THINKING WITH THE GREEK MINDSET - TYPICAL TORAH OBSERVER SLAM

[sparkman]

Torah observers often exhibit the same mentality as the cultic group I was involved with as a young man..a very prideful, superior attitude regarding Scriptural knowledge.

Torah observers (and I use that term loosely because they don't keep the Torah..they can't because the Temple and Levitical priesthood is no longer in existence, and don't go to Jerusalem for the 3 annual pilgrimage festivals as Deuteronomy 16:16 requires, as well as all the other laws they ignore) often claim that non-Torah observers don't understand the Bible very well due to a Western mindset.

There is a grain of truth to this....those who don't take the time to understand cultural context often misunderstand some Scripture. However, knowledgeable Christians consider culture as one of the contextual factors when reading the Bible. Personally, I read several study Bibles when I'm trying to understand a given passage thoroughly.

Some pastors have ignored cultural context to their detriment, and I understand the legitimacy of the claim, however with Torah observers, they turn this grain of truth into a bold assertion that non-observers as a whole don't understand Scripture very well.

I would counter-claim that THEY don't understand the context between the New Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant. In fact, they claim the Mosaic Covenant is still in effect. So, THEY ignore the contextual issue of COVENANTS, claiming that days and diets are an issue with God.

I will get accused of attacking Torah observers, but I will simply note that their snide comments do not go unnoticed by me. It is obvious that they are attempting to discredit Christianity with them, and to assert that "Torah observers" have the true faith, or at least a more accurate version of it.

 

[sparkman]

As an additional note, this study Bible regarding cultural backgrounds has been referred to me, and I bought it recently. It is edited by Craig Keener and is called NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible: Bringing to Life the Ancient World of Scripture

https://www.amazon.com/NIV-Cultural...8-1&keywords=cultural+backgrounds+study+bible

It is important to understand cultural factors when studying the Bible, INCLUDING which covenant believers are under today.

 

[Willie-T]

A preacher friend used to refer to it as "putting on our sandals" whenever we opened the Bible....... getting into the shoes of whomever the current author was.

 

[Willie-T]

As an additional note, this study Bible regarding cultural backgrounds has been referred to me, and I bought it recently. It is edited by Craig Keener and is called NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible: Bringing to Life the Ancient World of Scripture

https://www.amazon.com/NIV-Cultural...8-1&keywords=cultural+backgrounds+study+bible

It is important to understand cultural factors when studying the Bible, INCLUDING which covenant believers are under today.

This is enough to convince me.... I love Tom!

“How I wish someone had put a book like this into my hands 50 years ago.” - N.T. Wright, Research Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity, University of St. Andrews, Scotland

 

[sparkman]

This is enough to convince me.... I love Tom!

I've read some of it, and it's good on the topics I've covered so far.

I will also note that other study Bibles cover cultural context well, too. I like the ESV Study Bible the most of all of my study Bibles.

 

[Grace777x70]

A preacher friend used to refer to it as "putting on our sandals" whenever we opened the Bible....... getting into the shoes of whomever the current author was.

I agree.

There is more to this then meets the casual eye too. I was reading from my journal this morning and this was in it. ( I don't know where it is from originally )

"Many doctrines of men are based on isolated scripture references outside of the context of God's work of redemption as it is revealed in Christ.

Any concept that excludes the "good news" of what God achieved on humanity's behalf in Christ is irrelevant, no matter how many scriptures can be quoted.

Jesus as the revealer and redeemer of God's blueprint image and likeness ( Hebrews 1:1-3 ) in human form is "the context of scripture". Not even the historic or traditional setting can distract from the revelation of "Christ in us."

We must remember that when Jesus and some of the prophets were speaking - most didn't have a spiritual clue at the time what He was really saying.

 

[Muzungu256]

as dj khaled would say: anotha one!!!!!!!! you keep making these threads bro what happened did they torture u in this church of God group or what lol??????? so many topics about em. i doubt there are even any armstrongites here mon chill homie

 

[sparkman]

I agree.

