WHAT DOES THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT TEACH?

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J

J7

Banned
#81
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#81
It is very much incumbent on Churches and Christians to make judgements.

1 Corinthians 5 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Is it not those who are inside that you are to judge? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”

Jesus said to judge other Christians by their fruits. As we are not to be yoked with unbelievers it is the first judgement I always try and make about someone. Are they a real Christian or not?

I am very careful though about judging someone who is a Christian, as they are a work in progress.

When I judge a non-Christian, it is not to feel superior, it is mainly for self-preservation to be honest.


But the judgements Paul is talking about are of course for the preservation of the Church, i.e. Church elders weeding out bad influences within the Church.
 
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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#82
Jul 3, 2015
56,057
26,163
113
#82
J7 said:
I am very careful though about judging someone who is a Christian, as they are a work in progress.
Click to expand...
Tell us another one...
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#83
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#83
J7 said:
It is very much incumbent on Churches and Christians to make judgements.

1 Corinthians 5 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Is it not those who are inside that you are to judge? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”

Jesus said to judge other Christians by their fruits. As we are not to be yoked with unbelievers it is the first judgement I always try and make about someone. Are they a real Christian or not?

I am very careful though about judging someone who is a Christian, as they are a work in progress.

When I judge a non-Christian, it is not to feel superior, it is mainly for self-preservation to be honest.


But the judgements Paul is talking about are of course for the preservation of the Church, i.e. Church elders weeding out bad influences within the Church.
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Yup yup Judging legalities. Not judging such as 'he is a hertic! She is a blasphemer." you would condemn one that way but the judging is says is kick the guy out until he repents.
 
J

J7

Banned
#84
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#84
Magenta said:
Tell us another one...
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If I call someone a liar I do not do it by cheap snidey inference.

You give women a bad name, and I understand Paul better and better. Not all women are like you, but it is because of those like you that Paul had to law down the Law I suspect.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#85
Jul 3, 2015
56,057
26,163
113
#85
J7 said:
If I call someone a liar I do not do it by cheap snidey inference.

You give women a bad name, and I understand Paul better and better. Not all women are like you, but it is because of those like you that Paul had to law down the Law I suspect.
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Who were you before you decided to break the rules and come back again under a new user name?
 
J

J7

Banned
#86
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#86
Trying to kill the messenger are we Magenta?

See how that works out for you.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#87
Jul 3, 2015
56,057
26,163
113
#87
J7 said:
Trying to kill the messenger are we Magenta?
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I see you repeatedly refuse to answer the question. I can't say I blame you, because you know that to be honest will get you banned again, hence you hide in the dark because your deeds are evil.

See how that works out for you.
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That is what you are trying to do with your constant misrepresentations. It's not working though. You still spread misinformation and pretend you know better than others who relay the truth.
 
J

J7

Banned
#88
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#88
Wow. You are a very foolish woman aren't you!

Be careful backbiting doesn't turn to witchcraft.
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#90
#90
plainguy said:
All the televised WOF programs I've investigated teach to sow your seed of faith dollars while the anointing is still strong. Same "special guest prophets" plugging for money too. I can't help but wonder where their fear/reverence of God is ?
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obviously they are terribly ignorant of scripture

there is one, forget his name for the moment, that every single time I have 'checked in', he has some sort of money drive going on

and it is always, always backed up with some pulled from it's original purpose verse or several verses, and he has actually gone so far as to say things like 'this is chapter 3 and verse 13 and so you should send 313. dollars for your blessing. (that's not an exact quote, but it is a true example)

I don't know how God can stand it

He is longsuffering. However, He does state through his prophets, that He does not suffer those who put words in His mouth and then say that is what He said. Yet, we have fake prophet after prophet on tv and online, making one lying prophecy after the other and their lies do not come to pass, yet itching ears cannot gobble up enough of this excrement (or dung as Paul would say, same thing I guess)
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#91
#91
Meggido said:
Actually Hagin plagiarized and stole most of Kenyons material, except for name and claim it from Kenyon's family, they sued him and won....Kenyons family and Hagin were bitter enemies...it was Hagin who suggested name it and claim it...If you read any of kenyons books, you will never find any direct link to the "prosperity Gospel"......the prosperity message was orignated by Hagin, who took Kenyon's positive confessions overboard...

