Page 26 of 26 FirstFirst ... 16242526
Results 501 to 520 of 520
Like Tree256Likes

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

  1. #501
    Banned
    Join Date
    October 28th, 2017
    Age
    60
    Posts
    191
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Johnny, be good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_B View Post
    Sister you missed his main point of this thread. He is going to push his belief on everyone and if you do not agree with him, he will be condesending towards you. Even thou he said it was only a study in the Torah and explained what the Torah is, then he posts Scripture that is not in the Torah but in the New Testament, that should show you where his misunderstanding lies.
    Rainrider isn't pushing his belief, he is doing a study, which is a good thing.
    And we are supposed to compare scripture to scripture,
    and use scripture to interpret scripture.
    Jesus and St Paul teach us the law.

    Anybody who doesn't like it doesn't have to read it, doesn't even have to open this thread.
    That's hardly pushing it on anyone.
    Pushing is when you go to their thread, and push your ideas there.

    And, you can talk to Rainrider, if you have questions about his commentary.
    If you do, you find he isn't condescending.
    Rather, I found he is blessed by Jesus, and is a kind man.
    And he has a big dedication to the word.

    Not many people have the love of God to do what Rainrider is doing.

    Bless Jesus
    Paul
    Hizikyah likes this.

  2. #502
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    March 28th, 2016
    Age
    69
    Posts
    4,110
    Rep Power
    69

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by comingfrom View Post
    Johnny, be good.
    Rainrider isn't pushing his belief, he is doing a study, which is a good thing.
    And we are supposed to compare scripture to scripture,
    and use scripture to interpret scripture.
    Jesus and St Paul teach us the law.

    Anybody who doesn't like it doesn't have to read it, doesn't even have to open this thread.
    That's hardly pushing it on anyone.
    Pushing is when you go to their thread, and push your ideas there.

    And, you can talk to Rainrider, if you have questions about his commentary.
    If you do, you find he isn't condescending.
    Rather, I found he is blessed by Jesus, and is a kind man.
    And he has a big dedication to the word.

    Not many people have the love of God to do what Rainrider is doing.

    Bless Jesus
    Paul
    Hi Paul. What’s the difference between a ceremonial law and a moral law? What’s the difference between walking by sight after the temporal and walking by faith, the unseen eternal?

    Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:13

    Well of course we are supposed to compare scripture to scripture, and use scripture to interpret scripture. But it’s not comparing the letter of the word to the letter as that seen. It shows we a dead in our trespasses and sins without hope and without God.

    We compare the spirit of the word, not seen to the spirit of the word not seen .Its called the law of faith.

    One way to find it is it is hid in parables .Compare the spiritual understanding to the spiritual . Called faith to faith, for it is the power or authority of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.(exercises the faith that comes from hearing God. )

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom 1:16

    If you compare that seen to that seen, the literal shadows like in the ceremonial laws become substance before there time . It’s how the apostate Jews turned things upside down to takes away the understanding of the Potter.

    Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

    I would suggest not to worshiping shadows, and expect substance. The reformation has come and you are still offering Bullock as if it has not. .What’s up with that?

    The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Heb 9:8


    What I hear is the bleating of sheep in my ears? Like Samuel said..What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?"
    Last edited by garee; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:07 AM.

  3. #503
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex 10; 1-20
    As move into this chapter, I am once more going to change things up a bit. Rather than posting every verse, I can fit more info in, by simply giving the number, and moving on. I am in hope that you are going to read that is being talked of on your own. If not, my posting it will not change that.

    As we read in verse 1, Pharaoh and his servants are named. This may be imply that when Pharaoh was ready to give in, his servants helped to bolster his resolve to not let them go. In verse 2 HaShem also wished to make known all of the plagues He had for Egypt, so that it would be told to all His children. That would also include us today. In Israel, Passover is a happy time, this story is read, and talk about at most tables.

    In 3 we find that Pharaoh is asked, Until when will you refuse to be humbled before Me? As we should know, being humbled, is key to repentance, and righteousness is submissiveness before HaShem. As is made known of Pharaoh, he was rather arrogant as this blinded him from the truth.

    Chapter 5 seems a bit odd. One may left to think that all the trees were killed in the Hail, however,This never said. We are told every tree is smashed, yet having seen some bad hail storms in my times, I can say, that it may look like a mini war zone, and every tree was smashed, it didn't kill them. I know that what I have seen in my life would be nothing like they seen. Yet for there to be trees left, it would seem that being smashed, is the same as being killed. Any tree that was not killed, would put out new foliage in a short time. Like say a few weeks.

