all of us had no problems giving him all of the wives he had. Anyone can have problems in any kind of marriage, including my own parents, which I personally paid a price for. Didn't God command Hosea to marry a prostitute also? Hosea already had a wife too, if I recall correctly.

    I'm honestly very uncomfortable with how many people in this topic put down David. He's the greatest psalmist there is, he became the standard of all the kings of Judah by which God compared them to. Our Christ is called the son of David also.. and whose throne will God establish forever? David's! God blessed David immensely. It's such an injustice to him to equate him with his son Solomon.

    To interpret and study the scriptures all of the verses must harmonise with each other. When we adopt the belief of polygyny being sinful, we run into troubling implications, that is my main concern when anyone believes it is sinful.

    My position is that polygyny is not inherently sinful, I never said specifically that it was God's will at all for every man to have more than one wife. I certainly do not in anyway believe that in the church age any Christian man should strive to have more than one wife, and especially if it's taboo or against the law, which it is in ours. It's a sin to go against the law of the land you live in provided it doesn't contradict with Jesus' commands for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    What are you calling Levirate marriage? Servanthood? Do you likewise take surrounding verses, such as, Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death, as a command to strike fatal blows? That is how much sense what you say makes.
    I'm saying that it's not adultery.

    Quote Originally Posted by tourist View Post
    In my opinion David was a slime ball for having more that one wife, let alone hundreds of them and concubines too. Same goes for his promiscuous son as well.
    What you said actually makes me quite angry. God is perfectly able to condemn a king of Israel for sin Himself, he doesn't need our opinions. David did not have hundreds of wives either. David could very well have a higher position in the Kingdom of Heaven than all of us seeing how much God blessed him.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier View Post
    I am not sure what the numbers were, more men? More women? Equal?
    I think in the beginnin a lot of things were fuzzy, including how we interperate how the earth was populated. I cannot recall hearing any sermon that addressed that matter. How did the entire human race spring from Adam and Eve without there being sexual relations between close family members? Excluding the Angels that were having relations with human women, the pool of partners was very limited. I would be interested in hearing what others believe or were taught about this.
    You bring up a very good point! It's obvious that Adam and Eve's sons and daughters engaged in incestuous marriages, what other way was there? It was lawful then, but it's obviously not lawful now according to the scriptures. If incest between brothers and sisters was inherently sinful then I feel sorry for Adam and Eve's children, they either would sin or die without anyone to love. As much as incest disgusts me, logically it was normal and lawful back then. One could have a less hard time arguing that polygyny is a sin now, but wasn't a sin in Old Testament times, just like incest before the Law of Moses was given.

    I think when it comes down to it we have problems because we think that God is not fair, and I guess by Western standards He really isn't. He does what He wants, He is perfectly sovereign and we have no choice but to accept it, or else we become prideful towards Him.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedeemedGift View Post
    Sorry for the late replies, I wanted a break. I am fully aware that if a person has made their mind up already about something, it's impossible to reason with them otherwise no matter what. I just want people to look at the scriptures alone with this, forgetting about what churches have told us, what our culture thinks, what the laws of men say.


    Paul defines what being one flesh means very clearly:

    1 Corinthians 6:16

    Or do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written "The two shall become one flesh."

    That does not exclude a man from being one flesh with more than one woman. Fornication has always been a sin, which is the context of what Paul was talking about in that verse I quoted. Whereas polygyny is a far more complicated subject, fornication has always been a sin from the very beginning to now. Becoming one flesh is only about sexual intercourse, it's nothing more than that. Marriage is a holy union where becoming "one flesh" is lawful. Fornication is when becoming one flesh is unlawful. A man who marries multiple wives is clearly joined to each one of them, he's not joined to them corporately, the wives do not marry each other which is why the husband (like Jacob with Rachel and Leah) would sleep with them separately.




    But God who is greater than all of us had no problems giving him all of the wives he had. Anyone can have problems in any kind of marriage, including my own parents, which I personally paid a price for. Didn't God command Hosea to marry a prostitute also? Hosea already had a wife too, if I recall correctly.

    I'm honestly very uncomfortable with how many people in this topic put down David. He's the greatest psalmist there is, he became the standard of all the kings of Judah by which God compared them to. Our Christ is called the son of David also.. and whose throne will God establish forever? David's! God blessed David immensely. It's such an injustice to him to equate him with his son Solomon.

