The Olivet Discourse

[J7]

There are three main Olivet accounts, Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13.

Surely it cannot be too hard to fathom what Jesus meant here?

In Luke we see Jesus coming out of the Temple after teaching, and responding to some people who are in awe of the Temple:

5 When some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and gifts dedicated to God, he said, 6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when not one stone will be left upon another; all will be thrown down.”

Some followers (who appear to be the disciples) then ask him:

“Teacher, when will this be, and what will be the sign that this is about to take place?”

So, Jesus explains that the temple, (built in 515BC under Zerubbabel, and known as Herod's Temple) will be comprehensively destroyed and the disciples ask when this will happen and what indications will there be that it is about to happen.

Correct?

 

[iamsoandso]

Thing about it is at first it seems simple,not after you think about it. The thinking is that some say that each and everything was fulfilled by ad66-70 .

So then after thinking it all through and comparing it to other scriptures maybe not.

Take Revelation 13:17 for instance where "no man might buy or sell save he had the mark of the beast" . Most go just like many in the past and apply this to Caesar,Nero ect. right?

So as we know then from Josephus Titus destroyed the temple in ad70 because they revolted and refused to bow down to the authority of Rome. So compare the two and ask is it the same or is it opposite?

If the Jews in the temple siege revolted,rebelled and refused to use Rome’s money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage
and they refused to obey Rome’s authority and revolt unlike what is in Romans 1:1 then if Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel then the revolt in ad66-70 proves that they did not receive the mark nor worship Caesar as god, correct?

 

[J7]

Thing about it is at first it seems simple,not after you think about it.

Well that is often the problem, we try and fit everything into a pre-existing picture, instead of letting the text speak.

The thinking is that some say that each and everything was fulfilled by ad66-70 .

Whoa!! This is not the way to study. You have started with a conclusion. (Yours or someone else's )


So then after thinking it all through and comparing it to other scriptures maybe not.

Take Revelation 13:17 for instance where "no man might buy or sell save he had the mark of the beast" . Most go just like many in the past and apply this to Caesar,Nero ect. right?

So as we know they from Josephus Titus destroyed the temple in ad70 because they revolted and refused to bow down to the authority of Rome. So compare the two and ask is it the same or is it opposite?

If the Jews in the temple siege revolted,rebelled and refused to use Rome’s money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage
and they refused to obey Rome’s authority and revolt unlike what is in Romans 1:1 then if Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel then the revolt in ad66-70 proves that they did not receive the mark nor worship Caesar as god.

Very Interesting stuff. But.......

We are adding unnecessary complexity at this point. Cue everyone to jump in and go off at a million tangents, and total confusion.

 

[KJV1611]

There are three main Olivet accounts, Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13.

Surely it cannot be too hard to fathom what Jesus meant here?

In Luke we see Jesus coming out of the Temple after teaching, and responding to some people who are in awe of the Temple:

5 When some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and gifts dedicated to God, he said, 6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when not one stone will be left upon another; all will be thrown down.”

Some followers (who appear to be the disciples) then ask him:

“Teacher, when will this be, and what will be the sign that this is about to take place?”

So, Jesus explains that the temple, (built in 515BC under Zerubbabel, and known as Herod's Temple) will be comprehensively destroyed and the disciples ask when this will happen and what indications will there be that it is about to happen.

Correct?

And the sign of his coming and the end of the world.

Matthew 24:3 KJV
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

[J7]

Coming back to the text. Actually, when you think about what Jesus says, it is a perfect example of his words being measured to the last drop. (It is not some off the cuff remark that he makes)

John 12:
49 I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.

Jesus does not say that the Temple will be destroyed, (as I incorrectly stated in the first post), he says not one stone will be left standing, i.e. it will be left a ruin, 'desolate' in Biblical terminology.

It is very important that he states it in this way.

 

[J7]

And the sign of his coming and the end of the world.

Matthew 24:3 KJV
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Yes, Mark and Matthew differ, but Luke's account should also be internally consistent should it not?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thing about it is at first it seems simple,not after you think about it. The thinking is that some say that each and everything was fulfilled by ad66-70 .

So then after thinking it all through and comparing it to other scriptures maybe not.

Take Revelation 13:17 for instance where "no man might buy or sell save he had the mark of the beast" . Most go just like many in the past and apply this to Caesar,Nero ect. right?

So as we know then from Josephus Titus destroyed the temple in ad70 because they revolted and refused to bow down to the authority of Rome. So compare the two and ask is it the same or is it opposite?

If the Jews in the temple siege revolted,rebelled and refused to use Rome’s money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage
and they refused to obey Rome’s authority and revolt unlike what is in Romans 1:1 then if Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel then the revolt in ad66-70 proves that they did not receive the mark nor worship Caesar as god, correct?

Hello iamsoandso,

To apply the mark of the beast to just Israel not bowing to Rome or using their money does not fit the scripture:

"He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."

"all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave" would infer all people on the earth.

Regarding this, when you take into consideration that the world is set up on an electronic crediting and debiting system (buying and selling), then you can see how the mark will be made possible.

Currently people swipe cards or use cell phone bank apps and other means. Now we have the technology where people are being implanted with chips in their hands. This is already happening in Sweden and her sister countries. In fact, Denmark has already gone cashless.

The device that is currently being used is an RFID chip, but I am sure that this will evolve into something smaller and more applicable. What will remain consistent is that it will go in the hand or the forehead.

The fact that this technology even exists and the location is the hand, is in itself a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word.

