Don't blame the law its you.

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#1
Many today like Adam and Eve try to blame their sins on something else other than their own evil hearts.

Today many suggest the law is to blame for sin. However this is not true the law is good as Paul said:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

This of course comes from here:

Neh_9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

The law was never the problem but rather revealed the problem:




Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Here we see that sin that works death in us is made apparent by the law which is good.

Make no mistake Sin and death were before the law as it is written:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sin and death were before the law. The law just makes it easy to see and thus makes us more guilty. For example, If you break the law of the land you are guilty regardless of if you know the law or not. But you are extra guilty when you break it after you know it. sin becomes exceeding sinful when you know the law.

My point is simple If the law is not the problem then changing the law will accomplish nothing. Taking it away will do nothing. taking it away is like saying if I don't tell you your dying then you wont die. It makes no sense.

The law simply points out why you are dying, its sin that is killing you. Sin is the problem what is sin? breaking the law is sin thus the law gives us a knowledge of sin.

Though shalt not steal is not your problem, stealing is your problem.

Though shalt not covet is not your problem, Coveting is your problem.

The same goes for the Sabbath commandment. Keeping the Sabbath as the commandment says is not the problem its not keeping it that is your problem .

The law itself can not help you it just shows you that sin is your problem thus Jesus saves us not from the law but sin. simple. hope that helps.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,818
25,995
113
#2
Through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives
life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
&
The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

&
If we are led by the spirit, we are not under the law.

 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#3
Through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives
life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
&
The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

&
If we are led by the spirit, we are not under the law.

Amen, set free from the law of sin and death, that is true salvation right there.
 

FGT

Banned
May 26, 2017
334
0
0
#5
Don't blame the law its you.


Your spirit is responsible for how you behave in your body.

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#6
Many today like Adam and Eve try to blame their sins on something else other than their own evil hearts.

Today many suggest the law is to blame for sin. However this is not true the law is good as Paul said:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

This of course comes from here:

Neh_9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

The law was never the problem but rather revealed the problem:




Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Here we see that sin that works death in us is made apparent by the law which is good.

Make no mistake Sin and death were before the law as it is written:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sin and death were before the law. The law just makes it easy to see and thus makes us more guilty. For example, If you break the law of the land you are guilty regardless of if you know the law or not. But you are extra guilty when you break it after you know it. sin becomes exceeding sinful when you know the law.

My point is simple If the law is not the problem then changing the law will accomplish nothing. Taking it away will do nothing. taking it away is like saying if I don't tell you your dying then you wont die. It makes no sense.

The law simply points out why you are dying, its sin that is killing you. Sin is the problem what is sin? breaking the law is sin thus the law gives us a knowledge of sin.

Though shalt not steal is not your problem, stealing is your problem.

Though shalt not covet is not your problem, Coveting is your problem.

The same goes for the Sabbath commandment. Keeping the Sabbath as the commandment says is not the problem its not keeping it that is your problem .

The law itself can not help you it just shows you that sin is your problem thus Jesus saves us not from the law but sin. simple. hope that helps.
Great Post gotime !!! clear, concise, easy to understand ! who can refute it ?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#8
When will people stop worshipping at Mount Sinai and move to Mount Zion?
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#10
The only true foundation is Christ Himself. The Old Covenant was a type or a shadow of the real which is Christ Himself.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled "in" us not "by" us. Christ alone is our righteousness and He is joined as one spirit with our spirit in the new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Eph. 4:24

We don't live by a "shadow" anymore - we live by the life of Christ in us. The true Christian has no relation to the law of Moses now that they are in Christ.

The law is definitely NOT our problem - our problem is replacing Christ Himself for the keeping of the law.


Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law!
When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so.
These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.

It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

( This includes the Sabbath Keeping as outlined in the Old Testament, eating certain meats and festivals observance..etc. )

This is an anti-Christ belief system religion which has the "appearance" of good but it is really denying the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work. Hebrews 4:10




In saying this - people are free to observe one day like another or esteem one day over an other - it is their liberty in Christ to do so if they choose but to say that Christians must observe a carnal keeping of the Old Covenant way or they are sinning and dis-obeying God is perverting the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work.
 
