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I would offer she is not considered everyones Our Lady as if she was still here reigning with Christ and not asleep as other saints. I would think of that idea as Our Lady is the strange woman used in the scriptures and not the chaste virgin bride of Christ is made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual unseen house of God His church, not one stone called Our Lady. The saints that are reining are here not those under the Sun, those saints are asleep . The ones that are reigning Christ they hold out his gospel of faith and do not require of others that they must seek after the approval of men (Pope)
Turning things upside down the Catholics have over 3500 mediators between God and man as disembodied spirits which the scriptures names as worker with familiar spirits and Catholics must call a new name patron saints, and this lady called Our Lady as queen of heaven the Queen of the disembodied spirits. Queen of the angels
One is our mediator between Our Father in heaven and men on earth not 3500 and rising As far as perpetual virginity that ended when she took or last breath. Her corrupted body continued to decay leading to total destruction. Its why Christ said of His own flesh it did not profit because corruption does not inherit incorruption as far as the Assumption, that is what it is an assumption and not revelation. The idea that God is still bringing new revelations through what the Catholic call private revelations are their own private interpretations This shows they have violated the loving commandment that protects us from believing false prophets that work to add to His word. subtracting the meanings so they can go above that which is written and add their oral traditions as if God was bringing new prophecy. The oral tradition of men never become the written tradition of God it a sign of the antichrists. I would think Cathoism is a dark place if the believers are there they should look as the light of God’s word leads them out or works for a change within.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Rev 22:18
I would think Catholicism is a dark place if the believers are there they should look as the light of God’s word leads them out or works for a change within.
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:19
Turning things upside down the Catholics have over 3500 mediators between God and man as disembodied spirits which the scriptures names as worker with familiar spirits and Catholics must call a new name patron saints, and this lady called Our Lady as queen of heaven the Queen of the disembodied spirits. Queen of the angels
One is our mediator between Our Father in heaven and men on earth not 3500 and rising As far as perpetual virginity that ended when she took or last breath. Her corrupted body continued to decay leading to total destruction. Its why Christ said of His own flesh it did not profit because corruption does not inherit incorruption as far as the Assumption, that is what it is an assumption and not revelation. The idea that God is still bringing new revelations through what the Catholic call private revelations are their own private interpretations This shows they have violated the loving commandment that protects us from believing false prophets that work to add to His word. subtracting the meanings so they can go above that which is written and add their oral traditions as if God was bringing new prophecy. The oral tradition of men never become the written tradition of God it a sign of the antichrists. I would think Cathoism is a dark place if the believers are there they should look as the light of God’s word leads them out or works for a change within.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Rev 22:18
I would think Catholicism is a dark place if the believers are there they should look as the light of God’s word leads them out or works for a change within.
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:19
For those who may not be aware (or are not willing to accept deception) the Council of Trent is as valid and binding today as it was 500 years ago. If you do not believe this, please study the Catechism of the Catholic Church (which is available online) very carefully and see all the references to the Council. Neither the Roman Catholic Church nor the Eastern Orthodox Church have changed their position since the Reformation (provided we simply ignore the recent statements of Pope Francis, which are objectionable to many conservative Catholics). The Council of Trent lays out Roman Catholic dogma is great detail, and all of it is still valid and still binding. So it is indeed an excellent document to determine the actual teachings of the RCC.
I'm sure that it will give you more ammunition to bash the Catholic church some more. Personally, speaking as a Catholic that no longer attends mass I would say that I really don't give a squat whether it's still valid or not. In fact, I have never heard about it. What other denominations have dogma that you take offence with besides the Catholic one that may lead to deception?
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You said that if all had been equal, the Church and the bible, we would not have needed the reformation.
In my very humble opinion, that means we need a reformation right now since so many unbiblical doctrine is circulating in our churches.
I find Word of Faith and Hypergrace to be very damaging movements which sound good but are not true Christianity.
People here speak of a "different" gospel.
I'd say these two movements are a different gospel.
So, yes. No Church is perfect...
In my very humble opinion, that means we need a reformation right now since so many unbiblical doctrine is circulating in our churches.
I find Word of Faith and Hypergrace to be very damaging movements which sound good but are not true Christianity.
People here speak of a "different" gospel.
I'd say these two movements are a different gospel.
So, yes. No Church is perfect...
I'm not going to actually do this, but you're as wrong as wrong can be.
For those following along who are just reading...
Please check out what the early Church theologians (or Fathers) thought about the Eucharist.
These are the persons who lived right after Jesus ascended or were taught by Apostles.
THEY believed that communion was the body and blood of Christ in some real way --- which is why we call it the Real Presence.
If you're interested, do this.
In John 6.54 the Greek for "eat" is "chew". Interesting.
Especially for all those here who love going to the Greek.
For those following along who are just reading...
Please check out what the early Church theologians (or Fathers) thought about the Eucharist.
These are the persons who lived right after Jesus ascended or were taught by Apostles.
