Are you RIGHTEOUS?
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U
I know I know.... how long can one keep explaining basic gospel truth.
It becomes such a hot mess in some people's hands......
A gift is not really a gift ...it is a partial gift.... it is a promissory note.. it is hold on to it gift or I might take it back gift...
it is a probationary gift, it is a "get to work" gift....and on and on.
There are many scriptures that can be interpreted to say these things but only if you do not understand the work of the cross and what God has done for us.
It becomes such a hot mess in some people's hands......
A gift is not really a gift ...it is a partial gift.... it is a promissory note.. it is hold on to it gift or I might take it back gift...
it is a probationary gift, it is a "get to work" gift....and on and on.
There are many scriptures that can be interpreted to say these things but only if you do not understand the work of the cross and what God has done for us.
Where in the bible does it say we cannot lose salvation?
Why does it speak about branches being cut off?
What are all those IF's about?
How do you explain 2 peter 2:20-21 ???
It speaks about Teachers that have abandoned the faith and are now lost AGAIN.
Please note the word AGAIN.
How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6 ???
How do you explain John 3:16 WHOEVER BELIEVES.... Present Tense. You MUST BELIEVE at the time of Death or you're al lost as one who never believed.
Why does it speak about branches being cut off?
What are all those IF's about?
How do you explain 2 peter 2:20-21 ???
It speaks about Teachers that have abandoned the faith and are now lost AGAIN.
Please note the word AGAIN.
How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6 ???
How do you explain John 3:16 WHOEVER BELIEVES.... Present Tense. You MUST BELIEVE at the time of Death or you're al lost as one who never believed.
But the fact remains that Jesus' workmanship in us and thru us, will employ our will, and by our free will we must obey God in the wake of the spirits guise and Jesus' Lordship and empowerment. We must place our minds in Christ, we must stand against the enemy, and we must submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ doing what He makes clear for us to do.Therefore our spiritual life is that of faith in Christ thru righteousness, which is Christ Himself living in and thru us onwardly; the mark of His Lordship and our obedience is good works being God's directives and purposes and intentions being empowered within us to serve Him.
We not only must try to do His will but we need to do it with confidence (without doubting) knowing He has our back as He commissions us.We must exhaust all of our strength in serving Him in obeying Him in placing our mind and soul and body led by the spirit of God in communication with our spirit, in serving Him. This is Jesus in us as our life as He completes us in maturity; and His will being accomplished by His will of us being Co-workers with Him in our disposition in Christ-likeness. This is righteousness; namely Jesus Christ in us completing us, yet, all the while, we are in the mix excising our will at all times as He empowers and is faithful.
In the John passage when Jesus drew his picture of the vine he knew what he was talking about. The vine was grown all over Palestine as it still is. It is a plant which needs a great deal of attention if the best fruit is to be got out of it. It is grown commonly on terraces. The ground has to be perfectly clean. It is sometimes trained on trellises; it is sometimes allowed to creep over the ground upheld by low forked sticks; it sometimes even grows round the doors of the cottages; but wherever it grows careful preparation of the soil is essential. It grows luxuriantly and drastic pruning is necessary. So luxuriant is it that the slips are set in the ground at least twelve feet apart, for it will creep over the ground at speed. A young vine is not allowed to fruit for the first three years and each year is cut drastically back to develop and conserve its life and energy. When mature, it is pruned in December and January. It bears two kinds of branches, one that bears fruit and one that does not; and the branches that do not bear fruit are drastically pruned back, so that they will drain away none of the plant's strength. The vine can not produce the crop of which it is capable without drastic pruning--and Jesus knew that.
Further, the wood of the vine has the curious characteristic that it is good for nothing. It is too soft for any purpose. At certain times of the year, it was laid down by the law, the people must bring offerings of wood to the Temple for the altar fires. But the wood of the vine must not be brought. The only thing that could be done with the wood pruned out of a vine was to make a bonfire of it and destroy it. This adds to the picture Jesus draws.
He says that his followers are like that. Some of them are lovely fruit-bearing branches of himself; others are useless because they bear no fruit. Who was Jesus thinking of when he spoke of the fruitless branches? There are two answers. First, he was thinking of the Jews. They were branches of God's vine. Was not that the picture that prophet after prophet had drawn? But they refused to listen to him; they refused to accept him; therefore they were withered and useless branches.