    After Moses told them how bad it was going to be, he turned and left. In 8 Pharaoh had called Moses back. Only after his servants asked him to send out the men. They seen that Egypt was lost, and were in hopes of slavering something from it. Pharaoh asked who will go with you? Moses told him everyone, and every thing will go to worship, it was a festival to HaShem. It was this reply, that has set the stage for what we see today. When a child becomes old enough, they are always included in services. No mater what church you attend, or what faith you follow. I have never seen any one tell a child no, when they wished to offer up a song, sacrifice some of their time, or Offer some their allowance as Tithe. In some churches it is even encouraged, and said to be a living sacrifice. I can see this in some ways, however it is not the same as a burnt offering, and so it may be wise to call it a sacrifice, only when a person puts other parts of their life on hold. Much like we say that our men and women that sever in the military sacrifice.
    Pharaoh then said no, take only the men. He know that if the women and children were left behind, then the men would return as well.
    In 12 we find backing for the idea that the hail didn't kill all the trees. As we read here that HaShem told Moses that the locust would eat everything that the hail had left. They must have doing this in short order, as we find in 16 that Pharaoh hastened to call Moses and Aaron back. In 17 we find that Pharaoh know he had sinned, just as he know he had sinned every other time. Pharaoh was in hopes of putting an end it the locust before they ate the roots as well. Now I don't know that locust would do that, it may be that once everything was gone, and that was all they had left they would. If anyone knows the answer to that, please let me know.
    On thing that has always stuck me as odd, Pharaoh only asked to have that one death removed. This has lead to many a conversation, mostly dealing with the question, "Did Pharaoh know by now that sin lead to death, or was he asking that Egypt be spared from the death that he seen coming to his nation?" That may never be answered, yet it does seem to be a question worth contemplation.
    In 19-20 we are told that a west wind took ever locust out of Egypt. There are some that say not even the locust they had preserved for food, were left.

    If we look to Rev, 9:3-4 we find the counterpart to this plague. However, as is clear the locust we find there are a bit different. They don't eat the grass, trees or anything green. Rather they are to torment every man that doesn't have the seal of HaShem in their foreheads.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  4. #504
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25th, 2013
    Age
    35
    Posts
    10,581
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    55

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Exo 6:3
    I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty’—but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them.
    I think the way this is commonly translated is a mistranslation from the Hebrew. It is in reality a negative affirmation I will try to show why I belive this;

    Genesis 12:7-8, "Then YHWH appeared to Abram, and said: To your descendants I will give this land. And he built an altar there to YHWH Who appeared to him.And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to YHWH, and there he prayed with the Name of YHWH."

    SO we see in Genesis 12:8 Abraham "prayed with the Name of YHWH" Why then do some translations say " by my name the "LORD" (YHWH - #H3068) I did not make myself known to them" Either there is a contradiction is Scripture or there is a translation error.

    English Standard Version
    Exodus 6:3, I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them."

    English Revised Version
    Exodus 6:3, and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH I was not known to them."

    Restored Name King James Version
    Exodus 6:3, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El-Shaddai, but by my name יהוה was I not known to them?"

    The Scriptures 2009
    Exodus 6:3, “And I appeared to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, as Ěl Shaddai. And by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?"

    "by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?" This is the proper translation, in the original Hebrew text it is called a negative affirmation. Example: I could say, "If I had a cup of sugar I would give it to you" or I could state the same with a negative affirmation; "If I had a cup of sugar would I not give it to you?" May seem like a litle thing, but I don’t want any translation errors, and translation erros have led more analytical thinking people to think the Scriptures are not trustworthy because of bad translators not staying true to the true and original text.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  5. #505
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25th, 2013
    Age
    35
    Posts
    10,581
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    55

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Great thread btw, I may not reply but I check in once in w while!
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  6. #506
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    Great thread btw, I may not reply but I check in once in w while!
    Thank you.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  7. #507
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    I think the way this is commonly translated is a mistranslation from the Hebrew. It is in reality a negative affirmation I will try to show why I belive this;

    Genesis 12:7-8, "Then YHWH appeared to Abram, and said: To your descendants I will give this land. And he built an altar there to YHWH Who appeared to him.And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to YHWH, and there he prayed with the Name of YHWH."