    To interpret and study the scriptures all of the verses must harmonise with each other. When we adopt the belief of polygyny being sinful, we run into troubling implications, that is my main concern when anyone believes it is sinful.

    My position is that polygyny is not inherently sinful, I never said specifically that it was God's will at all for every man to have more than one wife. I certainly do not in anyway believe that in the church age any Christian man should strive to have more than one wife, and especially if it's taboo or against the law, which it is in ours. It's a sin to go against the law of the land you live in provided it doesn't contradict with Jesus' commands for us.


    I'm saying that it's not adultery.


    What you said actually makes me quite angry. God is perfectly able to condemn a king of Israel for sin Himself, he doesn't need our opinions. David did not have hundreds of wives either. David could very well have a higher position in the Kingdom of Heaven than all of us seeing how much God blessed him.


    You bring up a very good point! It's obvious that Adam and Eve's sons and daughters engaged in incestuous marriages, what other way was there? It was lawful then, but it's obviously not lawful now according to the scriptures. If incest between brothers and sisters was inherently sinful then I feel sorry for Adam and Eve's children, they either would sin or die without anyone to love. As much as incest disgusts me, logically it was normal and lawful back then. One could have a less hard time arguing that polygyny is a sin now, but wasn't a sin in Old Testament times, just like incest before the Law of Moses was given.

    I think when it comes down to it we have problems because we think that God is not fair, and I guess by Western standards He really isn't. He does what He wants, He is perfectly sovereign and we have no choice but to accept it, or else we become prideful towards Him.
    So are you saying God was a God of incest in the beginning but then God changed his mind ? Just trying to understand what you are saying.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagallen View Post
    So are you saying God was a God of incest in the beginning but then God changed his mind ? Just trying to understand what you are saying.
    Since I posed the question, let me clarify: I said how can it be that the earths population grew from Adam and Eve if there was not incest in the beginning? It had to happen. I have never heard a sermon that addresses it, possibly because a Pastor does not want to indicate that God allowed it in the beginning, then after man had grown in numbers, outlawed it. It is also why, in my opinion, man lived for so long in the beginning. To have a many offspring as possible. There was a whole lot of "begtting" going on in those days. As time went by and numbers increased, the lifespan decreased. I also said that if anyone had a better answer for this mystery I would like to hear it. As far as I can tell there is no magical, mystical method used to populate the world. Simply "bagatin' But I also know that all these mysteries will be revealed to me some day.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier View Post
    Since I posed the question, let me clarify: I said how can it be that the earths population grew from Adam and Eve if there was not incest in the beginning? It had to happen. I have never heard a sermon that addresses it, possibly because a Pastor does not want to indicate that God allowed it in the beginning, then after man had grown in numbers, outlawed it. It is also why, in my opinion, man lived for so long in the beginning. To have a many offspring as possible. There was a whole lot of "begtting" going on in those days. As time went by and numbers increased, the lifespan decreased. I also said that if anyone had a better answer for this mystery I would like to hear it. As far as I can tell there is no magical, mystical method used to populate the world. Simply "bagatin' But I also know that all these mysteries will be revealed to me some day.
    God created a garden and Adam was the first man, who was put in the garden, as Eve was the first woman put in the garden, so the question becomes, did God create other people ? I would say God created other people as well, I personally do not believe that God permitted incest. In early history, a woman would give birth 5 times and only 1 child would live, incest played a big part in early history, just as it still does today.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Hi Rochii and everyone,
    Here is one of my recent work on bigamy and polygamy. Hopes it is helpful.
    -
    Source: http://metrodonut.ch/customary-bigamy-and-polygramy.php


    An Original Lay Sermon and Drawing by Swiss Church Artist Milan:


