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Thread: Defining Modesty

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    Wonderful! I get to repost!


    I made the effort to explain that those that dressed to kill, not those on the other end of the spectrum, was stealing God's glory.

    Glory stealing, not a common thief.
    I mis-read your post. I thought there was a comma between glory and stealing. my mistake. now, as far as lying and " other sins, " I still call that being judgemental.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonconformist View Post
    You're disbeying Heb 10:25. Go to church.

    Look at Matt 7 - the majority of his followers would take the broad way that leads to destruction. We can fairly assume the majority of people in church, though they might look clean, will go to hell. Yet there are a few who are true. Go to church and find those few.
    I do go to church, just a real church, that actually teaches the Gospel, not a " don't drink don't smoke, don't cuss, don't listen to rock music" control freak building. that is NOT the Gospel. that is man's opinions, which are fine, but should NOT be taught as Biblical truth.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameMcgee View Post
    i mean accidents happen

    you can rip your pants
    lol


    but if you didnt cover up

    you dont think thats shameless?


    or just because its not "sexual" its fine to let it show?
    No, of course not. I'm talking about societal mores....

    If, in the Amazon, you visit a tribe of native where the women are normally bare-breasted, are you going to insist they cover up just for YOU? Does that make the women of that tribe shameful?

    It's much the same for my example of Europe.... if it is normal, and not considered a sexual "come on" for women to be topless, then how is that shameful?

    If you see a woman breastfeeding her child, do you think she is being shameful?

    I think we are supposed to dress in a way as to not be enticing, or suggestive, or lewd, etc....

    If the normal mode of dress is for women to be topless, then it would not be shameful for a woman to do so.... IMHO

    There are some over-zealous religions that think it is sinful for a man to wear short pants, exposing his bare legs.... should that be bound on everyone?
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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    I do go to church, just a real church, that actually teaches the Gospel, not a " don't drink don't smoke, don't cuss, don't listen to rock music" control freak building. that is NOT the Gospel. that is man's opinions, which are fine, but should NOT be taught as Biblical truth.
    Good churches are rare. They're either legalists (IFB - Rock music, etc.) or too liberal (it's okay to get drunk and lie.)
    I like calvary chapel because they're nearest to the center, among all the churches I've been to.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    No, of course not. I'm talking about societal mores....

    If, in the Amazon, you visit a tribe of native where the women are normally bare-breasted, are you going to insist they cover up just for YOU? Does that make the women of that tribe shameful?

    It's much the same for my example of Europe.... if it is normal, and not considered a sexual "come on" for women to be topless, then how is that shameful?

    If you see a woman breastfeeding her child, do you think she is being shameful?

    I think we are supposed to dress in a way as to not be enticing, or suggestive, or lewd, etc....

    If the normal mode of dress is for women to be topless, then it would not be shameful for a woman to do so.... IMHO

    There are some over-zealous religions that think it is sinful for a man to wear short pants, exposing his bare legs.... should that be bound on everyone?
    I think the Bible has a minimum standard, which clearly includes the genitals, but it's unclear whether it includes more.

    Anything more ​is a cultural standard, and doesn't need to be heeded - AT LEAST, not if you're in another culture.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen63 View Post
    When I was a teenager, I couldn't keep my eyes off of women in bikinis, let alone a female streaker.

    While I can't judge other men, I'm sure they looked too.

    A streaker doesn't state his/her intentions, so I can't see how you can say there wasn't anything "sexual" about it.

    Perhaps it was because you saw a male streaker.
    Yes, both males and females. I preferred the females...

    What I was saying was that the concept of streaking was not sexual... it was usually some sort of protest... or "statement" being made... the purpose was NOT to sexually excite the viewers. It was a figurative "thumbing your nose", or "flipping off" the "establishment" (whatever that was deemed to be)

    I'm sure there were a lot of exhibitionists that took advantage of that short-lived fad, however...
    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Everyone is going to have their own standard. From talking to my Christian brothers, I understand that it can be difficult to see women as sisters if they're showing a bunch of skin. For that reason, I don't wear super skimpy or tight clothing.
    Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
    ~James 1:17

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    No question about it. Everyone (men and women) should wear loose fitting blue jeans (no holes), a loose fitting, long golf styled shirt, comfortable shoes and a wide brimmed hat.

    Take from someone who knows. The less you expose your skin, the less likely your are to have to have cancers removed from your skin.
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    2 Peter 1:5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    No, of course not. I'm talking about societal mores....

    If, in the Amazon, you visit a tribe of native where the women are normally bare-breasted, are you going to insist they cover up just for YOU? Does that make the women of that tribe shameful?
    id say thats immodest and shameful but no i would flee from a place like that unless i was called to preach to them Gods word.... in which case id be salt
    It's much the same for my example of Europe.... if it is normal, and not considered a sexual "come on" for women to be topless, then how is that shameful?
    disgusting... its shameful to God and the same thing with the amazon women applies to them
    If you see a woman breastfeeding her child, do you think she is being shameful?
    she should bring a blanket if she knows God
    I think we are supposed to dress in a way as to not be enticing, or suggestive, or lewd, etc....

