What is the sign for salvation.?

[slave]

look like Paul did not want doing sin but he did any way

but non believer may want to sin and he do

both doing sin, but non believer want it, vs Paul did not want it

Romans Chapter seven is not the conclusion of Jesus' finishing work, nor of the growing stages of a believer. This is a relationship with God remember? What does Paul also say after his honesty in the growing process? "Christ Jesus (the law of the spirit of life) set me free from the law of sin and death. (And heres the good stuff)> For what the law was powerless to do in that it (was: past tense) weakened by the sinful nature (or flesh), God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. ... (and so).....He condemned sin in sinful man (and More good stuff)> in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit......those who live in accordance with the Spirit has their minds set on what the Spirit desires....The mind controlled by the spirit is life.

Paul says, he had no confidence, therefore, in the flesh but all the confidence in Christ in becoming His life.

He says, Rejoice in the Lord! Even saying it a second time: REJOICE IN THE LORD! For it is a safeguard in the life lived in opposition to the spirit; and the reason by which he was able to obey His will.. He understood the growing process (in Christ), saying God wasn't done yet in perfecting him, which doesn't mean he went on to accept sin in the slightest, in fact, just the opposite. There was one thing he had decided to do; committed to doing: He pressed on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of him! He pressed on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called heavenward in Christ Jesus. He went on to obey Christ as He showed Him clearly the things he needed and empowered him to do in keeping with his Father's will as he remained in Christ and was a bondservant to righteousness, or the relationship to God via the Spirit.

He concludes: "All of us who are mature should take such a view of things.

 

[OneFaith]

I reads some people say, in my church that as soon as you believe Jesus as your savior, than you save, no matter what you do, you can kill everyday, or rape everyday as long as you believe Jesus as savior you save. But if you keep killing, you will not resieve the reward. You go to heaven because salvation not by work, but no reward.

seem to me this person believe that to get reward need work, but not for salvation

i want to hear your comment what every body believe

Paul's belief (faith) did not save him. His fasting did not save him. His prayers did not save him. None of these things washes away sin. Only one thing washes away sin- the blood of Christ- which we get when we are baptized into His death (Romans 6:3).

Ananias said to Paul, "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized, and wash away your sins- calling on the name of the Lord." We are saved when we obey the gospel- which is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For when we are baptized, we die to ourself, bury our old sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and are raised alive with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what marks us for salvation.

(With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son).

Baptism is how we get into Christ, but it's possible to come back out. You can't willfully commit any sin you want. The Bible says "If you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." 'No longer' means it once genuinely did- which means OSAS (once saved always saved) is a false doctrine. You can lose your salvation- and this verse proves it.

So no, you can't simply believe and then commit any sin you want thinking you can't lose your salvation, because you can.

(Sinning willfully means premeditated, not tempted in the moment- but preplanned).

 

[graceNpeace]

Paul's belief (faith) did not save him. His fasting did not save him. His prayers did not save him. None of these things washes away sin. Only one thing washes away sin- the blood of Christ- which we get when we are baptized into His death (Romans 6:3).

Ananias said to Paul, "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized, and wash away your sins- calling on the name of the Lord." We are saved when we obey the gospel- which is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For when we are baptized, we die to ourself, bury our old sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and are raised alive with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what marks us for salvation.

(With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son).

Baptism is how we get into Christ, but it's possible to come back out. You can't willfully commit any sin you want. The Bible says "If you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins." 'No longer' means it once genuinely did- which means OSAS (once saved always saved) is a false doctrine. You can lose your salvation- and this verse proves it.

So no, you can't simply believe and then commit any sin you want thinking you can't lose your salvation, because you can.

(Sinning willfully means premeditated, not tempted in the moment- but preplanned).

Are you saying that water baptism is required for salvation?
Your reference to Acts 10:17-18 seems to imply this.
Clarification would be great!

 

[WingsOfFidelity]

is that mean you believe Christian may proud, impatient, but not rape or murder?
look like there are different level of sin, is that what you mean?