    Lay Sermon: [Customary bigamy and polygamy have been Christ's-Crossed] Like other acts (i.e. incest - Genesis 19:30-38; Romans 5:12), customary bigamy and polygamy were practiced among God's people in Old Testament's Israel (Genesis 4:19; 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Kings 11:1-3). Before the Law was created (Exodus 12:40-42; Galatians 3:17), without the Law sin is dead (Romans 4:15, 7:8) with men and women not charged (Romans 5:13). After the Law is created, bigamy and polygamy stem from adultery (Romans 7:3) become sins. To commit an adultery is to have a vaginal intercourse with someone's spouse verbally, mentally and physically. For bigamy and polygamy, both acts commit adulteries with one or more sexual partners [spouse-and-spouse / spouse-and-divorced / spouse-and-separated / spouse-and-single] concurrently. Levirate Marriage (Deuteronomy 25:5-10) and remarrying (1 Corinthians 7:39) is valid as legal binding monogamous marriage becomes annulled when a spouse passed away and the one [married / divorced / separated being made widower / widow] that remain becomes legally single again and is legally free to remarry (Romans 7:1-2). It does not fall into bigamy nor polygamy as one with single or multiple sexual partners concurrently with one or every of them alive and active within that circle. On the side note, the one who divorces one's spouse who is still living and marries another [divorced / separated / single who is not yet a widower or a widow at the time of marriage] commits adultery and the one [divorced / separated / single] who marries a divorcee / separated [who is not yet a widower or widow at the time of marriage] commits adultery (Luke 16:18). Yet among Mosaic laws, some appeared to be bigamous / polygamous in nature (Exodus 21:1-11) and are for Israelites only, not for Gentiles. To the Gentiles, Mosaic laws and others (Colossians 2:14-16) have been fulfilled by Christ (Matthew 5:17-20) - He (Romans 8:1-4, 10:4) is faithful in staying single [not committing adultery], in His focus on doing His Father's Will (John 4:34) - and have been cancelled at His cross (Colossians 2:14-15). Lord Jesus Christ (God the Son) demonstrated His (God the Father) intent, having set an example of singlehood for all in the era of Second Today - [Further reading on Second Today, visit Métro Donut's lay sermon on Enter His Rest] - of New Testament and beyond. His singlehood is not made as a new commandment for all (1 Corinthians 7:8-9, 25-28, 32-35) and one who is drawn to / chosen by Jesus (John 5:21, 6:44, 15:16) - set apart ones (1 Peter 2:9) - is to live like Christ (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:21; 1 John 2:6). So now, "go on your way and from now on sin no more," Jesus said (John 8:11).
    Medium: Graphite on Drawing Paper
    Size: 14.7 cm x 10 cm
    Private Collection
    © Swiss Church Artist Milan
    Métro Donut
    Note: Bible verse version: Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Our problem for men today is more the attack of Satan in the mind. The Bible says adultery is not a choice, one does not have to acquire another wife to solve his urges. Jesus said if you look upon another woman with desire (married or not) it is adultery, a sin.

    Paul insisted that a leader in the church should be “the husband of one wife,” a deacon or elder must have one wife... (Titus 1:6)."...the husband of but ONE wife..."

    The New Testament teaches that, “Each man [should] have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband” (1 Cor. 7:2).

    Monogamous marriage teaches us the type of the relation Christ has between himself and His bride, the church (Eph. 5:31-32). The church is called the bride, collectively as one (singular) each person is not a bride, as in plurality of wives and marriages.

    How many wives did Adam have in Gen.2:24? One, God did not take two wives out from his side. Monogamy has always been God's standard for the human race. From the very beginning God set the pattern by creating a monogamous marriage relationship -one man and one woman, Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27; 2:21-25). It cannot be interpreted he became one with “each wife”; then this would mean he would be a husband to each, committing adultery. God certainly could have made two or more wives for Adam, this would have endorsed the idea of polygamy, but he made only one.

    The Bible clearly and decidedly states that God does not condone or allow the practice of polygamy over and over again.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier View Post
    Since I posed the question, let me clarify: I said how can it be that the earths population grew from Adam and Eve if there was not incest in the beginning? It had to happen. I have never heard a sermon that addresses it, possibly because a Pastor does not want to indicate that God allowed it in the beginning, then after man had grown in numbers, outlawed it. It is also why, in my opinion, man lived for so long in the beginning. To have a many offspring as possible. There was a whole lot of "begtting" going on in those days. As time went by and numbers increased, the lifespan decreased. I also said that if anyone had a better answer for this mystery I would like to hear it. As far as I can tell there is no magical, mystical method used to populate the world. Simply "bagatin' But I also know that all these mysteries will be revealed to me some day.
    Let me ask you: "Did you come up with that thru Spiritual discernment or Human Reasoning?

    The fact is I see most of us agreeing that today we should not be polygamists. Isn't that the end game here in conversational debate? Let me add also, just to cut to the chase - Scripture clearly illustrates that we are to have only one wife from beginning to where we are today. But lets add to the fact that God wants us to obey our current laws as well. Polygamy is outlawed by the law of the land. (Romans 13:1-6) clearly indicates our Christian position on that score as well, just to add to our thinking.