THEY believed that communion was the body and blood of Christ in some real way --- which is why we call it the Real Presence.
If you're interested, do this.
In John 6.54 the Greek for "eat" is "chew". Interesting.
Especially for all those here who love going to the Greek.
Let me quickly say this:
One council does not INVALIDATE the previous one.
If this were true, we would not be able to trust the CC since it would mean that it's changing a doctrine.
HOWEVER, many practices have changed that do not change doctrine.
One that comes to mind is the Handling of divorced and remarried couples.
They were NOT ALLOWED to enter a Church prior to 1917.
After 1917, they were allowed to attend a liturgy but were not to receive communion.
Today, there is the possibility that they MAY POSSIBLY receive communion.
Vatican Council II in 1965 changed practices radically.
I find that you state matters of which you know nothing about.
As for my studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church...
This is amusing...
I'll do my best N6 !!!
LOL
One council does not INVALIDATE the previous one.
If this were true, we would not be able to trust the CC since it would mean that it's changing a doctrine.
HOWEVER, many practices have changed that do not change doctrine.
One that comes to mind is the Handling of divorced and remarried couples.
They were NOT ALLOWED to enter a Church prior to 1917.
After 1917, they were allowed to attend a liturgy but were not to receive communion.
Today, there is the possibility that they MAY POSSIBLY receive communion.
Vatican Council II in 1965 changed practices radically.
I find that you state matters of which you know nothing about.
As for my studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church...
This is amusing...
I'll do my best N6 !!!
LOL
Except for Mary, everything you've said is WRONG.
WHY do people keep promoting wrong concepts, doctrine, theology of the Catholic c hurch?
You speak of a board.
Mailmandan speaks of an answer thingy on the internet.
How about finding out the truth from the CC???
What if THEY believed ALL Protestants are Calvinists?
How would that make us non-Calvinists feel?
This must be pretty much how knowledgeable Catholics feel
MISREPRESENTED.
WHY do people keep promoting wrong concepts, doctrine, theology of the Catholic c hurch?
You speak of a board.
Mailmandan speaks of an answer thingy on the internet.
How about finding out the truth from the CC???
What if THEY believed ALL Protestants are Calvinists?
How would that make us non-Calvinists feel?
This must be pretty much how knowledgeable Catholics feel
MISREPRESENTED.
Why do catholics need to continuously deny their established doctrine? Because they cannot support it from the bible. They endeavor to use catholic traditions for support but they never have biblical context upon which to rest their beliefs.
I have seen catholics become very superstitious and they have always been very religious but never rooted and grounded in biblical faith. How can they take the word of the pope over the bible?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I have seen catholics become very superstitious and they have always been very religious but never rooted and grounded in biblical faith. How can they take the word of the pope over the bible?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There is a huge difference between "no church is perfect" and "one church knowingly, wilfully, and blatantly promotes false doctrine, and brings its adherents into bondage and ultimately eternal damnation".
At the same time this is not an indictment of the adherents, but of the system that deceives the adherents. The same could be said of the JWs and the Mormons (and several others). The whole point of these threads should be to cause Roman Catholics to (1) carefully and personally study the Scriptures, (2) be genuinely regenerated, and (3) then examine all RCC doctrines in the light of Scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
At the same time this is not an indictment of the adherents, but of the system that deceives the adherents. The same could be said of the JWs and the Mormons (and several others). The whole point of these threads should be to cause Roman Catholics to (1) carefully and personally study the Scriptures, (2) be genuinely regenerated, and (3) then examine all RCC doctrines in the light of Scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I am not any authority but I spent tens years looking at the cc doctrines of men and sharing opinions. Its like the missing bone theory called the assumption of Mary it is still missing and the Catholics have no way to pass around a finger or toe to be venerated as they clearly do with other patron saints relics used as idol image worship .In the end its an excuse to turn away the conversation . Rachel had the same kind of my image idol and hid hem from her father. They called teraphims the kind of idol that give a familiar face called a idol image in that way when seeking the assigned work of these disembodied workers with a familiar sprit. They cam make sure they have the correct one out of the legion (3500 and rising every day the Pope make a person a saint to add to the list. The legion (3500 and rising) never come up alone. Its why we pray of father in heaven he is the only Spirit not seen that we to seek after
Gen 31:19 And Laban went to shear his sheep: and Rachel had stolen the images that were her father's.
08655 t@raphiym {ter-aw-feme'}
pl. from 07495; TWOT - 2545; n m
AV - image 7, teraphim 6, idol 1, idolatry 1; 15
1) idolatry, idols, image(s), teraphim, family idol 1a) a kind of idol used in household shrine or worship
So I would suggest not misrepresented, they do not deny there are over 3,500 and rising patron saints as mediators between our Father in heaven and man. Scriptures warns of seeking after the legion of worker with familiar spirits hoping the Legion will come up in holy communion with the Pew Catstholics. No necromancy is not part of the gospel but is another gospel after the corrupted flsh of men..
