Are you RIGHTEOUS?

LoveGodForever · Jul 17, 2017

Hi UG,

Absolutely I have not changed of mind at all. I have always had the same belief in God's Word. It is just that some others here trying to say I believe something that I do not despite me telling them so. I have always had the same mind as to the Word of God. We cannot and are not saved by the things we can do, and never have been saved this way or no do we receive salvation this way. The point I am making is that with out God's Law (10 commandments) we do not know what sin is. It is what brings us to Jesus as sinners in need of a savior. The maintaining is also the work of God in us as we have complete dependence on the Word of God and by Faith believe God's Word. He is the God of creation and creates in us a new Heart (Heb 8:10-12) to love him and our fellow man. Because we love him we follow him and do what he asks us to do (John 14:15).

God bless you

graceNpeace · Jul 17, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

And this all sounds fairly plausible....

Until we get to Sabbath observance - and then the story changes to this: all those who do not observe the Sabbath will wear the mark of the beast and are hence condemned!

IN OTHER WORDS - SALVATION BY WORKS!!!!

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2017

Do you know that it is the Grace of God living in us via His Holy Spirit that is able to
train us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age?

Do you know that the ten commandments while it can show us sin, it cannot help us live a life that abides in Christ as the source of victory?

So then why not speak of his Grace which is our living water rather then the ten commandments which were written in stone?

Just curious...why settle for less, I did that and I was miserable.

LoveGodForever said:

LoveGodForever · Jul 17, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Not at all. The 7th Day Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments (Ex 20:8-11). We keep it Holy because we love Jesus (John 14:15) and he asks us to keep it. The Sabbath was made for mankind (Mark 2:27) and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) so we follow Jesus because we love him because he saves us.

God bless

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2017

I will keep that in mind....I am learning there is always some little twist

graceNpeace said:

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2017

nope nope nope....well how about that you almost had me fooled...keeping the sabbath to show Jesus we love Him...honestly!!

LoveGodForever said:

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2017

Okay you let me know when you agree to post #623

LoveGodForever said:

dcontroversal · Jul 17, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and let his disciples pick wheat (corn) on that day......and last time I checked....I want to see verses that state we must keep it as Gentile believers....(yeah I know)............

I have had a more than a few tell me I could not be saved if I did not keep the Sabbath.....there is a name for that...called Pharisee(ism)

UnderGrace · Jul 17, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Yes it absolutely sheds new light on this post by Grace777!!! Judazing spirits, code, witchcraft INDEED!!

LoveGodForever · Jul 17, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Hi UnderGrace,

Absolutely!! This is all I have been saying. It is God who works in us (Phil 13) because we love him and have faith in God's Word. As we believe God this is what it means to walk in the Spirit (new mind) (Rom 8: 1-13) so that we can love Jesus and follow him. Back soon guys lunch time my end. My belly is grumpy

God bless you all

AbigailZeke · Jul 18, 2017

"Are you righteous?" YES I AM Romans 10:4!

joaniemarie · Jul 18, 2017

AbigailZeke said:

Hi Abigail., this is Ladylynn good to see you again! I know you understand the meaning of our righteousness so I'm encouraged you are here!!

We know that righteousness is a gift received., so all who have received Jesus Christ as Savior are 100% righteous due to His gift of righteousness. We live the Christian life as we have received Christ., by grace through faith.

This also reminds me of many other verses that us Christians have gotten mixed up and confused by because "working" is our way to all things in the natural realm of our lives. We have been taught in the world when you work hard, you get what is due you. This is a good work ethic...respected by all. And so this spills over into our religion too where it doesn't belong.

I never understood until much later in my Christian experience that the life of the Spirit teaches us that everything we have is by and through Christ. We live and move and have our being in Christ. The life of the Spirit is not "due" us based on our work ethic., it's a gift given to us that is impossible to earn with our obedience of the law. It's by the obedience of faith. And when we walk in faith we then are able to bear much fruit.

The Bible verse I'm thinking about especially that applies to our righteousness along with others here on this thread is 1 John 5:1-12 This needs to be read and believed for what is being said to us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle John.

[h=1]1 John 5American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] 5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

[SUP]6 [/SUP]This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not [SUP][a][/SUP]with the water only, but [SUP][b][/SUP]with the water and [SUP][c][/SUP]with the blood.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for the witness of God is this, that he hath borne witness concerning his Son.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

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Our standing is based (not) on our works after we got saved. Our standing is based on Jesus (when) we got saved. This is what so many Christians have a hard time believing and holding on to. I know I did for so many years and I was considered a mature believer. And that is why for most of the time I had no peace and no ability to do the things I so wanted to do for Jesus after all He did for me. In the natural realm of things we can't handle the truth of what Jesus brought vs what Mosses brought. Jesus brought us grace and truth. John 1:17
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17 [/SUP]For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

When John tells us that we love God when we obey His commandments and they are not grievous it's because when we walk IN and BY the Spirit in our true identity in Christ., we are new creations, old things have passed away., all things have become new. We are then walking in the Spirit not in the flesh. When we live and move and have our being IN Christ we then are able to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. But when we "depend" on our ability to work well to please Him, we then are walking in the flesh.