Second, he was thinking of something more general. He was thinking of Christians whose Christianity consisted of profession without practice, words without deeds; he was thinking of Christians who were useless branches, all leaves and no fruit. And he was thinking of Christians who became apostates, who heard the message and accepted it and then fell away, becoming traitors to the Master they had once pledged themselves to serve.
So then there are three ways in which we can be useless branches. We can refuse to listen to Jesus Christ at all. We can listen to him, and then render him a lip service unsupported by any deeds. We can accept him as Master, and then, in face of the difficulties of the way or the desire to do as we like, abandon him. One thing we must remember. It is a first principle of the New Testament that uselessness invites disaster. The fruitless branch is on the way to destruction.
We not only must try to do His will but we need to do it with confidence (without doubting) knowing He has our back as He commissions us.We must exhaust all of our strength in serving Him in obeying Him in placing our mind and soul and body led by the spirit of God in communication with our spirit, in serving Him. This is Jesus in us as our life as He completes us in maturity; and His will being accomplished by His will of us being Co-workers with Him in our disposition in Christ-likeness. This is righteousness; namely Jesus Christ in us completing us, yet, all the while, we are in the mix excising our will at all times as He empowers and is faithful.
In the John passage when Jesus drew his picture of the vine he knew what he was talking about. The vine was grown all over Palestine as it still is. It is a plant which needs a great deal of attention if the best fruit is to be got out of it. It is grown commonly on terraces. The ground has to be perfectly clean. It is sometimes trained on trellises; it is sometimes allowed to creep over the ground upheld by low forked sticks; it sometimes even grows round the doors of the cottages; but wherever it grows careful preparation of the soil is essential. It grows luxuriantly and drastic pruning is necessary. So luxuriant is it that the slips are set in the ground at least twelve feet apart, for it will creep over the ground at speed. A young vine is not allowed to fruit for the first three years and each year is cut drastically back to develop and conserve its life and energy. When mature, it is pruned in December and January. It bears two kinds of branches, one that bears fruit and one that does not; and the branches that do not bear fruit are drastically pruned back, so that they will drain away none of the plant's strength. The vine can not produce the crop of which it is capable without drastic pruning--and Jesus knew that.
Further, the wood of the vine has the curious characteristic that it is good for nothing. It is too soft for any purpose. At certain times of the year, it was laid down by the law, the people must bring offerings of wood to the Temple for the altar fires. But the wood of the vine must not be brought. The only thing that could be done with the wood pruned out of a vine was to make a bonfire of it and destroy it. This adds to the picture Jesus draws.
He says that his followers are like that. Some of them are lovely fruit-bearing branches of himself; others are useless because they bear no fruit. Who was Jesus thinking of when he spoke of the fruitless branches? There are two answers. First, he was thinking of the Jews. They were branches of God's vine. Was not that the picture that prophet after prophet had drawn? But they refused to listen to him; they refused to accept him; therefore they were withered and useless branches.
Second, he was thinking of something more general. He was thinking of Christians whose Christianity consisted of profession without practice, words without deeds; he was thinking of Christians who were useless branches, all leaves and no fruit. And he was thinking of Christians who became apostates, who heard the message and accepted it and then fell away, becoming traitors to the Master they had once pledged themselves to serve.
So then there are three ways in which we can be useless branches. We can refuse to listen to Jesus Christ at all. We can listen to him, and then render him a lip service unsupported by any deeds. We can accept him as Master, and then, in face of the difficulties of the way or the desire to do as we like, abandon him. One thing we must remember. It is a first principle of the New Testament that uselessness invites disaster. The fruitless branch is on the way to destruction.
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Not going to rehash your belief....verb tense, the words eternal, everlasting, verbiage, context settles forever this farce of losing salvation....it has been explained to you at least 100 times or more from every angle possible and you still interject yourself and your works over the completed works of Christ and his PROMISES......
abide:
~G3306
μένω
menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
Total KJV occurrences: 120
This is the postion that we are in...in Him. Remain in Him and trust in nothing else.
I don't see why you think that previous post was in error. I think it's grandpa's but I forget things fast.
Am old ya know. (I can get away with this) tee hee.
~G3306
μένω
menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
Total KJV occurrences: 120
This is the postion that we are in...in Him. Remain in Him and trust in nothing else.
I don't see why you think that previous post was in error. I think it's grandpa's but I forget things fast.
Am old ya know. (I can get away with this) tee hee.