    (Romans 13:1-6):

    Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgement on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Opinion was asked for; so I suppose it is ok to offer it; but I am surprised not to have found an answer from Scripture.

    The issue of Polygamy is only addressed in the New Testament in three places:


    Tit 1:5-6
    5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
    6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

    1 Ti 3:2
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    1 Ti 3:12
    12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
    KJV

    The fact that monogamy was a requirement for two leadership positions in the first century Church implies that polygamy was accepted but not encouraged by the early Church

    That remained the case until about the sixth or seventh century.

    I think that the most germane scripture for our time is Obey the civil authorities; which would make it improper in most western countries.
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    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier View Post
    Since I posed the question, let me clarify: I said how can it be that the earths population grew from Adam and Eve if there was not incest in the beginning? It had to happen. I have never heard a sermon that addresses it, possibly because a Pastor does not want to indicate that God allowed it in the beginning, then after man had grown in numbers, outlawed it. It is also why, in my opinion, man lived for so long in the beginning. To have a many offspring as possible. There was a whole lot of "begtting" going on in those days. As time went by and numbers increased, the lifespan decreased. I also said that if anyone had a better answer for this mystery I would like to hear it. As far as I can tell there is no magical, mystical method used to populate the world. Simply "bagatin' But I also know that all these mysteries will be revealed to me some day.
    It says, all that God created was good, so if God allowed incest in the beginning, then why would God then out law incest that He allowed ? I don't believe myself, that God allowed incest in the beginning, I believe incest happen because of lack of self control, therefore it was outlawed, as God dealt with it and yet it still happens even today, why ? The lack of self control.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagallen View Post
    It says, all that God created was good, so if God allowed incest in the beginning, then why would God then out law incest that He allowed ? I don't believe myself, that God allowed incest in the beginning, I believe incest happen because of lack of self control, therefore it was outlawed, as God dealt with it and yet it still happens even today, why ? The lack of self control.
    When Seth was ready to choose a wife; how do you suppose he could avoid incest?

    When Noah's grandchildren were ready to choose wives, how were they supposed to avoid incest?

    I think that we tend to give better answers when we allow our opinions to be guided by Scripture.
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    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    When Seth was ready to choose a wife; how do you suppose he could avoid incest?

    When Noah's grandchildren were ready to choose wives, how were they supposed to avoid incest?

    I think that we tend to give better answers when we allow our opinions to be guided by Scripture.
    If we use scriptures only, then scriptures does not record any female or sister that Cain could have married, to assume there was a sister is adding to scriptures, the fact remains, we don't know who Cain married, the last point to understand that everything was not recorded in the bible, as no one could write a book that could contain it all, as assuming Cain married his sister, is adding, which is foolish.

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagallen View Post
    If we use scriptures only, then scriptures does not record any female or sister that Cain could have married, to assume there was a sister is adding to scriptures, the fact remains, we don't know who Cain married, the last point to understand that everything was not recorded in the bible, as no one could write a book that could contain it all, as assuming Cain married his sister, is adding, which is foolish.
    After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Genesis 5:4


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagallen View Post
    If we use scriptures only, then scriptures does not record any female or sister that Cain could have married, to assume there was a sister is adding to scriptures, the fact remains, we don't know who Cain married, the last point to understand that everything was not recorded in the bible, as no one could write a book that could contain it all, as assuming Cain married his sister, is adding, which is foolish.
    Ge 5:4
    4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
    MarcR



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    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Genesis 5:4
    You beat me to it . But you are in the habit of giving good answers.
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    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  19. #219
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochii View Post
    Hi everyone!

    I honestly think polygamy wouldn't be good for anyone and it isn't God's will. (I'd never share my husband )

    What's your opinion?
    I wouldn't think anyone would presume to know Gods will, period. Maybe there was a reason why your God would allow polygamy.

    But I do know that the new testament says "Not to get into disputes over the law" This was a matter of law, since polygamy was practiced. Your God seems to make rules around polygmay, he doesn't seem to outlaw it until Jesus turned up.

    But then it's a matter of interpretation, and who really knows how to interpret the mind of God.

  20. #220
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    Default Re: Is polygamy ok to God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Genesis 5:4
    After Seth was born, then it records other sons and daughters, why not before ? If we put daughters before Seth, then we change the story, by assuming there were daughters before Seth, therefore one can only assume, there is no evidents to back that Cain married a sister.

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