    SO we see in Genesis 12:8 Abraham "prayed with the Name of YHWH" Why then do some translations say " by my name the "LORD" (YHWH - #H3068) I did not make myself known to them" Either there is a contradiction is Scripture or there is a translation error.


    The sages tell us that though Abraham had heard the name, He didn't know it's meaning. As they had never seen HaShem fulfill the promises He had made. This may seem odd, yet it is the best I can come with off hand. If had never seen a glass, and had no idea what it was or how it worked, and some used the word enough that you learned it, you would know the word. Then one day someone hands you a glass of water, and calls it that, then you would truly know the word for what it was. The same is true for HaShem's name YHVH.


    English Standard Version
    Exodus 6:3, I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them."

    English Revised Version
    Exodus 6:3, and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH I was not known to them."

    Restored Name King James Version
    Exodus 6:3, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El-Shaddai, but by my name יהוה was I not known to them?"

    The Scriptures 2009
    Exodus 6:3, “And I appeared to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya‛aqoḇ, as Ěl Shaddai. And by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?"

    "by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?" This is the proper translation, in the original Hebrew text it is called a negative affirmation. Example: I could say, "If I had a cup of sugar I would give it to you" or I could state the same with a negative affirmation; "If I had a cup of sugar would I not give it to you?" May seem like a litle thing, but I don’t want any translation errors, and translation erros have led more analytical thinking people to think the Scriptures are not trustworthy because of bad translators not staying true to the true and original text.


    You have a god point, and yes many have tried to show the Bible wrong using thing like this. At times it is hard to deal with some translations. Though as I pointed out above, (and I hold this to the best understanding we will find) It isn't that they had not heard His name, regather that they simply didn't have a full understanding of it. In the Hebrew language, ( as I am told, I don't know Hebrew) there are 72 names for HaShem. They all show a attribute, or aspect of His personality if you will. When given any one of the names, we may know how to say it, yet we have no idea what it means. So can we say we truly understand that name? HaShem was about to let His name YHVH be known, not just the word, the meaning of it as well.
    I am sorry for taking so long to answer this. It seems that I did over look it, as there was way to much going on that day.
    Last edited by Rainrider; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:38 AM.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  8. #508
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex.10:21-29

    Although some see this as being night for 3 days, the text does seem to indicate that this was not night, rather a total absence of light. Almost like being a cave with the lights off, and you can't see your hand right in front of you face.
    The sages go a bit further, and in their teaching, we may find why they didn't simply light a lamp. Ramban tells us that the light was not the mere absence of light, it may have been an opaque, fog like condition that would so heavy it would put out any flame. Now I have never seen a fog like that, I have been told stories about then though. Most of them from people that have been in the Navy, and spent some time in the North Atlantic. I am sure you all know them kind of stories go. I was in a fog, the next guy has to out him, so his fog was so bad he couldn't see more than 10 feet past the bow of the ship, and it goes o until the fog was so thick at full power the ship couldn't move at all. SO lay what ever stock you wish in them. The way to tell if it is a fairy tail or a sailor story. The fair tail starts with once upon a time, the sailor story starts with, THIS AN'T NO LIE. The an oil feild store starts with this an't no bull.
    Anyway, As we read that Israel had light in their homes, one may ask, was it just in their homes, or could they go about their daily chores, like tending to their herds and so on? The Word doesn't say it, though I think they could. I say this as Moses was able to go and talk with Pharaoh. In my mind, HaShem let the light that Israel had go with him, so that Pharaoh could see that a distinction had once more been made. Let fact it, if we had been left in the a darkness like that for 3 days, then in walks Moses, and he isn't in the dark, that would leave an impression.
    Also Pharaoh change his tactics a bit. He was now willing to let everyone go, just leave your livestock behind. I bet he was mighty up-set when Moses said we must everything. Pharaoh for the first time ejected Moses, and told him, (not in the same words) If you ever come back in here, I will kill you.
    In 29 Moses tells Pharaoh he had spoken correctly. The sages tell us that Moses know what was coming next, and with the death of the first born in all of Egypt, Pharaoh wouldn't send for Moses, as it would be to late to turn back the hands of time. Rather he tells them to leave. However, that is the next chapter, so let not give any more spoilers.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  9. #509
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25th, 2013
    Age
    35
    Posts
    10,581
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    55

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post


    The sages tell us that though Abraham had heard the name, He didn't know it's meaning. As they had never seen HaShem fulfill the promises He had made. This may seem odd, yet it is the best I can come with off hand. If had never seen a glass, and had no idea what it was or how it worked, and some used the word enough that you learned it, you would know the word. Then one day someone hands you a glass of water, and calls it that, then you would truly know the word for what it was. The same is true for HaShem's name YHVH.