Kenyon had issues and some of his theology was new ageism.....his work with orphanages was ahead of its time....and was based on the true application of faith...There are a few books Kenyon wrote that were dead on and Biblical, one is about the position of righteousness given at conversion.

If you read Hagin's books and then look at Kenyon's, you will notice a feww slight differences, bu the prosperity portion of WOF was hagin introduced....Kenyon died a very poor man in 1947....Hagin died a very wealthy man and international ministry and Bible school...His Son runs the Church and ministry now and is nothing but a sad old copy of his Daddy...he has altered his mannerism and looks and laughs, etc to mimmick Daddy....it's disgusting.....

The real couple behind Ken Hagin, Sr, rise to cult status was couple called "Mom and Pop Goodwin" they instructed Hagin, Sr. and he was their student.....Hagin reported he went to hell and met Jesus several times....Hagin also criticized many others in his books, without being direct about it....
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yeah. it's a convoluted history for sure. I think, from reading your posts, you would most likely have the inside scoop on it

lately, I've been doing quite a bit of reading online, and the DOCUMENTED (lest someone else comes along and tries to say we should not judge and everyone is a heretic to someone else etc etc) is beyond the pale. mind you, I have especially been praying for discernment and for the Holy Spirit to lead me out of all deception...just threw out 2 CD's I really liked because I found out the band behind them has basically no Christian witness other than the 'sound' (a very popular one) that they create

I love music, so that is especially significant for me. so many are led astray by and seduced by what sounds 'right' yet the spirit behind it is satanic.

I don't want it in our home and I am committed to truth and doing what needs to be done to protect us from this age and the deception that is getting worse and worse as the world 'systems', with satan as their author, take over and deceive more and more Christians. my husband is on board but I am the one with the 'music' haha, so that is up to me. he was surprised, I think, when I told him what I found out and that I threw out the music
 
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S

sevenseas

Guest
#92
#92
J7 said:
It is very much incumbent on Churches and Christians to make judgements.

1 Corinthians 5 12 For what have I to do with judging those outside? Is it not those who are inside that you are to judge? 13 God will judge those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”

Jesus said to judge other Christians by their fruits. As we are not to be yoked with unbelievers it is the first judgement I always try and make about someone. Are they a real Christian or not?

I am very careful though about judging someone who is a Christian, as they are a work in progress.

When I judge a non-Christian, it is not to feel superior, it is mainly for self-preservation to be honest.


But the judgements Paul is talking about are of course for the preservation of the Church, i.e. Church elders weeding out bad influences within the Church.
Click to expand...
first off, we do not judge NON CHRISTIANS. please provide scripture to say that we do if you can find it

second, we should be judging right, left and center...not the hearts and not their salvation

go be a Berean and keep yourself safe in this dark world
 
P

plainguy

Banned
#93
Nov 23, 2016
510
37
0
#93
sevenseas said:
obviously they are terribly ignorant of scripture

there is one, forget his name for the moment, that every single time I have 'checked in', he has some sort of money drive going on

and it is always, always backed up with some pulled from it's original purpose verse or several verses, and he has actually gone so far as to say things like 'this is chapter 3 and verse 13 and so you should send 313. dollars for your blessing. (that's not an exact quote, but it is a true example)

