The Olivet Discourse

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

J7 said:

how does GID reveal HIS HIDDEN TRUTHS but through HIS prophets. These events were simply shadows ...every WORD of GOD is a picture a parallel and a prophetic word made visible to us by signs ans representations (because GOD knows we need signs to understand HIS HIGHER and HIDDEN TRUTHS which are invisible to us if HE had not given us by HIS WORD, shadows and signs pointing to what we are really supposed to see

JESUS, when talking to HIS DISCIPLES, wouldn't have been discussing little events of history

HE would have been discussing THE FINAL EVENT and THE END of the ages
and HIS WORDS wouldn't have been just for HOS disciples then
HIS WORDS would be for those disciples yesterday, today and tomorrow

just as HIS warnings to the churches in Revelatuon are for all who belong to HIM to be ready and wait

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

J7 said:

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

What was the tribulation of those days? Was it the persecution of the church leading up to AD 70 or was it the destruction in AD 70?

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

What was the tribulation of those days? Was it the persecution of the church leading up to AD 70 or was it the destruction in AD 70?

Neither
HE was referring to the signs which are for the time of the end

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

Again, do all agree that another temple will be built during this troubling time?
and do we aren't discussing past events or the destruction of the temple in 70AD

that these scriptures are specific to the time of the end and that is what JESUS was discussing

a future event

J7 · Jul 7, 2017

miknik5 said:

No. This is far more complex than is necessary.

Jesus points to the Temple. He says:
1) It will be destroyed
2) It will be a ruin

The followers ask:
1) What will be the sign, the indications, of its imminent destruction?
2) When will this, (the destruction, and the state of desolation), happen?

Jesus then describes the events leading up to and including the destruction of the temple, and he then explains the duration of the period of the desolation that follows the destruction.

He then concludes with a description of his return, which implies that the period of ruin is not permanent. Eventually the Temple will be reconstructed, which is the trigger for Christ to return, when he will destroy the rebuilt Temple with the brightness of his coming

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

You can't have craftsmen measuring the outer courts and leaving it to the Gentiles to trample on
You can't have one taking away the daily sacrifices
You can't have one sitting in the temple declaring himself god

And finally...You can't have GOD commanding HIS people to "come out from her"

worhout there being another earthly temple

J7 · Jul 7, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

What was the tribulation of those days? Was it the persecution of the church leading up to AD 70 or was it the destruction in AD 70?

It was the Roman war against Judea, from AD67-73

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

miknik5 said:

Why do you think this happens at the end? The last days started in Jesus' time... the "last days" are the last days of the kingdom of God being in Jewish control.

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

J7 said:

No. This is far more complex than is necessary.

Jesus points to the Temple. He says:
1) It will be destroyed
2) It will be a ruin

The followers ask:
1) What will be the sign, the indications, of its imminent destruction?
2) When will this, (the destruction, and the state of desolation), happen?

Jesus then describes the events leading up to and including the destruction of the temple, and he then explains the duration of the period of the desolation that follows the destruction.

He then concludes with a description of his return, which implies that the period of ruin is not permanent. Eventually the Temple will be reconstructed, which is the trigger for Christ to return, when he will destroy the rebuilt Temple with the brightness of his coming

So you don't believe another earthly temple will be rebuilt

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Because. There's a weeding to do in Jerusalem
And it is in that time that those who are of THE ISRAEL will be made manifest from those who were weeds

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

J7 said:

Ok then the sign of the Son of man in heaven right after AD 73 right?

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

miknik5 said:

I don't understand how that explains why that makes the tribulation in Matthew future. Israel is done, the sun became dark, the moon stopped reflecting light and the stars fell.

J7 · Jul 7, 2017

miknik5 said:

Once the destruction was complete, in AD73, most of the remaining Jews in Judea were taken into captivity and sent abroad across the Roman Empire. In short, they were sold into slavery. (Josephus actually reports that no-one wanted to buy them.) Once Jerusalem had been destroyed, the Romans were so anxious to put an end to Jewish insurgency, sedition, and God-killing tendencies, that they renamed Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina.

When God left the Temple, this meant that the light had gone out in Jerusalem, and really, the lights had gone out on all Judea. recall that God originally gave Judah the tribe of Benjamin, so that they would "always have a light before them"; this was because Jerusalem was part of Benjaminite territory. So this verse refers to the Old Covenant being finished, physical Israel being sent into bondage, and Jerusalem being extinct as a place of worship:

29 [FONT=&quot]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[/FONT]

Moon = Jerusalem
Stars = Israelites
Sun = God's land blessing on Israel
Powers of Heaven = Israel's covenantal relationship

It is a quotation from Ezekiel 32:

[FONT=&quot]7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Yea, I will make many people amazed at thee, and their kings shall be horribly afraid for thee, when I shall brandish my sword before them; and they shall tremble at every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of thy fall.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For thus saith the Lord God; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon thee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 By the swords of the mighty will I cause thy multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall spoil the pomp of Egypt, and all the multitude thereof shall be destroyed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 I will destroy also all the beasts thereof from beside the great waters; neither shall the foot of man trouble them any more, nor the hoofs of beasts trouble them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 When I shall make the land of Egypt desolate, and the country shall be destitute of that whereof it was full, when I shall smite all them that dwell therein, then shall they know that I am the Lord.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 This is the lamentation wherewith they shall lament her: the daughters of the nations shall lament her: they shall lament for her, even for Egypt, and for all her multitude, saith the Lord God.[/FONT]

Israel is now Egypt because she is in bondage.

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

J7 said:

Luke 21:24-25 KJV
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[25] And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

If it's the Roman war against Judea then "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;" brings the " then everything didn't go FUTURE with verse 24 and stay future.

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Israel is not done
is the GOSPEL still preached by men?
is salvation still available?
is THE DOOR still open?

israel is done (and all mankind) when the 1000 year reign begins
Has that reign begun yet?
that doesn't come until the false Christ/beast and prophet are cast into the lake of fire
And they can't be made manifest until HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way
That also hasn't happened yet

No
israel is not done

J7 · Jul 7, 2017

KJV1611 said:

No.

Luke calls it the Time Of The Gentiles. Matthew references Ezekiel.

The exile of Judea, the destruction of Jerusalem and control of it by foreign forces, these events have been running 2000 years.

miknik5 · Jul 7, 2017

When did CHRIST shake both the heavens and the earth?

Have we begun to see judgement (as depicted in revelation 8) going in the reverse order of the creation account?

J7 · Jul 7, 2017

The lights go out on Israel, 'and then' ....

It is the sequence of events. To God 2000 years are two days. It is perfectly sequential to him.

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

J7 said:

But you said:

"When God left the Temple, this meant that the light had gone out in Jerusalem, and really, the lights had gone out on all Judea"

The sun, moon and stars... that comes AFTER Luke said "the times of the Gentiles".

KJV1611 · Jul 7, 2017

miknik5 said:

Matthew 21:43 KJV
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

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