We have to give Jesus His due. It is Him who gives us our right standing not our ability to obey and do the works. This is a spiritual truth that takes hearing over and over before it can take root inside. So deep is the good work ethic of us good and moral humans. Our reasonable service is to BELIEVE only then can we bear fruit. Only then can the life of the Spirit work in us. For it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil.2:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

It's not our mind of meat that causes us to desire the life of the Spirit. It's the Spirit that works in us. And it's our response as new creations to hear Him. The ability to do His will comes from Him not our flesh with it's reasoning power.

What we get to do is say yes to Him. We believe and He does the work. What kind of a deal is that? It's an amazing one. Unlike any deal we will ever get on planet earth from anyone. And it even has to be heard and learned over and over by us daily because it is so out of our natural sphere of reason to believe. It's a spiritual truth gained by being taught by the Holy Spirit. But we have to be willing to believe and by faith walk it out each day.

We don't take credit for this. We get to have all these things when we believe and have faith in the love of God in Christ. All we have., all we are comes from Jesus. The Holy Spirit always points to Jesus. Why do believers shun this when we live our lives as Christians? Why do we think it is US who does this and US who must do this for it to count? And why won't believers here on this thread accept the truth that our righteousness does not come by the obedience of the law? Why is it so hard to believe our righteousness comes by the obedience of faith that Jesus did it all from start to finish?. It is then by grace through faith the fruits of the Spirit will be shown through us. Then we bear much fruit. Otherwise, we are just living a good moral Christian life in our own strength (apart) from the life of the Spirit working in us. Apart from What Jesus was talking about in John 7:38-39

[SUP]
38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Me], as the Scripture has said, ‘From his innermost being will flow continually rivers of living water.’” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But He was speaking of the [Holy] Spirit, whom those who believed in Him [as Savior] were to receive afterward. The Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).

Those continual rivers of living water in our innermost being come not from looking at us and how well we obeyed the moral laws of living. They come from the obedience of faith., that Jesus is the One we adhere to believing in., trust in completely, lean on for all we are and all we have. Not our obedience but HIS obedience. Amen!!!! Jesus deserves our honor and our praise. He deserves all credit for all good things we do or ever hope to do.

graceNpeace · Jul 18, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

With the greatest of respect you have already told me in a different thread that if I did not keep the Sabbath I was hell-bound!

Additionally the ten commandments is part of the law that is no longer binding (all of that law) on new covenant believers.
None of your game playing with terms like "law of God" versus "law of Moses" stands scrutiny.
These terms exist in Scripture but have none of the specificity you claim since they are used interchangeably to refer to the same things.

I think you are used to dealing with SDA people who are not used to thinking for themselves - I know all about Sabbath schools and how they are conducted to carefully indoctrinate members into the "correct" understanding.

The holes in your doctrine start with this ridiculous concept that there is a difference between the "law of God" and the law of Moses" and go from there...
Must be really hard to get the Bible to line up with all the silly stuff from Ellen White!

joaniemarie · Jul 18, 2017

This is the first post of this thread. It is an amazing truth to know that we look to the "obedience of Christ" not our own obedience. It ties into the same things being said by those who know our righteousness is IN Christ., not in ourselves. Read the Bible verse that says we look to the OBEDIENCE of Christ. 2 Cor. 10:5
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]casting down [SUP][a][/SUP]imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ;

Not so long ago I was first introduced to what that means even though I've been a believer since 1982. It's being IN Christ having Jesus be "our Person" standing in "for us". After that, it's a daily journey about seeing just how much Jesus actually stands in for us. Many Christians are like I was and still proceeded a head in life in and about "self"

When we were not saved., Adam was our stand-in guy. We went before God in Adam and were not even in God's beloved family. So all our righteousness's were as filthy rags. We didn't even do anything but be born and live and become aware of God. We didn't do any good things or bad things we were just in Adam and outside of Christ. So when we heard the Gospel of our salvation that Jesus went on the cross on our behalf and died shedding His blood we learned He paid for all our sins making us totally worthy to go before the Father and to be recipients of His grace and truth forever after.

I was reading yet again of how majorly important the knowledge of being righteous IN Christ is. Actually I read it daily and because it is so shockingly unearthly I often forget it in my human self if I don't read it daily and allow the Holy Spirit to minister to my spirit that I am a son of God. But the Bible says to be aware of Christ's obedience at the cross. Most of us are living lives of being aware of our own obedience.

We have been taught to look at 'our' obedience and it has become a religious past time. Actually it is fought about among people who are Christians every day. I see it on these forums on CC all the time and actually whenever I come here the forums are slathered with believers who fight to look at their own righteousness and want others to look at their own righteousness. And even believe it's unholy to look to Christ's obedience and not our own as our pass port to God's hand in everything we are and do in our lives here while on earth.