I don't know how God can stand it

He is longsuffering. However, He does state through his prophets, that He does not suffer those who put words in His mouth and then say that is what He said. Yet, we have fake prophet after prophet on tv and online, making one lying prophecy after the other and their lies do not come to pass, yet itching ears cannot gobble up enough of this excrement (or dung as Paul would say, same thing I guess)
Click to expand...
Rod Parsley's a classic example with his "prophet" buddy Coy Barker doing his bidding for money. "This is your season ... plant your faith seed (your money, naturally) for yourself, for your children, for your grandchildren ". And, of course, the more people you plant your faith seed for, the more it will cost you. And "God told me" just this morning while I was in prayer ... "now is your time". "Get to your phones while the anointing is powerful" and receive your 7X anointing". And while the prophet Coy Barker is spewing this, Pastor Rod's lifting his arms in unison saying "yes Lord" with the occasional tongues gibberish thrown in for good measure. And this is this "ministries" pattern without fail. Every single episode is a plea for your money c/w a new anointing week after week. Mike Murdoch's another "prophet" with the gift of conning people out of their money. Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton .. what a hoot he was .. lol, Todd Bentley, the dropkick healer and "anointed apostle" who left his wife for a prettier version. There's scores of them. These mentioned are "B list". The "A list" group is much more refined .. the bigger names. Kenneth Copeland (who prophesied that God called Ted Cruz to be the U.S. president in their last election .. and his multi-million dollar planes and homestead), Jess Duplantis and his multiple trips to heaven, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn and Paula White, Bill Johnson (NAR/Latter Rain), Sid Roth etc. etc. There's literally hundreds of them, if not thousands. Rodney Howard Browne, the former Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts (and now his son), the 6 million dollar man ... "or God will call him home" etc. I could go on all day. It couldn't be more obvious. And the common thread running through ALL OF THEM is their pentecostal roots c/w today's "gift of speaking in a heavenly language" ... their version of tongues. Need I say more ?
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#94
#94
plainguy said:
Rod Parsley's a classic example with his "prophet" buddy Coy Barker doing his bidding for money. "This is your season ... plant your faith seed (your money, naturally) for yourself, for your children, for your grandchildren ". And, of course, the more people you plant your faith seed for, the more it will cost you. And "God told me" just this morning while I was in prayer ... "now is your time". "Get to your phones while the anointing is powerful" and receive your 7X anointing". And while the prophet Coy Barker is spewing this, Pastor Rod's lifting his arms in unison saying "yes Lord" with the occasional tongues gibberish thrown in for good measure. And this is this "ministries" pattern without fail. Every single episode is a plea for your money c/w a new anointing week after week. Mike Murdoch's another "prophet" with the gift of conning people out of their money. Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton .. what a hoot he was .. lol, Todd Bentley, the dropkick healer and "anointed apostle" who left his wife for a prettier version. There's scores of them. These mentioned are "B list". The "A list" group is much more refined .. the bigger names. Kenneth Copeland (who prophesied that God called Ted Cruz to be the U.S. president in their last election .. and his multi-million dollar planes and homestead), Jess Duplantis and his multiple trips to heaven, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn and Paula White, Bill Johnson (NAR/Latter Rain), Sid Roth etc. etc. There's literally hundreds of them, if not thousands. Rodney Howard Browne, the former Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts (and now his son), the 6 million dollar man ... "or God will call him home" etc. I could go on all day. It couldn't be more obvious. And the common thread running through ALL OF THEM is their pentecostal roots c/w today's "gift of speaking in a heavenly language" ... their version of tongues. Need I say more ?
Click to expand...

I think Parsley is the one I was thinking of and yes, it is EVERY single episode.

Bentley is actually a blessing in disguise. He revealed what a bunch of false prophets Bickle and the gang really are

they had a special service to let him in to their self appointed Apostle circle and within a few months, every single one of them was proven a liar as Bentley proved to be an adulterous false healer with a demonic angel, 'Emma', for his best friend

it's not like God does not generously share the truth, it's that people run after what is false while saying 'how could the Israelites turn their backs on God when He performed so many miracles for them?'

the Bible reveals all hearts and nothing has changed. the so called sophistication of this world is just the devil in better duds

Oral Roberts...yeah...held ransom by God. If it wasn't ludicrous and if people did not believe this insanity, it would be funny

well, I speak in tongues myself, but have never gone outside of the biblical mandate for it. my background is actually anti tongues but I do believe the gifts of the Spirit are real and I do believe tongues are real

I don't want to turn this into another 'tongues' thread but I did want to mention it since you brought it up in the interest of being transparent

and no, I certainly do not agree with how so many throw tongues out as some kind of seal of God's approval