Rachel of the old testament also walked after the flesh. The idea of a invisible church seemed humorous to her also just as it did when I tried to discuss it. I love the Catholics
In your case which die embodied spirit as a worker with a familiar spirit or that which the Catholic must call a patron saint do you commune with? Mary the Queen of the angels the mother of mercy called Our Lady.
Gen 31:19 And Laban went to shear his sheep: and Rachel had stolen the images that were her father's.
08655 t@raphiym {ter-aw-feme'}
pl. from 07495; TWOT - 2545; n m
AV - image 7, teraphim 6, idol 1, idolatry 1; 15
1) idolatry, idols, image(s), teraphim, family idol 1a) a kind of idol used in household shrine or worship
So I would suggest not misrepresented, they do not deny there are over 3,500 and rising patron saints as mediators between our Father in heaven and man. Scriptures warns of seeking after the legion of worker with familiar spirits hoping the Legion will come up in holy communion with the Pew Catstholics. No necromancy is not part of the gospel but is another gospel after the corrupted flsh of men..
Rachel of the old testament also walked after the flesh. The idea of a invisible church seemed humorous to her also just as it did when I tried to discuss it. I love the Catholics
In your case which die embodied spirit as a worker with a familiar spirit or that which the Catholic must call a patron saint do you commune with? Mary the Queen of the angels the mother of mercy called Our Lady.
I'm Protestant. I commune with Jesus mostly. Or God, in the name of Jesus.
You have too much out there.
It's all nonsense.
You're right about the saints. One for he eyes, one for the hands, etc.
Saints are not mediators and the chuch would very much like it if people stopped praying TO saints.
They're not supposed to pray TO saints. (as if they were God).
We have some that are "devoted" to this saint or that saint.
Of course this should stop.
You have too much out there.
It's all nonsense.
You're right about the saints. One for he eyes, one for the hands, etc.
Saints are not mediators and the chuch would very much like it if people stopped praying TO saints.
They're not supposed to pray TO saints. (as if they were God).
We have some that are "devoted" to this saint or that saint.
Of course this should stop.
Well, let's see if your observation is true. I will now quote directly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which includes a reference to the Council of Trent and promotes the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
977 Our Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved."[SUP]519[/SUP] Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification, so that "we too might walk in newness of life."[SUP]520[/SUP]
978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism that cleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them.... Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]521[/SUP]
979 In this battle against our inclination towards evil, who could be brave and watchful enough to escape every wound of sin? "If the Church has the power to forgive sins, then Baptism cannot be her only means of using the keys of the Kingdom of heaven received from Jesus Christ. the Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives."[SUP]522[/SUP]
980 It is through the sacrament of Penance that the baptized can be reconciled with God and with the Church:
Penance has rightly been called by the holy Fathers "a laborious kind of baptism." This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn.[SUP]523 [Here is the false doctrine with a reference -- 523 -- to Trent][/SUP]
520 ⇒ Rom 6:4; Cf. ⇒ 4:25.
521 Roman Catechism I, 11,3.
522 Roman Catechism I, 11,4.
523 Council of Trent (1551): DS 1672; Cf. St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 39,17: PG 36,356.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
- PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
- SECTION TWO I. THE CREEDS
- CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
- Article 10 "I BELIEVE IN THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS"
- I. One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins
- Article 10 "I BELIEVE IN THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS"
- CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
- SECTION TWO I. THE CREEDS
[HR][/HR]
I. One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins977 Our Lord tied the forgiveness of sins to faith and Baptism: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved."[SUP]519[/SUP] Baptism is the first and chief sacrament of forgiveness of sins because it unites us with Christ, who died for our sins and rose for our justification, so that "we too might walk in newness of life."[SUP]520[/SUP]
978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism that cleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them.... Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]521[/SUP]
979 In this battle against our inclination towards evil, who could be brave and watchful enough to escape every wound of sin? "If the Church has the power to forgive sins, then Baptism cannot be her only means of using the keys of the Kingdom of heaven received from Jesus Christ. the Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives."[SUP]522[/SUP]
980 It is through the sacrament of Penance that the baptized can be reconciled with God and with the Church:
Penance has rightly been called by the holy Fathers "a laborious kind of baptism." This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn.[SUP]523 [Here is the false doctrine with a reference -- 523 -- to Trent][/SUP]
[HR][/HR]
519 ⇒ Mk 16:15-16.520 ⇒ Rom 6:4; Cf. ⇒ 4:25.
521 Roman Catechism I, 11,3.
522 Roman Catechism I, 11,4.
523 Council of Trent (1551): DS 1672; Cf. St. Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 39,17: PG 36,356.
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U
1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.
"[SUP]204[/SUP]
1377 The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.[SUP]205
Catechism of the Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P41.HTM
[/SUP]
"[SUP]204[/SUP]
1377 The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.[SUP]205
Catechism of the Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P41.HTM
[/SUP]