U
Well So many have already it explained, Jesus died and was resurrected and His work saves my soul and gives me a new spirit in Him.
Ultimately yes His words and Paul's and others all teach this simple truth FIRST.....
FIRST ...He asks that I come to Him empty handed and believe and accept His full pardon based on His work because I could never meet His holy standard, and I am at that moment born again into eternal life.
But yes I deny any false gospel that adds works to salvation at the FIRST or as a way to maintain the FIRST.
SECOND is about living as a new creation in Christ.
But you confuse the two and therefore the Good news is not really the Good news.
Ultimately yes His words and Paul's and others all teach this simple truth FIRST.....
FIRST ...He asks that I come to Him empty handed and believe and accept His full pardon based on His work because I could never meet His holy standard, and I am at that moment born again into eternal life.
But yes I deny any false gospel that adds works to salvation at the FIRST or as a way to maintain the FIRST.
SECOND is about living as a new creation in Christ.
But you confuse the two and therefore the Good news is not really the Good news.
That was my point.
Jesus died for all and to think otherwise is wrong.
We love him because he first loved us.
If God knew who would believe in him then he may as well clicked his fingers and say "Ok no need for Jesus to die because I know they will believe in him"
Yes he loves everyone, even those who won't accept him. When he was hanging on the cross he prayed "Father forgive them cause they got know idea what they are doing"
When he rose again and went back to the Father we find the most chief of sinners 'Paul'
Paul would have driven those nails into Jesus given the chance.
Yet we find the risen Jesus seek him out and the rest is history.
I was trying to bring out the point you were trying to make.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son.
That is the whole world and every person who inhabits it and has inhabited it.
Jesus died for all and to think otherwise is wrong.
We love him because he first loved us.
If God knew who would believe in him then he may as well clicked his fingers and say "Ok no need for Jesus to die because I know they will believe in him"
Yes he loves everyone, even those who won't accept him. When he was hanging on the cross he prayed "Father forgive them cause they got know idea what they are doing"
When he rose again and went back to the Father we find the most chief of sinners 'Paul'
Paul would have driven those nails into Jesus given the chance.
Yet we find the risen Jesus seek him out and the rest is history.
I was trying to bring out the point you were trying to make.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son.
That is the whole world and every person who inhabits it and has inhabited it.
I see nothing about the Helper who is called alongside of us to help. Also the Word of testimony for the Word is life and Spirit.
Did you mention that we are dead to sin, and alive to God through the Cross? I don't think so.
Where's the power that God sends His people?
I feel sorry for you and Fran liked this so I feel sorry for her too. You guys are going to wear yourselves out. Plus become bitter and judgemental if you haven't already.
Did you mention that we are dead to sin, and alive to God through the Cross? I don't think so.
Where's the power that God sends His people?
I feel sorry for you and Fran liked this so I feel sorry for her too. You guys are going to wear yourselves out. Plus become bitter and judgemental if you haven't already.
I don't confuse anything UnderGrace.
When you hear that nothing is to be added to Jesus' sacrifice it does not mean works.
JESUS EXPECTS WORKS. I'm not going to post anymore scripture because it's a waste of time. Just read through the N.T. again and pay attention this time.
What it DOES mean is that the cross covers everything and nothing is to be added to Christ's work.
HIS WORK OF SALVATION.
IOW, HE ALONE SAVES. Nothing else is needed.
Some churches think you're not saved unless you're baptized.
Some churches think you're not saved if you don't speak in tongues.
Other stuff like this. This is what is meant by not adding anything to Christ's finished work.
HIS WORK IS FINISHED.
There is nothing MORE to be done.
BUT HE DOES EXPECT YOU TO DO WHAT HE COMMANDED.
Fin.
When you hear that nothing is to be added to Jesus' sacrifice it does not mean works.
JESUS EXPECTS WORKS. I'm not going to post anymore scripture because it's a waste of time. Just read through the N.T. again and pay attention this time.
What it DOES mean is that the cross covers everything and nothing is to be added to Christ's work.
HIS WORK OF SALVATION.
IOW, HE ALONE SAVES. Nothing else is needed.
Some churches think you're not saved unless you're baptized.
Some churches think you're not saved if you don't speak in tongues.
Other stuff like this. This is what is meant by not adding anything to Christ's finished work.
HIS WORK IS FINISHED.
There is nothing MORE to be done.
BUT HE DOES EXPECT YOU TO DO WHAT HE COMMANDED.
Fin.