There is more to this then meets the casual eye too. I was reading from my journal this morning and this was in it. ( I don't know where it is from originally )

"Many doctrines of men are based on isolated scripture references outside of the context of God's work of redemption as it is revealed in Christ.

Any concept that excludes the "good news" of what God achieved on humanity's behalf in Christ is irrelevant, no matter how many scriptures can be quoted.

Jesus as the revealer and redeemer of God's blueprint image and likeness ( Hebrews 1:1-3 ) in human form is "the context of scripture". Not even the historic or traditional setting can distract from the revelation of "Christ in us."

We must remember that when Jesus and some of the prophets were speaking - most didn't have a spiritual clue at the time what He was really saying.

Pretty funny..even their vastly superior knowledge of cultural factors didn't help them grasp some very basic spiritual concepts

 

[sparkman]

as dj khaled would say: anotha one!!!!!!!! you keep making these threads bro what happened did they torture u in this church of God group or what lol??????? so many topics about em. i doubt there are even any armstrongites here mon chill homie

The same concepts apply to "Torah Observers" who are really "Torah breakers" because they don't keep it despite their claims. In essence, they are individuals who slam other Christians continually to discredit them, and to proclaim themselves to be the true or better understanding of Christianity.

But, the issue regarding context is an important one, regardless if I mention some detail from my past to support my assertions.

Am I prohibited from using examples from my past in reasoning? Did Paul use his experiences in Judaism when he wrote about various topics? No..he used his background as a basis for reasoning. I do nothing less. I am not Paul, but we all use our background to reason from.

If someone doesn't like my remarks, they don't need to read the threads either

 

[sparkman]

as dj khaled would say: anotha one!!!!!!!! you keep making these threads bro what happened did they torture u in this church of God group or what lol??????? so many topics about em. i doubt there are even any armstrongites here mon chill homie

They didn't torture me but they did teach me their poor theology and idiotic Sabbatarian conspiracy theories concerning the rest of Christianity being the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17. I had to wear a suit every Saturday and they claimed 23% of my gross income. That might qualify as torture

They were all deceived Judaizers so I don't hold it against them.

My philosophy is this..if groups want to make zany claims such as we don't understand Scripture properly due to our "Greek mindset", I am going to counter their claim by dragging them out in the open rather than allowing snide comments to go by unnoticed. They probably like the attention anyways...but it may warn a few off from their zany claims. I wish I'd read some things warning against Armstrongism before I became involved with them..the Internet wasn't available then.

 

[oldethennew]

well, as you have told us so many times, there was your 'mother', to guide and lead you...

 

[sparkman]

Here's a meme related to this topic.

Note that in 2 Corinthians 3:12-15, it says that Moses actually put the veil on to keep the Israelites from seeing the fading glory of the Mosaic Covenant.

And, that those who haven't came to Christ still have the same veil, except OVER THEIR HEARTS, denying that the Mosaic Covenant is not in effect.

See also Acts 15, Romans 7:1-6, Galatians 3-4 (the whole book in fact), Hebrews 7-8, Ephesians 2:13-15.

It is painfully obvious except for those who are like my friend Ray

 

[prove-all]

It is important to understand cultural factors when studying the Bible,

INCLUDING which covenant believers are under today.

why buy a book when the bible is free? ,
it shows culture and there customs at that time.


Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them,
and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,


Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath,
and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Paul was preaching to Gentiles in Gentile cities on the Sabbath.
it is recorded over 80 times Paul preached to gentials on the sabbath day.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

Acts 18:21
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh
in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.-

Acts 26:7
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night,
hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

-

In your so called bookends approach to the bible ,you really just
ignore and bypass what it says about "The God of Israel" in it.
https://www.bible.com/search/bible?q=The God of Israel&version_id=1


Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law,
and the service of God, and the promises;


Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things
to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.


-what covenant do the gentials fall under?


I will simply note that your snide comments do not go unnoticed

 

[oldethennew]

are you comparing 'ray' to your 'mother'???

 

[UndoubtingThomas]

[h=3]What do you make of this passage from Isaiah which states a remnant exists upon the earth even today?

Isaiah 11:11 In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.[/h]