that is no sign of God's stamp of ok
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#95
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#95
plainguy said:
Rod Parsley's a classic example with his "prophet" buddy Coy Barker doing his bidding for money. "This is your season ... plant your faith seed (your money, naturally) for yourself, for your children, for your grandchildren ". And, of course, the more people you plant your faith seed for, the more it will cost you. And "God told me" just this morning while I was in prayer ... "now is your time". "Get to your phones while the anointing is powerful" and receive your 7X anointing". And while the prophet Coy Barker is spewing this, Pastor Rod's lifting his arms in unison saying "yes Lord" with the occasional tongues gibberish thrown in for good measure. And this is this "ministries" pattern without fail. Every single episode is a plea for your money c/w a new anointing week after week. Mike Murdoch's another "prophet" with the gift of conning people out of their money. Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton .. what a hoot he was .. lol, Todd Bentley, the dropkick healer and "anointed apostle" who left his wife for a prettier version. There's scores of them. These mentioned are "B list". The "A list" group is much more refined .. the bigger names. Kenneth Copeland (who prophesied that God called Ted Cruz to be the U.S. president in their last election .. and his multi-million dollar planes and homestead), Jess Duplantis and his multiple trips to heaven, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn and Paula White, Bill Johnson (NAR/Latter Rain), Sid Roth etc. etc. There's literally hundreds of them, if not thousands. Rodney Howard Browne, the former Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts (and now his son), the 6 million dollar man ... "or God will call him home" etc. I could go on all day. It couldn't be more obvious. And the common thread running through ALL OF THEM is their pentecostal roots c/w today's "gift of speaking in a heavenly language" ... their version of tongues. Need I say more ?
Click to expand...
Watched an investigative report on Robert Tilton once.....like the song....it's All About Da Money, Money, Money.....laal lallal lallala lalalala

Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness and denying the Lord Jesus <-----reserved unto the blackness of darkness forever for them.....
 
M

Meggido

Banned
#96
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
#96
Denadii said:
I know you do...But the Bible teaches the opposite. You are not following the Word. You are following the deceiver. Even the false teaching, you are supposed to teach the truth and rebuke those who follow the false teaching. That is the only way you are supposed to do it. Anything else is disobedience. Now run along and learn the Word.
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Coming from a guy who believes and posts the absurdities you do I think I will stick with the leading of the Spirit on this one...
 
M

Meggido

Banned
#97
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
#97
sevenseas said:
yeah. it's a convoluted history for sure. I think, from reading your posts, you would most likely have the inside scoop on it

lately, I've been doing quite a bit of reading online, and the DOCUMENTED (lest someone else comes along and tries to say we should not judge and everyone is a heretic to someone else etc etc) is beyond the pale. mind you, I have especially been praying for discernment and for the Holy Spirit to lead me out of all deception...just threw out 2 CD's I really liked because I found out the band behind them has basically no Christian witness other than the 'sound' (a very popular one) that they create

I love music, so that is especially significant for me. so many are led astray by and seduced by what sounds 'right' yet the spirit behind it is satanic.

I don't want it in our home and I am committed to truth and doing what needs to be done to protect us from this age and the deception that is getting worse and worse as the world 'systems', with satan as their author, take over and deceive more and more Christians. my husband is on board but I am the one with the 'music' haha, so that is up to me. he was surprised, I think, when I told him what I found out and that I threw out the music
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Understand completely...we started doing this a few years ago and it has really helped...and yeah we purged the house as well....

While modern worship is awesome in some regards, one must really look at the words.....Much of Hillsong and especially Bethel put out a lot of stuff that is simply not at all found in the Bible...it preys upon those who do not know the word....I have the same outlook on a lot of the old Hyms to...they simply were not at all Biblical....

For example and I am not coming agaisnt the artist...Lauren Daigle has song called Trust in oyu.....it fundamentally has serious flaws that are not found in scripture...here is the chorus:


When You don't move the mountains
I'm needing You to move<<<<<<<<Jesus said we speak to the mountains through our faith and they move, God does not move them on our behalf.

When You don't part the waters
I wish I could walk through<<<<<<<<<<Exodus 14.15 says God told Moses to tell the people to take a step and then the waters would part...God again, does not do it all....

When You don't give the answers
As I cry out to You<<<<<<<<<<<<The Bible shows in most places this is false....

I will trust, I will trust, I will trust in You

This might be viewed as nit-picking and hyper critical, but what we see this do is continue to erode God's word....

I have issues with this artist anyway. She has stated numerous items, she is only in Gospel music to make her name so she can go secular....my daughter stopped following her Instagram when many questionable things were posted that a true daughter of God would not be posting...
 