    You have a god point, and yes many have tried to show the Bible wrong using thing like this. At times it is hard to deal with some translations. Though as I pointed out above, (and I hold this to the best understanding we will find) It isn't that they had not heard His name, regather that they simply didn't have a full understanding of it. In the Hebrew language, ( as I am told, I don't know Hebrew) there are 72 names for HaShem. They all show a attribute, or aspect of His personality if you will. When given any one of the names, we may know how to say it, yet we have no idea what it means. So can we say we truly understand that name? HaShem was about to let His name YHVH be known, not just the word, the meaning of it as well.
    I am sorry for taking so long to answer this. It seems that I did over look it, as there was way to much going on that day.
    No worries thank you for the sincere reply, yes I agree that His name is deeper than the letters or simply pronouncing it, but it represents who He is and all His actions and traits, 100%.

    I beleive YHWH has one name, but when paired with an attribute ist is simply showing an aspect of who He is. I believe He is knowable but we will never know all that is Him whilke in the fleash and possibly ever. Infinite greatness, righteousness, power etc. is unimaginable and unsearchable, but we can know Him still, just not everthing to fully quantify. Just some thoughts, also I enjoy the thread, be well praiseYah!
    Rainrider likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  10. #510
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizikyah View Post
    No worries thank you for the sincere reply, yes I agree that His name is deeper than the letters or simply pronouncing it, but it represents who He is and all His actions and traits, 100%.

    I beleive YHWH has one name, but when paired with an attribute ist is simply showing an aspect of who He is. I believe He is knowable but we will never know all that is Him whilke in the fleash and possibly ever. Infinite greatness, righteousness, power etc. is unimaginable and unsearchable, but we can know Him still, just not everthing to fully quantify. Just some thoughts, also I enjoy the thread, be well praiseYah!
    You are right, or at lest as I see it anyway. When we stand before many will be made clear, all the things we got wrong in this life, will be common knowledge to us. I keep that in mind when I start to dream of being able to read the Tanakh in the Hebrew stripe. Doesn't mean I won't stop looking for a way to learn how, it just means that I know for sure one day I will know it, and in in HaShems own words, as well as His understanding.
    Hizikyah likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  11. #511
    Senior Member Hizikyah's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 25th, 2013
    Age
    35
    Posts
    10,581
    Blog Entries
    15
    Rep Power
    55

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    You are right, or at lest as I see it anyway. When we stand before many will be made clear, all the things we got wrong in this life, will be common knowledge to us. I keep that in mind when I start to dream of being able to read the Tanakh in the Hebrew stripe. Doesn't mean I won't stop looking for a way to learn how, it just means that I know for sure one day I will know it, and in in HaShems own words, as well as His understanding.
    Jeremiah 31:34, “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”



    Hebrews 8:11, “And they shall by no means teach each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ because they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them."
    Rainrider likes this.
    Mt5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