I think he is meaning that there are some sins that are very easy to not do, like murder and rape. But the sin that is so common like being impatient or proud are harder to not do. These come with emotions and are of the flesh. The flesh and the spirit are always at war within the man. Paul discribed this of himself.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[OneFaith]

Are you saying that water baptism is required for salvation?
Your reference to Acts 10:17-18 seems to imply this.
Clarification would be great!

There are those who have not been taught the gospel, and know not what to do, but they still have a sense of right and wrong, and have to obey their God-given conscience to the best of their ability.

But for those who are capable of reading the Bible and obeying what it says, yes- the Bible says "baptism saves". During baptism God performs spiritual surgery. He circumcises us by cutting sin from our hearts. (Colossians 2).

The Bible says "He who knows the good he ought to do, and chooses not to do it- sins." Those who know to obey the gospel (baptism) and choose not to, will not be saved even if they believe and pray their whole lives. And those who teach the false doctrine of "belief alone saves", even though they've read 1 Peter 3:21, will have to give an account on judgement day.

Belief (faith) saves- yes.
Repentence saves- yes
Confession saves- yes
Baptism saves- yes

BUT not one of these saves alone.

You can't get baptized without belief- that's just getting wet. And believing something saves you without actually doing it is in vain (useless).

For example, lets say a vicious dog, foaming at the mouth, is chasing you down the street. Your thought is that if you could just get home and shut the door you will be safe. You see your house, run up the walkway, climb the porch steps, open the door, jump inside, and quickly close the door. The wild dog scratches and barks at the door, but you know you're saved.

So, did the sidewalk save you? Well, it lead you to the porch. Did the porch save you? Well it lead you to the door. Did the door save you? Not until you were inside the house. Can the house save you without the porch or sidewalk? No- you need them in order to get in the house. Could you be saved by the sidewalk alone? No- the dog will get you if you're just on the sidewalk. (Belief alone)

But as you passed other houses on the way to yours, you thought, "Wrong walkway, wrong walkway, here this is the right walkway that leads to my house. So you can say "this walkway saves", not those other walkways. But why does it save? Cause it leads to the correct door.

Hearing, believing, repenting, etc, only lead you to what ultimately saves. But baptize is the final step cause it puts you in Christ. Christ shed His blood in His death, we are baptized into His death- where we come in contact with His blood, and that's how we get into Christ.

In order to obey or disobey something, you have to know what it is. For those who understand, yes, baptism is a requirement.

 

[beta]

Wake up my friend. You can no longer sin once you are out of the body, but until then, as long as you walk around in that flesh you have ,you will sin. But remember this. If God had wanted you to worship him with your flesh .,he would have told you so. but he knew you could not and would not. That is why he said you must worship him in truth and in spirit. The spirit man that is within your flesh is what you must worship him with. And the truth is that you are a sinner by nature in the flesh. If you worship him in truth and in spirit,then no matter what the flesh does, as long as you can keep it under submission the best you can, then you are righteous in God's sight. Moses, ABraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a witness to that. The thing is that you must not let your flesh cause you to give up. The race does not go to the swift, or strong, but to the one that endureth to the end. keep fighting my friend.

I am happy to agree with this 'up to a point....yet we are not saved - 'truly born again' until we have 'endured to the end and are 'declared (officially announced) to be the son/daughter of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead. Until then we will be 'imperfect and have a battle on our hands with self ...and also others !

 

[Jackson123]

Romans Chapter seven is not the conclusion of Jesus' finishing work, nor of the growing stages of a believer. This is a relationship with God remember? What does Paul also say after his honesty in the growing process? "Christ Jesus (the law of the spirit of life) set me free from the law of sin and death. (And heres the good stuff)> For what the law was powerless to do in that it (was: past tense) weakened by the sinful nature (or flesh), God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. ... (and so).....He condemned sin in sinful man (and More good stuff)> in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit......those who live in accordance with the Spirit has their minds set on what the Spirit desires....The mind controlled by the spirit is life.

Paul says, he had no confidence, therefore, in the flesh but all the confidence in Christ in becoming His life.

