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Thread: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

  1. #481


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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    I hate it too!

    I've asked a question many times, even of you, and have never received an answer.
    You know this tactic well...
    well, when I answer your questions you tell me not to, that the question " had a purpose". then you say you don't ask " gottcha " questions " . you are all over the place!!!

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    Senior Member UnderGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?


    I always, always answer, cause that's how my momma taught me to be , but sometimes I just get tired of answering the same questions or others have already done it.

    I have a bit of time now go for it, what is your question, but just so you know I am not a theologian.


    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    I hate it too!

    I've asked a question many times, even of you, and have never received an answer.
    You know this tactic well...
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Tactic....hmm.... I am not that smart..... or should I say deceptive.

    Let me say it this way, what I know I know well, like John 3 1-16 and Ephesian 2:9 and what I do not know never contradicts this basic truth so it does not really matter.

    Like the blind man said "this is all I know, I was blind now I see" we can expound theology til we all drop, but at the end of

    the day it is His Holy Spirit that really gives us the ability to discern and know truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    I hate it too!

    I've asked a question many times, even of you, and have never received an answer.
    You know this tactic well...
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

  4. #484
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post

    I always, always answer, cause that's how my momma taught me to be , but sometimes I just get tired of answering the same questions or others have already done it.

    I have a bit of time now go for it, what is your question, but just so you know I am not a theologian.
    Computer down. Can't type on this thing.
    Heres the question...

    Are we required to obey God?

    It's a simple yes or no answer.
    Two here have answered it but it took a while page.
    And I'M "deceptive"??.

    Does God want us to obey or not?
    Simple.
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

    U2 Unforgettable Fire

  5. #485
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    well, when I answer your questions you tell me not to, that the question " had a purpose". then you say you don't ask " gottcha " questions " . you are all over the place!!!
    I don't ask "gotcha" questions.
    I ask questions for a purpose.
    What's the purpose?
    It's not to deceive.
    It's to make people think.
    I've taught our faith. I find this to be a normal method
    In having conversation that is not just chatter.
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

    U2 Unforgettable Fire

  6. #486
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    LOL I really do worry about you my friend. Code for I'm holier than thou and I'm here to help you be just like me.
    Yes.....that's it.

    I don't fall for spiritual manipulation. My favorite one that is used by the Judazing spirit is "Don't you love Jesus?" I'm only giving you the word of God. Why don't you believe the word of God?

    This is just an attempt at witchcraft which is really a work of the flesh. Ga. 5:19.

    The "code" for this is - if you don't agree that Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if they don't follow the Sabbath as in the Old Testament - then you don't love Jesus nor do you believe God's word.

    I don't fall for these spiritual manipulation attempts. We are not ignorant of these types of schemes and devices.

    Galatians 3:1-3 (NASB)
    1
    You foolish Galatians,who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

    2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

    3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
    dcontroversal and UnderGrace like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  7. #487
    Senior Member PennEd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Computer down. Can't type on this thing.
    Heres the question...

    Are we required to obey God?

    It's a simple yes or no answer.
    Two here have answered it but it took a while page.
    And I'M "deceptive"??.

    Does God want us to obey or not?
    Simple.
    Fran, the premise of the question is deceptive. NOT saying you did that on purpose.

    But required for what? Obeying what?
    Are you asking if works are required for Salvation?
    Are you asking if obeying THE Gospel unto Salvation is required?

    So let's just stick with one. OBEDIENCE IN BELIEVING WHO JESUS IS, AND WHAT HE HAS DONE, IS REQUIRED.

  8. #488
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    Fran, the premise of the question is deceptive. NOT saying you did that on purpose.

    But required for what? Obeying what?
    Are you asking if works are required for Salvation?
    Are you asking if obeying THE Gospel into Salvation is required?

    So let's just stick with one. OBEDIENCE IN BELIEVING WHO JESUS IS, AND WHAT HE HAS DONE, IS REQUIRED.
    Amen Ed...we are called to be obedient to the faith - which is to believe in Christ and all that He has done. To cease from our own works and to enter into His.

    Hebrews 4:9-11 (KJV)
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

    11
    Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.




    Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

    Notice here that even the good moral living law-keeping priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being
    "obedient to the faith".

    Acts 6:7 (NASB)
    7 The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were
    becoming obedient to the faith.


    Pagans/Gentiles also need to
    be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

    Romans 1:5 (NASB)
    5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about
    the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


    All people of all types are called to be "
    obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

    Romans 16:26 (NASB)
    26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
    leading to obedience of faith;
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  9. #489
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    Fran, the premise of the question is deceptive. NOT saying you did that on purpose.

    But required for what? Obeying what?
    Are you asking if works are required for Salvation?
    Are you asking if obeying THE Gospel unto Salvation is required?

    So let's just stick with one. OBEDIENCE IN BELIEVING WHO JESUS IS, AND WHAT HE HAS DONE, IS REQUIRED.
    See, I can't get a reply.

    Why is the premise wrong?
    God has always demanded obedience from those who know Him.
    Those who do Not know him care nothing about obeying Him.

    So we need not ask For What...and answer a question with a question.

    If we're asking about obeying God we must be saved.
    So...we're saved.

    Same question...

    Does God require obedience?
    LoveGodForever likes this.
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

    U2 Unforgettable Fire

  10. #490
    Senior Member FranC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Amen Ed...we are called to be obedient to the faith - which is to believe in Christ and all that He has done. To cease from our own works and to enter into His.

    Hebrews 4:9-11 (KJV)
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

    11
    Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.




    Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

    Notice here that even the good moral living law-keeping priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being
    "obedient to the faith".

    Acts 6:7 (NASB)
    7 The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were
    becoming obedient to the faith.