Last edited:

Zen

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2015
752
16
18
#11
When will people stop worshipping at Mount Sinai and move to Mount Zion?
Exodus 16:28
And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

2 John 6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#12
Exodus 16:28
And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

2 John 6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Amen.
Those commandments are a far cry more than "believe on Him who has been sent", or loving God & your neighbor.
 

Zen

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2015
752
16
18
#13
The only true foundation is Christ Himself. The Old Covenant was a type or a shadow of the real which is Christ Himself.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled "in" us not "by" us. Christ alone is our righteousness and He is joined as one spirit with our spirit in the new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Eph. 4:24

We don't live by a "shadow" anymore - we live by the life of Christ in us. The true Christian has no relation to the law of Moses now that they are in Christ.

The law is definitely NOT our problem - our problem is replacing Christ Himself for the keeping of the law.


Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law!
When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so.
These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.

It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

( This includes the Sabbath Keeping as outlined in the Old Testament, eating certain meats and festivals observance..etc. )

This is an anti-Christ belief system religion which has the "appearance" of good but it is really denying the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work. Hebrews 4:10




In saying this - people are free to observe one day like another or esteem one day over an other - it is their liberty in Christ to do so if they choose but to say that Christians must observe a carnal keeping of the Old Covenant way or they are sinning and dis-obeying God is perverting the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work.
I'm sure if I checked, I'd find you posting the exact same thing in every single thread. It doesn't matter how many bold letters you use or how many words you underline, you don't seem to understand the thing you are defending.

Your last point is saying that people can choose their own sabbath, which is nonsense because the point of the sabbath was to rest in the day that God made holy. What's the point of resting in the day that isn't made holy? Holy and set apart from creation, literally the 7th day of existence.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

2 John 6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

You can copy and paste "Christians are not under the law" as many times as you like, it doesn't change the fact that we are under commandments, just like Adam was, just like Moses was, Just like David was, just like the apostles were. It's just that they are more liberating and have no Levitical ordinances associated with them.

The original laws were instructions of how they should love God and love their neighbors.
-Their priesthood was earthly, it involved many ordinances and they had to kill animals and even priests died from going in the holiest of holies in the tabernacle.

The laws of Christ are instructions to love God and our neighbors.
-Lord Jesus is our heavenly priest, He paid the price for us and sanctifies us before God, we don't need to kill animals or do ordinances.

Guess what. If you don't follow Christ's commandments, you're going to die--cast out in to outer darkness.

Do you think God was joking when He said there are people who will be sent away for LAWLESSNESS?

Or maybe the issue is semantics that we aren't understanding each other, what you call "liberty in christ" you actually mean "law of Christ"?

Matthew 22:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#14
We don’t always know why people make the decisions they do, what shaped them. Some people come through tough circumstances. Who am I to say why people make the decisions they do.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#15
I'm sure if I checked, I'd find you posting the exact same thing in every single thread. It doesn't matter how many bold letters you use or how many words you underline, you don't seem to understand the thing you are defending.

Your last point is saying that people can choose their own sabbath, which is nonsense because the point of the sabbath was to rest in the day that God made holy. What's the point of resting in the day that isn't made holy? Holy and set apart from creation, literally the 7th day of existence.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

2 John 6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

You can copy and paste "Christians are not under the law" as many times as you like, it doesn't change the fact that we are under commandments, just like Adam was, just like Moses was, Just like David was, just like the apostles were. It's just that they are more liberating and have no Levitical ordinances associated with them.

The original laws were instructions of how they should love God and love their neighbors.
-Their priesthood was earthly, it involved many ordinances and they had to kill animals and even priests died from going in the holiest of holies in the tabernacle.

The laws of Christ are instructions to love God and our neighbors.
-Lord Jesus is our heavenly priest, He paid the price for us and sanctifies us before God, we don't need to kill animals or do ordinances.