He says, Rejoice in the Lord! Even saying it a second time: REJOICE IN THE LORD! For it is a safeguard in the life lived in opposition to the spirit; and the reason by which he was able to obey His will.. He understood the growing process (in Christ), saying God wasn't done yet in perfecting him, which doesn't mean he went on to accept sin in the slightest, in fact, just the opposite. There was one thing he had decided to do; committed to doing: He pressed on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of him! He pressed on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called heavenward in Christ Jesus. He went on to obey Christ as He showed Him clearly the things he needed and empowered him to do in keeping with his Father's will as he remained in Christ and was a bondservant to righteousness, or the relationship to God via the Spirit.

He concludes: "All of us who are mature should take such a view of things.

are you try to say: in the beginning Paul was sin though he did not want, then God set him free from the law and death.

so you believe Paul was finally sinless while he was alive?

So you believe it is possible for Christian to live a sinless live for let say the last 20 years of his live?

 

[graceNpeace]

There are those who have not been taught the gospel, and know not what to do, but they still have a sense of right and wrong, and have to obey their God-given conscience to the best of their ability.

But for those who are capable of reading the Bible and obeying what it says, yes- the Bible says "baptism saves". During baptism God performs spiritual surgery. He circumcises us by cutting sin from our hearts. (Colossians 2).

The Bible says "He who knows the good he ought to do, and chooses not to do it- sins." Those who know to obey the gospel (baptism) and choose not to, will not be saved even if they believe and pray their whole lives. And those who teach the false doctrine of "belief alone saves", even though they've read 1 Peter 3:21, will have to give an account on judgement day.

Belief (faith) saves- yes.
Repentence saves- yes
Confession saves- yes
Baptism saves- yes

BUT not one of these saves alone.

You can't get baptized without belief- that's just getting wet. And believing something saves you without actually doing it is in vain (useless).

For example, lets say a vicious dog, foaming at the mouth, is chasing you down the street. Your thought is that if you could just get home and shut the door you will be safe. You see your house, run up the walkway, climb the porch steps, open the door, jump inside, and quickly close the door. The wild dog scratches and barks at the door, but you know you're saved.

So, did the sidewalk save you? Well, it lead you to the porch. Did the porch save you? Well it lead you to the door. Did the door save you? Not until you were inside the house. Can the house save you without the porch or sidewalk? No- you need them in order to get in the house. Could you be saved by the sidewalk alone? No- the dog will get you if you're just on the sidewalk. (Belief alone)

But as you passed other houses on the way to yours, you thought, "Wrong walkway, wrong walkway, here this is the right walkway that leads to my house. So you can say "this walkway saves", not those other walkways. But why does it save? Cause it leads to the correct door.

Hearing, believing, repenting, etc, only lead you to what ultimately saves. But baptize is the final step cause it puts you in Christ. Christ shed His blood in His death, we are baptized into His death- where we come in contact with His blood, and that's how we get into Christ.

In order to obey or disobey something, you have to know what it is. For those who understand, yes, baptism is a requirement.

Again, if you are proclaiming water baptism as a salvation requirement - then I am sorry, you are in error.
Baptismal regeneration is NOT Scriptural!

 

[Jackson123]

I think he is meaning that there are some sins that are very easy to not do, like murder and rape. But the sin that is so common like being impatient or proud are harder to not do. These come with emotions and are of the flesh. The flesh and the spirit are always at war within the man. Paul discribed this of himself.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

so your believe sin has no level, killing and impatient is same level, is this what you believe?

 

[graceNpeace]

so your believe sin has no level, killing and impatient is same level, is this what you believe?

Man discriminates, God does not!

 

[beta]

Sin is the flesh. period. It was made to sin from the start,which means it chose it's own way instead of the way of The Lord. That is why God had them in the state of mind they were in from the beginning. Without any knowledge of him, or The Devil.Once they became aware of themselves, they began to sin, because their will was not God's will.

Yes, and it seems God designed this to be, so we can experience both states of good and evil and in the end MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE....it has to come from us continually as we are being converted and growing in His Spirit...until perfected !