In reading yesterdays devotional it reminded me yet again and I neeed to be reminded again and again because in my humaness I am distorted and negative. The Bible says in 2 Corinthians 10:5

Casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

That verse does not mean as most of us have been taught from day one in our Christian lives to cast down arguments and evil things by learning to think like Jesus. No., that comes later. What that verse does mean is when we fail., when life is fearful and when things in this world become and are overwhelming bigger than our ability to fix in all areas of our lives personally., corporately and universally., the answer is to bring our thoughts into captivity and think instead about the obedience of Christ. Romans 5:19 says;

For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Many of us continue to be mislead into thinking it's by our obedience we have been made righteous. I see the devil do this all the time with people of faith. he wants us to look at ourselves and then he can freely condemn us because who knows better than us how loathsome we really are? Yet., because we are not IN Christ and 100% righteous and 100% IN the family now we are no longer our standard. Adam is no longer our standard bearer. Jesus is. There is no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1-2 Because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

This truth will free the persons who take it to live a life of faith. And in that we will bear a lot of fruit because it's the fruit of the Spirit not the fruit of the flesh. In living by the Spirit we will be walking testimonies of what Jesus has done in our lives and the good works come as an effect of our right standing IN Christ. Not our right standing in ourselves.

I hope to challenge many here in the Bible forum to consider this and see how different your Christian life will be when you are actually looking to Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Grace777x70 · Jul 18, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Amen. And we will stand against this error because this nullifies the very grace of God in Christ and exchanges Christ Himself for the carnal keeping of an obsolete covenant.

People are free in Christ to observe any day or feast...etc how they choose but when the Judaizer spirit comes in to pervert the gospel by saying "Christians who do not observe the Sabbath as in the Old Testament way are sinning and dis-obeying God." - we will stand against this false doctrine and expose that spirit for what it really is.

As Joaniemarie says in the OP - Jesus is our righteousness not the "keeping of the law."

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

This includes the carnal keeping of the Sabbath day as in the law. Christ Himself is our true Sabbath rest as Hebrews 4 and Col. 2 tells us.

gb9 · Jul 18, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

there is a lot of Believers that need to learn the concept of " live and let live ". if something is not expressly spelled out in God's word, then don't have do-it-or-burn attitude.

as grace said, if one wants to observe the O. T. dietary laws, Sabbaths, festivals , etc.. then go ahead. but start saying that " everyone has to... or no one should"....

mailmandan · Jul 18, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Hi mailmandan,

No one is saying the Gospel is a set of rituals, laws of check lists that we achieve salvation by, especially me. I believe you are on the right track but have you considered these scriptures that were before the death and resurrection of Jesus just after the Baptism of Jesus by John?

Mar 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mar 8:35
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Mat 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people

Mat 11:5
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 7:22
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

Luk 20:1
And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders

Well there is many more of the same. So let me ask the question again.. what is the Gospel?

God bless

I already told you that the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Are you implying there is a distinction between the gospel of the kingdom (which is for Israel) and the gospel of grace (which is for the Church) as taught in certain dispensational camps? Is that where you are going with this?

mailmandan · Jul 18, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant. Even when Christians set out to worship on the Sabbath, they aren’t truly "keeping the Sabbath." To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament would involve compliance with regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath-day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). These were commanded by God to the sons of Israel. If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person say he keeps a certain law when he keeps only part of it?

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh-day Adventist church? The State? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under the Mosaic regulations.

St. Paul said in Galatians 4:9-11: "...You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

In Romans 14:1-23, the Apostle Paul says: "... One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.." In other words, for the Christian, the Apostle is saying that no day is to be regarded holier than another.

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

LoveGodForever · Jul 18, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Hi graceNpeace,

How are you today my friend? I think you made similar accusations about me earlier somewhere. Yet I asked you to show me one post that I have ever made where I have ever said to you that you were going to Hell if you did not keep the Sabbath? To date you have not shown me this so called post. If I have never said this to you why do you feel the need to keep going around telling people I have said things I have never said? This is actually quite disappointing to receive this treatment from anyone, let alone someone in a Christian website.

I study God’s Word for myself as I hope everyone does for themselves as well. All I hope to do is to share the Word of God. If you want to talk about scripture I am happy to do so in a kind, loving and civil manner. If you just want to throw stones and false accusations about me, like some other people here then you’re better off finding someone else to play with. If you would like to start off by answering these few posts of mine in relation to the Laws of God, then we can go from there. If you would like to share God’s Word I am happy to chat with you. Links provided below;

God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)
God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)

God bless you.

LoveGodForever · Jul 18, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Hi Grace777,

I hope you don’t mind, like I said earlier I am not interested in talking about all your witchcraft, secret codes, Judazing spirits or whatever else you want to accuse me of. If you would like to talk about the Word of God in a kind, civil and loving way I am happy to share God’s Word with you. If not then you are better off talking to someone else. Thanks

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