    Rev21:1-2, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

    Rom3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

    Rom3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


  12. #512
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex. 11

    There are many things that need to addressed in this short chapter, so if anyone see that I missed anything, please bring it out for us.
    1-3 HaShem tells Moses of the last plague, though in this chapter we are given all the details, that comes in the next chapter. When we read he shall send you, this is to say that he will send the Israeli people out just as he sent Moses, and Aaron out when he ejected them from his palace. The sages teach that if one willing refuses to obey HaShem, then they will be forced to in a less pleasant manner. Just as one how neglects Torah because of wealth, will ultimately neglect it in poverty.
    HaShem asked Moses to speak to the people, and have them ask for valuables, in order to full His promise to Abraham in Gen. 15:14-15. Knowing that if Israel didn't ask, the Egyptians wouldn't offer. So in order to keep His word, Israel need to ask. This doesn't mean in anyway that HaShem couldn't place it on their hearts to give Israel the wealth He had told Abraham of. The favor that HaShem granted Israel in the eyes of the Egyptians, can be seen 2 ways. First that in regard to Moses, they were afraid of what he may do if they said no to Israel. On the other hand, it may be that the people of Egypt seen that Israel has been righteous and they had treated Israel with evil in their hearts. Pharaoh as we should note was omitted from statement. This must likely was do HaShem having hardened his heart.
    4-8 Moses when speaking of the plague to the people said at about midnight. This may well have done so that Pharaohs astrologers couldn't miscalculate the time, and claim Moses was wrong. one of the sages added that from the 3rd plague when the magicians were forced to say HaShem was at work, that belief had been reinforced with progressive plagues. So if Moses was to err, the Egyptian wise men would loss faith.
    When we read the words, "I shall go out" it makes clear that HaShem HIm-slfe will carry out this plague, not an angle. I understand we have been told all our lives it was an angle, yet the wording here does seem to say it was HaShem. This also seems to backed in the next chapter as well. The sage tell us that this was (A) because of His love for Israel, and (B) as only the first born was to be killed, only He would know their identity. As for Israel, not even a dog will bark, this as the verse makes clear is to show that HaShem has made the distinction.
    The sages teach that the servants May have been the ones that seen how Pharaoh had acted the last time Moses and Aaron seen him. According to to the principle of measure for measure, it it would necessary for them to see Pharaoh acknowledge Moses' supremacy. It may have been that HaShem spared the first born of these servants, so they would be free to see it take place, without the burden of caring for their own dead.
    9 and 10 at first read may seem to place Moses and Aaron back with Pharaoh, however this may be a recap, as to what had already passed. Many do teach this, I also follow this in my own understanding. Yet be warned, if you have never talked with anyone that wishes to say the Bible has contradictions in it. This has been just one of many places the will point to. As I have seen first hand the lack of understanding by so many, there would be a good chance that if you didn't already know this, you would fail to make a clear case in favor of the Word being true.

    As I missed placing the counter part of the plague of darkness, I will do so here. Sorry I didn't get that in it's proper place.
    The plague of darkness can be seen Rev. 16:10-11. in this we find much the same thing we have in Ex. Rev. does seem to distinguish between the beast, and His own people in this passage. As it does read clearly that it will be poured out his kingdom, further alluding to it being also affecting his people.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  13. #513
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex. 12
    Before we start this chapter, I feel it should be noted, that this, the first Passover, is not the same as any that came after it. This was the act of mercy that we are to remember as we sit down for the passsover meal. I understand that many don't follow the feast, as I do. So please put your pitchforks away. After all, if you also follow the other thread, you will know that I am not going to try and talk anyone into follow any of feast. Also, after Yeshua Passover took on a new meaning. It not only brings to mind the Exodus from Egypt, (a symbol of sin) it now also brings to mind our freedom from the penalty of sin through Yeshua's final sacrifice.