M

Meggido

Banned
#98
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
#98
plainguy said:
Rod Parsley's a classic example with his "prophet" buddy Coy Barker doing his bidding for money. "This is your season ... plant your faith seed (your money, naturally) for yourself, for your children, for your grandchildren ". And, of course, the more people you plant your faith seed for, the more it will cost you. And "God told me" just this morning while I was in prayer ... "now is your time". "Get to your phones while the anointing is powerful" and receive your 7X anointing". And while the prophet Coy Barker is spewing this, Pastor Rod's lifting his arms in unison saying "yes Lord" with the occasional tongues gibberish thrown in for good measure. And this is this "ministries" pattern without fail. Every single episode is a plea for your money c/w a new anointing week after week. Mike Murdoch's another "prophet" with the gift of conning people out of their money. Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton .. what a hoot he was .. lol, Todd Bentley, the dropkick healer and "anointed apostle" who left his wife for a prettier version. There's scores of them. These mentioned are "B list". The "A list" group is much more refined .. the bigger names. Kenneth Copeland (who prophesied that God called Ted Cruz to be the U.S. president in their last election .. and his multi-million dollar planes and homestead), Jess Duplantis and his multiple trips to heaven, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn and Paula White, Bill Johnson (NAR/Latter Rain), Sid Roth etc. etc. There's literally hundreds of them, if not thousands. Rodney Howard Browne, the former Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts (and now his son), the 6 million dollar man ... "or God will call him home" etc. I could go on all day. It couldn't be more obvious. And the common thread running through ALL OF THEM is their pentecostal roots c/w today's "gift of speaking in a heavenly language" ... their version of tongues. Need I say more ?
Click to expand...
these guys are courting Donald Trump because they want to be able to contribute money to political candidates at all levels....if you are a 501 3c of any kind, but especially a religious one you cannot contribute to political candidates...

Trump has stated he will allow them to do this, but what they do not know is they will likely lose their 5013c status...and to be honest....they should and the church should get out of the 501 3c business altogether...
 
S

sevenseas

Guest
#99
#99
Meggido said:
Understand completely...we started doing this a few years ago and it has really helped...and yeah we purged the house as well....

While modern worship is awesome in some regards, one must really look at the words.....Much of Hillsong and especially Bethel put out a lot of stuff that is simply not at all found in the Bible...it preys upon those who do not know the word....I have the same outlook on a lot of the old Hyms to...they simply were not at all Biblical....

For example and I am not coming agaisnt the artist...Lauren Daigle has song called Trust in oyu.....it fundamentally has serious flaws that are not found in scripture...here is the chorus:


When You don't move the mountains
I'm needing You to move<<<<<<<<Jesus said we speak to the mountains through our faith and they move, God does not move them on our behalf.

When You don't part the waters
I wish I could walk through<<<<<<<<<<Exodus 14.15 says God told Moses to tell the people to take a step and then the waters would part...God again, does not do it all....

When You don't give the answers
As I cry out to You<<<<<<<<<<<<The Bible shows in most places this is false....

I will trust, I will trust, I will trust in You

This might be viewed as nit-picking and hyper critical, but what we see this do is continue to erode God's word....

I have issues with this artist anyway. She has stated numerous items, she is only in Gospel music to make her name so she can go secular....my daughter stopped following her Instagram when many questionable things were posted that a true daughter of God would not be posting...
Click to expand...

well it was 'united' from Hillsong I threw out. check out Houston's son and wife...instagram posts...how they hang and what they do. seems the NY church is rife with just plain good ole regular sin and some extras thrown in. I've defended them in the past, but my eyes are opened now. not to mention the sexual abuse of younger women in the home church in Australia.
this stuff is documented and I'm not happy to find it. I cannot even say I am shocked, but I feel like 'what's real anymore?'

I didn't go looking for stuff, but it came across my desk, so there you have it

I've tossed a few things over the years but it's getting desperate when even Christian music is suspect. as I said, their lives are a disgrace as far as a witness for Christ goes, so the music, to me for sure, becomes worse than secular music with no good thing in it. I'm not saying anyone else should do what I did, we each have to answer for our own convictions and as the Lord leads us. As I have said often enough round these here parts, God knows our hearts and knows where we will be if we accept His guidance and He is good and He is gentle and does not force or disgrace

yeah I know that song by Daigle...beautiful voice...but I actually questioned that line regarding the waters myself..I'm listening in the car, hear it and go whaaaaa? however, when something is written about how a person feels, there are bound to be things like that and it's not the worse thing

hmmm...didn't know her thoughts on Christian music. I would be interested in reading that...have a link? just pm me with it if you want
 
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