 

[Jackson123]

Man discriminates, God does not!

i do not know for sure, when David kill bethzeba, I remember, the Lord punish him, there will be killing in his offspring.

when Moses not obey Him, He punish Moses not enter the promise land, seem to me there is different punishment, it may mean different level of sin.

to be honest, I may wrong, not sure

 

[graceNpeace]

i do not know for sure, when David kill bethzeba, I remember, the Lord punish him, there will be killing in his offspring.

when Moses not obey Him, He punish Moses not enter the promise land, seem to me there is different punishment, it may mean different level of sin.

to be honest, I may wrong, not sure

I am not referring to what happens on earth during peoples lives.
I am talking about the fact that the penalty for sin, any sin, is death.

 

[Jackson123]

I am not referring to what happens on earth during peoples lives.
I am talking about the fact that the penalty for sin, any sin, is death.

Yup I agree, that is what in the Word

 

[Muzungu256]

hmmm i think its new life thats a sign.................

 

[Zen]

Man discriminates, God does not!

discriminate
dɪˈskrɪmɪneɪt/
verb
verb: discriminate; 3rd person present: discriminates; past tense: discriminated; past participle: discriminated; gerund or present participle: discriminating
1.
recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions"

2.
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.


I have issue with man's definition of this word, it implies that God is unjust for having preferences. God only knows Israelites, He doesn't know gentiles and they aren't saved.

To answer your post, God does discriminate.

 

[Meggido]

It most definitely is not!

The reality of sin in our lives cannot be dismissed.
If sin could be completely eradicated from our lives then John would have had absolutely no reason to write this:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

And the apostle Paul would not have said this about himself:

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 7:13-25
This is Paul describing his situation in the present tense, in other words his conflict with sin at the time!

Those who believe in sinless perfection suffer from two possible delusions:
One they radically overestimate their own moral performance; or
Two they radically underestimate the moral demands of the law.

The biggest irony of the situation is that the sinless perfectionists become their own worst enemy - they unwittingly become antinomian because the only way that they can maintain their position is to limit God law to their own performance capability!

Do you believe you have power over sin, or that sin has power over you and you are helpless to do anything about it?

Is SIN a choice or an action to you?

We agree that we will never be sinless or perfect.

 

[Meggido]

Sometime we are overcome by the flesh, but it will not be willful.

This is not true at all....any SIN is willful, because it is a choice and not an action.

If someone cuts you off in traffic and you get angry and use profanity that was a choice...the other driver did not cause you to get angry and use profanity...

If you see a beautiful woman and lust in your heart after her you made a choice, her beauty did not cause you to lust...

If you are given a $5 over in change and do not give it back and keep it as yours, you made a choice...the cashier did not cause you to steal

If your neighbor gets a new truck and it one you always wanted and cannot get and covet it, you made a choice, the neighbor getting the new truck did not cause you to covet...

I get so tired of the other extreme of people that think they are helpless over sin and suggest SIN is an action and not a CHOICE...

Eve made a choice....
Cain made a choice....
Abel made a choice....
David made a choice....

We have an impotent church today because of sin-consciousness teaching...and this teaching makes for very lazy Christians...

We must renew our minds to the Word of God...some of you are so hung up on sin, you forget you were purged from it...2 Peter 1.1-12

We will never be perfect or sinless, but as you spiritually mature there should be times that certain SIN has no dominion over you...

 

[notuptome]

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[graceNpeace]

discriminate
dɪˈskrɪmɪneɪt/
verb
verb: discriminate; 3rd person present: discriminates; past tense: discriminated; past participle: discriminated; gerund or present participle: discriminating
1.
recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions"

2.
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.


I have issue with man's definition of this word, it implies that God is unjust for having preferences. God only knows Israelites, He doesn't know gentiles and they aren't saved.

To answer your post, God does discriminate.

This is utter rubbish...with bells on!

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ​Gal 3:28

11 [FONT=&quot]where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave [/FONT]nor free, but Christ is all and in all. Col 3:11

[FONT=&quot]9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. Rom 3:9

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Rom 3:28-30[/FONT]