    1-2 The month of Nisan is given to Israel as the first mount. This however doesn't say it is to be a new year. (I hope I get this right) The new year started with Tisheri, I think that's right. The month the day of atonement is in.
    3-11 Here we find what was to done for passover. The little spoken of 4 days in which the lamb or kid had after being chosen, has many understandings an teachings. The sages teach that this time was to spent looking the animal over to make it was free of any defect. They also tell us that in that 4 days, we find a little spoken of miracle. When the Egyptian people saw their gods tied to the beds of the Jews, they asked why. When they were told they would be slaughtered, they became angry. Yet were powerless to do anything. In yet one other teaching, we find that the 3 full days were to show Israel that Yeshua would be in the grave for 3 full days.
    Also the idea that every house was to eat it all in one night, and if there was more than that household needed, they were to share with others. Though the sages give us some insight on this as well, I will fore go that. I will however give you a teaching on it that sounds odd. To share this meal with others is a grate honor to the Jewish people. (at lest the ones I know) It has been said to show us that we should never ask for more than our needs, and that to share Yeshua with others, should be a need, and never seen as an inconvenience.
    Unlike many people, I see Passover as what many call the last supper. I may not drink Wine, or eat sheep or goat every year. However, it is not what we eat, so much as it is why. The bitter herbs, should bring to mind the bitterness of sin. the unleavened bread, serves as a reminder of new life, and that we can't boost of the salvation we hold dear. Rather it is should remind of a sinless man, that took on our sins, so that we may washed clean.
    The manner given to us here, is not how one should cook their meal today. As noted above, the first passover was not the same as any that followed. Not many people would be willing to eat every last part of an animal, as I am sure that ever then, they may not have eaten most of the internal organs.
    12-13 Once more we find that it reads as though HaShem is going to carry out this plague Personally.
    14-16 As we read here, that this is to be an eternal decree, it reads as though it was to be done even today. I understand that it was given to the Jewish people and the Gentile, (like I said, I am not here to say you have to do this) however it also tells us this is a festival for HaShem. It this that has complied me to follow Passover as best I can. Some teach that Passover is the 15th of Nisan, however as we can see clearly, it is the last meal on the 14th. The 15th is the first day of unleavened bread, and some do teach that this is an 8 days feast. I say this as the first day, (at lest how I see it) isn't talking of passover, rather the first day of unl. bread.
    As the rest of this chapter is a recap of the first part, I will leave it at this. I may be reading this wrong, and if so, please forgive me.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  14. #514
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex 12
    It seems I made a big mistake with ending this chapter as I did. Sorry, I make no other excuse than I failed to check the facts and ended it with my own misunderstanding.
    17-18 The sages here compare the leavened to sin. Though not in the manner many today think of sin. They tell us that if a commandment is placed in your hand, we should sure to do it. If we delay in it's performance, it may become leaven, or sin. Before anyone goes nuts over that, keep in mind that even the NT has over 1000 commandments for us. Unless I am wrong in my thinking, it is more like 1065. So matter how one looks at it, 1 John 3:4 Tells us that sin a violation of the law. So feel freee to read that however you wish.
    19-20 Though we are told here to remove all leaven from our homes, some teach this was only to protect anything from becoming contaminated by it, or so that one would not eat it by accident. One other teaching tells us, that it is to be removed not as a safe guard, rather to held remind us, and to help give the story of Passover a stronger image. As both hold some truth, there is no need to rebuke them in any way.
    21-24 Hyssop is seen many times in Torah. It is almost always connected with cleansing in some form. As this part of Torah was debated in class, and many ideas of it were kicked around there simply is no way to place it all in here.
    One thing that does need to be pointed out is, that though in many Bibles it reads that placing blood on your door was to be a decree forever. It is wrong to teach that is still done, or that it is ever seen after this. A clear indication, that when Passover is done to remind us of what has been done for us, placing blood on ones door, has no true reason today. It will be seen in Lev 23 that this was not given as an action to be done on Passover after this one time.
    29-31 As stated in a past post, there may have been some that seen what Israel was doing, so they also had lamb to eat, and placed blood on their door, then stayed inside that night. Not counting any that may have done this, Pharaoh was the only first born not killed. He was spared so that he chould drive Israel out Egypt, and so that he could ell the world about what happened.
    32-36 Pharaoh asked for a blessing on him self before Israel left. The sages however say he was asking that Moses would pray that he wouldn't die. He was after all, a first born him self. The rest of the Egyptian people were doing everything they could to rush Israel out of their land. Even to the point of giving them everything they had of any value. In this manner HaShem fulfilled His promise. Though to many it would seem inappropriate to be asking such a thing at that time, the children of Israel did so out of obedience to HaShem. Though some would argue it was Moses, the fact remains that it was HaShem who told Moses what was to be done.
    37-42 As was stated before, here we find the only time Torah speaks of a mixed multitude that went out with Israel. Even the sages agree that they converted to Judaism, and were here after counted as a part of Israel. Torah may tell us 600,000 men went of Egypt. When one adds the children, and women, that number, (according to the sages) may have been a total of around 3 million. This was told to us so that we could see the magnitude of the miracle, not just in that many people being freed all at once, it also shows the ability of HaShem to feed with his own hand any that walk after Him in faith.
    43-51 The idea that one must be circumcised holds true to this day. However, as we look at this, don't mistake the physical with the spiritual. As Paul tells us, we are no longer circumcised in the flesh, rather in our hearts. I am strongly ageist the idea that a gentile has any Biblical need of physical circumcision, yet I also stand on the Torah, and am willing to teach that a Jewish male, should be. However, having shared in a Passover meal with a Jewish family, they did ask that I show I was circumcised. As I seen their willingness to share this meal with me an honor, I had no problem with that simple request. May I also add, that they showed me many things I never dream of, that one simple day spent with them, was a true blessing.
    MarcR likes this.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  15. #515
    Junior Member Atlanta_GA's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 18th, 2017
    Age
    60
    Posts
    20
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

  16. #516
    Senior Member MarcR's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 12th, 2015
    Age
    78
    Posts
    4,091
    Rep Power
    72