    Pagans/Gentiles also need to
    be "obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

    Romans 1:5 (NASB)
    5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about
    the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


    All people of all types are called to be "
    obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

    Romans 16:26 (NASB)
    26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
    leading to obedience of faith;
    Can't type too much right now...

    What are "His works"??
    Walk till you Run
    And don't look back
    For HERE...I AM

    U2 Unforgettable Fire

  11. #491
    Senior Member PennEd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    See, I can't get a reply.

    Why is the premise wrong?
    God has always demanded obedience from those who know Him.
    Those who do Not know him care nothing about obeying Him.

    So we need not ask For What...and answer a question with a question.

    If we're asking about obeying God we must be saved.
    So...we're saved.

    Same question...

    Does God require obedience?
    I just answered Fran. God requires us to be obedient to THE GOSPEL. We MUST Believe who Jesus is and what HE has done.

  12. #492
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Here are the "works of the Lord Jesus Christ for all of us that believe."

    Peter spoke them out to the Gentiles here in Acts 10.

    Acts 10:38-44 (NASB)
    38 "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

    39 "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

    40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

    41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

    42 "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.

    43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
    44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

    The Holy Spirit responds to the message of "believing in Christ's work for the forgiveness of sins."

    Paul spoke out the very same message of Christ to the Jews who were basing their life on what they did and didn't do by the keeping of the law of Moses which is a works-based salvation and is works-righteousness - instead of faith-righteousness.

    Acts 13:37-39 (NASB)
    37 but He whom God raised did not undergo decay.

    38 "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

    39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
    PennEd and dcontroversal like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  13. #493
    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    For salvation?

    We're still at this point?

    Do works save us?

    You walk slowly my friend.

    Why do we keep doing this, Lets see...

    1. you keep asking the same ole question which get answered, and you deny it is answered, Then you slander us and say we do not believe works are required

    It goes something like this,

    Fran... "Are works required?"

    Responder, "For salvation, No, But for sanctification, and christian growth? Yes, "

    Fran.. (in a serious voice) "You do not believe works are required."

    Over and over again.

    PS. If salvation can be lost due to a lack of works, then you believe in salvation by works, no matter how you try to twist it.

    so number 3. You teach salvation by works. so I ask, so I can hopefully get you to admit what is the truth of your belief.
    gb9 and dcontroversal like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    I hate it too!

    I've asked a question many times, even of you, and have never received an answer.
    You know this tactic well...
    Another lie, You have been answered over and over, You just do not like the answer..

    I sometimes have to wonder if you are being serious, or just playin games, because you think it is funny..
    dcontroversal likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    Computer down. Can't type on this thing.
    Heres the question...

    Are we required to obey God?

    It's a simple yes or no answer.
    Two here have answered it but it took a while page.
    And I'M "deceptive"??.

    Does God want us to obey or not?
    Simple.

    It is a loaded question, You can not just ask if works or obedience is required. (is it required for salvation, For sanctification, For justification, For being born again, For receiving eternal life, For getting to heaven, there are many open ended possibilities you could be asking) You have to say for what.

    No one is going to say yes and no, only to have you or someone else twist what they say,

    Don't expect people to answer your open ended question, Until they ask what the closed end of your question is.

    Thats why many have asked, for what. You refuse to answer, so do not then expect them to answer you.
    PennEd likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Senior Member dcontroversal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    I just answered Fran. God requires us to be obedient to THE GOSPEL. We MUST Believe who Jesus is and what HE has done.
    I noticed you answered it and I agree......What does the FATHER require.....Believe on him whom he hath sent......rather simple at the end of the day......!

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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by PennEd View Post
    Fran, the premise of the question is deceptive. NOT saying you did that on purpose.

    But required for what? Obeying what?
    Are you asking if works are required for Salvation?
    Are you asking if obeying THE Gospel unto Salvation is required?

    So let's just stick with one. OBEDIENCE IN BELIEVING WHO JESUS IS, AND WHAT HE HAS DONE, IS REQUIRED.
    John 8:24
    Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

    John 6:39-40

    This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    PennEd and Grace777x70 like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    See, I can't get a reply.

    Why is the premise wrong?
    God has always demanded obedience from those who know Him.
    Those who do Not know him care nothing about obeying Him.

    So we need not ask For What...and answer a question with a question.

    If we're asking about obeying God we must be saved.
    So...we're saved.

    Same question...

    Does God require obedience?
    For what? If your not going to answer, do not expect to get an answer. It is being deceptive.
    UnderGrace likes this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    It is a loaded question, You can not just ask if works or obedience is required. (is it required for salvation, For sanctification, For justification, For being born again, For receiving eternal life, For getting to heaven, there are many open ended possibilities you could be asking) You have to say for what.

    No one is going to say yes and no, only to have you or someone else twist what they say,

    Don't expect people to answer your open ended question, Until they ask what the closed end of your question is.

    Thats why many have asked, for what. You refuse to answer, so do not then expect them to answer you.
    I would say you are required to obey God.

    Not "try" to obey God. Actually obey Him.

    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    And then when you can't do it ask why not. Ask for His Help and His Understanding. Maybe a person will understand Christianity if they do these things.

    John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

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    Senior Member Stephen63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you RIGHTEOUS?

    James 1:2Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

    V 5 show a continuing of previous verses, indicating continual faith is needed to come to completeness, which the author shows we're not yet.

    Testing strengthens faith, completes faith, promotes maturity, etc.

    Spiritual instability shows itself in immaturity, lack of wisdom, lack of self-control, etc. It can show a bully attitude, an attitude of arrogance & superiority over others.

    Spiritual instability is the result of not exercising faith.

    Look at the BDF & see it as it is.

    I see mine, & confess it..... might as well come clean. If I judge myself, I need no one else to judge me.


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