 

[iamsoandso]

lol,I agree it's kind of complex, in Matthew 24:3 when they ask they use the word "aionos" #165 which is one set of time in a cycle of time's but Jesus uses the word "kosmou" # 2889 ,entire creation in his explanation so since their is a difference between those two words some of what he is saying applies to just one of the sets of time among others and what he says about the entire creation is about all of the sets of time together(they ask him three things in Matthew 24:3) so he answers three separate things instead of just one.

 

[J7]

Why not start a mark of the beast thread, have you no shame?

To be honest, they probably should have a dementia board.

 

[iamsoandso]

Hello iamsoandso,

To apply the mark of the beast to just Israel not bowing to Rome or using their money does not fit the scripture:

"He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."

"all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave" would infer all people on the earth.

Regarding this, when you take into consideration that the world is set up on an electronic crediting and debiting system (buying and selling), then you can see how the mark will be made possible.

Currently people swipe cards or use cell phone bank apps and other means. Now we have the technology where people are being implanted with chips in their hands. This is already happening in Sweden and her sister countries. In fact, Denmark has already gone cashless.

The device that is currently being used is an RFID chip, but I am sure that this will evolve into something smaller and more applicable. What will remain consistent is that it will go in the hand or the forehead.

The fact that this technology even exists and the location is the hand, is in itself a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word.

lol,in part I agree he's speaking about just those stone's in what he is saying(just applies to one group),, "and" ,,,he is also speaking about things that will happen to the whole earth(multiple groups).

 

[iamsoandso]

Why not start a mark of the beast thread, have you no shame?

To be honest, they probably should have a dementia board.

you say that because you don’t understand that you actually are the one who did I pointed it out but I’ll keep quiet if it's more comfortable ...

 

[J7]

lol. it's not uncomfortable, it's just confusion.

 

[iamsoandso]

lol. it's not uncomfortable, it's just confusion.

I'll just watch, this is about 10-15 thousandth thread on this and when it evolves into what I was saying I'll be back because there is another thing no one is considering.

 

[miknik5]

Thing about it is at first it seems simple,not after you think about it. The thinking is that some say that each and everything was fulfilled by ad66-70 .

So then after thinking it all through and comparing it to other scriptures maybe not.

Take Revelation 13:17 for instance where "no man might buy or sell save he had the mark of the beast" . Most go just like many in the past and apply this to Caesar,Nero ect. right?

So as we know then from Josephus Titus destroyed the temple in ad70 because they revolted and refused to bow down to the authority of Rome. So compare the two and ask is it the same or is it opposite?

If the Jews in the temple siege revolted,rebelled and refused to use Rome’s money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage
and they refused to obey Rome’s authority and revolt unlike what is in Romans 1:1 then if Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel then the revolt in ad66-70 proves that they did not receive the mark nor worship Caesar as god, correct?

Did 2 thesselonians 2 occur yet?
jesus said something else in Luke

he warned his disciples that many will come professing "another Christ"

These whom you are discussing who revolted against roman authority, knew the truth of CHRIST and just because they revolted and would not bow down to Caesar does not mean they were believers in CHRIST and sealed by HIS SPIRIT

In fact, if they revolted, it kind of implies that they weren't in CHRIST either

 

[miknik5]

They may not have received the mark of the beast (and couldn't have since HE who restrains all things has not yet been taken out of the way in order for the man of lawlessness to begin his work)

but more importantly, they had not received the mark of the lamb

therefore at the end of all things, they will stand in the judgement and will be judged according to their works.

What were their works sir?
killing, rising up, uprooting, taking matters into their own hands, living by the sword?

all the things that CHRIST warned against

 

[miknik5]

There are three main Olivet accounts, Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13.

Surely it cannot be too hard to fathom what Jesus meant here?

In Luke we see Jesus coming out of the Temple after teaching, and responding to some people who are in awe of the Temple:

5 When some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and gifts dedicated to God, he said, 6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when not one stone will be left upon another; all will be thrown down.”

Some followers (who appear to be the disciples) then ask him:

“Teacher, when will this be, and what will be the sign that this is about to take place?”

So, Jesus explains that the temple, (built in 515BC under Zerubbabel, and known as Herod's Temple) will be comprehensively destroyed and the disciples ask when this will happen and what indications will there be that it is about to happen.

Correct?

Yes that's correct
however, back up to the beginning of the chapter in Luke and notice that Jesus is already looking at the hearts of the people and many appeared to already be falling asleep

 

[J7]

Did 2 thesselonians 2 occur yet?
jesus said something else in Luke

he warned his disciples that many will come professing "another Christ"

These whom you are discussing who revolted against roman authority, knew the truth of CHRIST and just because they revolted and would not bow down to Caesar does not mean they were believers in CHRIST and sealed by HIS SPIRIT

In fact, if they revolted, it kind of implies that they weren't in CHRIST either

It is actually the heart of the matter as well.

And yes, 100% correct. Revolting against Rome was not on Christ's Agenda

 

[J7]

Yes that's correct
however, back up to the beginning of the chapter in Luke and notice that Jesus is already looking at the hearts of the people and many appeared to already be falling asleep

with regard the widow?

 

[lastofall]

It was His disciples: specifically Peter, James, John, and Andrew (Mark 13:3) who asked him, and not some followers who appeared to be his disciples.

 

[J7]

Luke's account seems slightly different though.

The questions are outside the Temple, not on the Mt Of olives, and the questions are slightly different