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_B View Post
    Sister you missed his main point of this thread. He is going to push his belief on everyone and if you do not agree with him, he will be condesending towards you. Even thou he said it was only a study in the Torah and explained what the Torah is, then he posts Scripture that is not in the Torah but in the New Testament, that should show you where his misunderstanding lies.
    It seems to me that you are being unreasonably critical to no purpose. It is impossible to teach Torah from a Messianic perspective without citing the New Testament. You might question whether it is appropriate to teach Torah at all once one comes to faith in Jesus; but the answer to that is there are many who find it profitable. If you don't find it profitable, nothing is holding you here.
    GandalfTheWhite and Rainrider like this.
    MarcR



    Blessings on you! (Nu 6:24-26)


    Col 3:16-17
    16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    KJV

  17. #517
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainrider View Post
    Ex. 12


    1-2 The month of Nisan is given to Israel as the first mount. This however doesn't say it is to be a new year. (I hope I get this right) The new year started with Tisheri, I think that's right. The month the day of atonement is in.
    3-11 Here we find what was to done for passover. The little spoken of 4 days in which the lamb or kid had after being chosen, has many understandings an teachings. The sages teach that this time was to spent looking the animal over to make it was free of any defect. They also tell us that in that 4 days, we find a little spoken of miracle. When the Egyptian people saw their gods tied to the beds of the Jews, they asked why. When they were told they would be slaughtered, they became angry. Yet were powerless to do anything. In yet one other teaching, we find that the 3 full days were to show Israel that Yeshua would be in the grave for 3 full days.
    It seems that once more I have been corrected. My reason may seem to be some what unimportant, however for me it is. I used the name Nisan for the month here. This is however in correct by the Torah tells us. In all truth I should have given the month as Abib.
    Before you beat me up, When I studied under the rabbi's I did, it was made clear that the name of the month was changed, to Nisan. After that it was all we used. When I look at the Hebrew calendars I have used for some 20 years to keep up with the feast, it is also Nisan. SO that is what my mind sees when I think of Passover. Unless I see the word Abib, it slips my mind.
    I would like to once more thank MarcR for pointing this out to me.
    Being wrong is only a bad thing when you are unwilling to look at how or why. In fact being wrong is one of the best teachers I ever found. The second best is the person that is willing to point it out, in a manner that is meant to help, and not destroy. SO if any one seen that, and thought, it was wrong, you would be right, and wrong. Right in that the Torah doesn't use this name for a month, EVER. Wrong in that it is not a month, or isn't the month one would look to, to find Passover on a Hebrew calendar today.
    Still, for one stay true to the Torah, and the Truth, if is wrong, and their is no reason to try and make it sound right in anyway at all. So please forgive my mistake.
    Last edited by Rainrider; 6 Days Ago at 03:52 AM.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  18. #518
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex 13
    1-2 There is a little known writer that twisted this so badly to make Israel, and the Torah sound as thought it held no form of love at all. He said that Israel was to sacrifice the first born. Using their blood to make their Passover bread. It was this writer that lead to the people of France to make this claim against the Jewish people that lived their. However this is not the case. The first born were spared by HaShem if u had blood on the door post, so the first born were His. As we will see later, they could be bought back.
    3-10 When does a person think about the exodus? What do you think of when you think about it? Do we think about the House of Israel being led from Egypt, and the plagues used to free them? Or do we think of our own freedom from bondage daily? Paul makes it clear that we were freed from the bondage of sin. Just as one can see that Egypt is a symbol of sin.
    In spring we should take the time to think of both really. After all, the history of Israel does give us an idea what the body of Yeshua faces today, and what we will face in times to come. Just as the Passover Lamb is a shadow of Yeshua, both show us that we are freed from bondage, and walk in a new life.
    SO what does any of that have to do with Tefillin? (Tefilllin is the the litle black boxes that some may have seen tied to the arms and foreheads of some Jewish men.) Everything really. You see Tefillin is a shadow of the Laws being placed in ones Heart and Mind. It is placed on the left arm close to the heart, and on the forehead close to the mind. If a person has something in their heart, and on their mind everyday, it shows in how they talk to others, and how they act. So in a way, we all ware Tefillin today. Only it isn't worn on the out side anymore.
    11-16 Some have tried to make the claim that the Torah is in conflict here. As the by saying the first born, and then it calls for the first born male only. This shows a lack of understanding, as well as an evil heart. After all, we should never just a part of any chapter, and think we know it's intent. Once read in full context of the whole chapter, we can understand it's intent, and full meaning.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  19. #519