Guess what. If you don't follow Christ's commandments, you're going to die--cast out in to outer darkness.

Do you think God was joking when He said there are people who will be sent away for LAWLESSNESS?

Or maybe the issue is semantics that we aren't understanding each other, what you call "liberty in christ" you actually mean "law of Christ"?

Matthew 22:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I will continue to post what Paul says about the law and the New Covenant every time people try to bring Christians under the bondage of the law again.

What is the greatest commandment "in the Law"? Thank God we are not in the Law - nor are we under it anymore as a true Christian is in the New Covenant.

So, what are the 'commandments of God in the New Covenant"? John tells us exactly what they are.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Replacing Christ Himself for the carnal keeping of the law of Moses is an anti-Christ belief system that nullifies the very grace of God that is in Christ's finished work from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

We will not desert Christ to go back to the law of Moses and commit spiritual adultery on our Lord. Rom. 7:1-6

adultery-3.jpg
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#16
I'm sure if I checked, I'd find you posting the exact same thing in every single thread. It doesn't matter how many bold letters you use or how many words you underline, you don't seem to understand the thing you are defending.

Your last point is saying that people can choose their own sabbath, which is nonsense because the point of the sabbath was to rest in the day that God made holy. What's the point of resting in the day that isn't made holy? Holy and set apart from creation, literally the 7th day of existence.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

2 John 6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

You can copy and paste "Christians are not under the law" as many times as you like, it doesn't change the fact that we are under commandments, just like Adam was, just like Moses was, Just like David was, just like the apostles were. It's just that they are more liberating and have no Levitical ordinances associated with them.

The original laws were instructions of how they should love God and love their neighbors.
-Their priesthood was earthly, it involved many ordinances and they had to kill animals and even priests died from going in the holiest of holies in the tabernacle.

The laws of Christ are instructions to love God and our neighbors.
-Lord Jesus is our heavenly priest, He paid the price for us and sanctifies us before God, we don't need to kill animals or do ordinances.

Guess what. If you don't follow Christ's commandments, you're going to die--cast out in to outer darkness.

Do you think God was joking when He said there are people who will be sent away for LAWLESSNESS?

Or maybe the issue is semantics that we aren't understanding each other, what you call "liberty in christ" you actually mean "law of Christ"?

Matthew 22:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Good post my friend ! it's just not getting through to them that we are talking Spiritual Commandments of God while they are still pushing the carnal laws of Moses. Be patient with them !
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#17
Good post my friend ! it's just not getting through to them that we are talking Spiritual Commandments of God while they are still pushing the carnal laws of Moses. Be patient with them !

If a Christian does not observe the Sabbath day as in from Friday night until Saturday - are they sinning and dis-obeying God?
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#18
We don’t always know why people make the decisions they do, what shaped them. Some people come through tough circumstances. Who am I to say why people make the decisions they do.
haha

sometimes I sit myself down to revisit the decisions AFTER the consequences of making them

you learn to pray more about them cause God will allow us to follow through with bad decisions and then we need a ladder to climb out of the hole we dug
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#19
I will continue to post what Paul says about the law and the New Covenant every time people try to bring Christians under the bondage of the law again.

What is the greatest commandment "in the Law"? Thank God we are not in the Law - nor are we under it anymore as a true Christian is in the New Covenant.

So, what are the 'commandments of God in the New Covenant"? John tells us exactly what they are.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Replacing Christ Himself for the carnal keeping of the law of Moses is an anti-Christ belief system that nullifies the very grace of God that is in Christ's finished work from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

We will not desert Christ to go back to the law of Moses and commit spiritual adultery on our Lord. Rom. 7:1-6

The law of Christ has NOTHING to do with the OT law. Your statement has no merit.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#20
People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.

We do have laws in the New Covenant. They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.

There is no greater revelation than to know Him and the Father
and to plumb the depths of their love and grace towards us which Paul says in Eph. 2:7 - the Father will be doing for all the ages to come to us.

Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.

Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:

1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.. Jesus is more then enough
.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.