    Senior Member Rainrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 17th, 2017
    Age
    53
    Posts
    724
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Ex 14
    1-4 To one looking on, it would seem that Israel was lost. Moses, must not be a great leader, and sure isn't much of an outdoors men. Though this was done to make Pharaoh think the same way, it had a clear purpose. The wording here leaves one to think that Israel was going back the way they came, as if the power of Baal-zephon, had forced them to turn around. After all it was the only god of Egypt that had not been destroyed before Israel left Egypt. This according to the sages, was done, to give Pharaoh the idea that at lest one of his gods, was stronger than HaShem. It is hard to argue with this idea, when one understands that HaShem doesn't do anything without reason. Pharaoh still hurting from the plagues, may not have been able to find the courage to go after Israel, had HaShem not placed in his heart to do so. He had all ready shown that he was unable to make peace with Israel being free, and most likely wish to reclaim them if for no other reason than to show he was still in control. HaShem just gave him the courage he needed to do so.
    5-9 All it took was for Pharaoh to be told the Israel had left. It may be that spies had gone with them, and reported back to Pharaoh. Letting him know that Israel had on intention of coming back. That along with the news of them seeming to be confused, gave the courage needed. So Pharaoh went out and harnessed his own chariot, to help encourage others. Though it can't be shown, many think that Pharaoh took every horse, man, and chariot with him. Though it would be uncommon to leave your city with no protection at all.
    10-14 Israel became so scared, they both prayed, and ask Moses why. Seeing a force that you know was better trained, and equipped is enough to make anyone take a look at what are doing. Yet in my heart, I find it ever so sad. They had just days before seen the might of HaShem, in all that He had done. Moses tries to remind of this in his own way.
    15-18 It would seem Moses to was in prayer. HaShem did ask, "Why do you call out to me?" Once more we see that HaShem will strengthen Pharaohs heart. Though this had been done, it stands to reason that once he sees the sea partt, doubt would once more enter his mind.
    19-20 If we don't read the words, "The angle of HaShem", and think of Yeshua, we may be missing something. Yet as the sages tell us that their were both a pillar of fire, and this can be shown by verse 19. In that it tells us the angle move, and so did the cloud. Yet as I am sure we all know, it was a cloud by day, and fire by night. Or was it?
    21-22 There were some interesting theories I once heard. It can't be show in any of the Word, so take it how you will. Though Moses had done what he was told, Israel remained where they were, and the water didn't part until one of them went in, showing their faith, then the water parted. One other, only the top 1/4 of the water parted, the water under that was made solid. If not for this, it would have been to steep for the chariots to enter. Then comes the one I really love. In an effort to make it fit their worldly needs, some one said, were they crossed was only about 2" deep. So why do I love that one? Well in their hopes of making things sound less than they were, they in fact made it sound like an even greater miracle. To think that HaShem drown all of Pharaoh's army in only 2" of water, that would show His power in a way only He could come up with.
    23-31 Though Egypt was so willing to go after Israel at first. When the wheels of their chariots came off, and they seen it had to be the hand of HaShem, they tried to turn back. One teaching is that they had been toasted around so badly, their joints were dislocated. Paying them back measure for measure. Any that were able to run turned only to find the water had closed their path.
    It is sad in a way that Israel seemed to believe in HaShem after they seen the bodies of the Egyptians wash to shore. We must keep in mind, that though it seems to read this way, it would be wrong of us to place this form of judgment on them. You see, they had already seen His power, and knew Him a little better. Yet this one act, opened their hearts to a new understanding of Him. Sadly, as we will see, it was short lived, and their faith like many of ours, faltered.
    we were asked to pray for 2 thing in the Word, do we pray them?
    Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
    Mat.9:38
    Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

  20. #520
    Junior Member Atlanta_GA's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 18th, 2017
    Age
    60
    Posts
    20
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta_GA View Post
    For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
    So you people don't understand the teachings of Jesus, it would do you wonderful if you tried to understand what he (Jesus) is saying.

Page 26 of 26 FirstFirst ... 16242526

Similar Threads

  1. Torah Study
    By RachelBibleStudent in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 324
    Last Post: July 24th, 2016, 01:43 AM
  2. Torah observance people vs Non-Torah observant people
    By Biblelogic01 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: June 18th, 2015, 12:07 PM
  3. Torah
    By wdeaton65 in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: February 10th, 2013, 08:11 PM
  4. Why know Torah law?
    By mule in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2012, 10:06 PM
  5. Does anyone here study torah only and why?
    By damombomb in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 7th, 2011, 04:43 PM