    If the normal mode of dress is for women to be topless, then it would not be shameful for a woman to do so.... IMHO
    i think we are judged according to our knowledge but Gods law is written on our hearts... does it not say that?
    maybe youre onto something.. but.. there are a lot of messed up sinful traditions passed down

    There are some over-zealous religions that think it is sinful for a man to wear short pants, exposing his bare legs.... should that be bound on everyone?

    how short? booty shorts dont belong on anyone.... not even men

    my answers are bolded
    Last edited by NoNameMcgee; 3 Days Ago at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    I thought David Niven had a good take on streaking, when he got "streaked" while introducing Elizabeth Taylor at the Academy Awards show in 74.... after the guy strolled across the stage, flashing a peace sign... he calmly quipped....

    "Isn't it fascinating to think that probably the only laugh that man will ever get in life is by stripping off and showing his shortcomings?"
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    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameMcgee View Post
    my answers are bolded
    Ok.... we just disagree... except on the booty shorts....
    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    Ok.... we just disagree... except on the booty shorts....
    lol fair enough
    ^_^

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuviel View Post
    Everyone is going to have their own standard. From talking to my Christian brothers, I understand that it can be difficult to see women as sisters if they're showing a bunch of skin. For that reason, I don't wear super skimpy or tight clothing.
    I agree with your approach to this.... I applaud it.

    If we were at the beach, however, I wouldn't expect you to remain covered, head to toe.

    Personal responsibility plays a huge role here.... If you are wearing a bikini that has everything covered up, and I cannot be in your presence without thinking lustful thoughts, then the problem is with ME, not you.
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    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonconformist View Post
    You're disbeying Heb 10:25. Go to church.

    Look at Matt 7 - the majority of his followers would take the broad way that leads to destruction. We can fairly assume the majority of people in church, though they might look clean, will go to hell. Yet there are a few who are true. Go to church and find those few.
    How can you possibly make the assumption that the majority of people that go to church that might look clean are going to hell? Are you in the majority or the minority?
    M & M's melt in your mouth and not in your hands.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by gb9 View Post
    I do go to church, just a real church, that actually teaches the Gospel, not a " don't drink don't smoke, don't cuss, don't listen to rock music" control freak building. that is NOT the Gospel. that is man's opinions, which are fine, but should NOT be taught as Biblical truth.


    Ok but if you're a mature Christian you wont want to do many of those things. Perhaps Im old fashioned. I dont think we ought to be looking like the world. We shouldn't be going to the same places they go,doing all the same things they do. JMO
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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by tourist View Post
    How can you possibly make the assumption that the majority of people that go to church that might look clean are going to hell? Are you in the majority or the minority?
    ... I gave the text for my "assumption." I even explained it. What's unclear?

    There's also Matt 7:21-23

    As for which I'm in, you assume I look clean. Maybe I look absolutely filthy .

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Hi nonconformist,

    Modesty is truly a heart issue.

    A woman dressed completely in modest apparel can be so immodest in her behavior. Her eyes can be the most immodest seductive thing about her. Or the way she moves her body can be very sensual to bring attention to herself.

    But I'm thinking your question is about modest dressing. I can give you a personal example of something that happened to me.

    In the church I was going to at the time, I had a friend I would visit at her home now and then. I use to work out at them gym so I was in long shorts, but I had a loose fitting tank top on. I was fairly young in the Lord, but not too young where I probably should have known about tank tops. But naive me, I didn't think a lot of things through at that time.

    So anyway, one day when I visited, it was right after going to the gym. I don't normally go out in public in my gym clothes, but this day I had to visit right afterwards.

    I either dropped something off or picked something up, we chatted for a few minutes and then I went home.

    So later, when we visited another time she mentioned my tank top. She went on to tell me that when I lift my arm or reach forward, a person can see my bra. I had no idea and was embarrassed, but I was glad she told me. She also mentioned that when I bend over I'm revealing more than what I probably wanted to. And she was so right. It is quite immodest and I'm so glad she told me and thanked her for it.

    Later at home I continued to think about what she said and I remembered her sharing with me some things about her past. One of them was that she had lesbian attraction. That made me even more embarrassed to think that I might have caused her to stumble in that way. That made me feel awful!

    So I threw out all my tank tops. I didn't want to be a cause for someone to stumble in any way at all. And because they really are immodest, I just didn't want to wear them anymore.

    I think it's fine to wear things at home that only you and your husband might see, but you never know when someone might stop in for a visit or the mailman comes to your door, etc.

    So anyway, I began doing a study on modesty. I've read a couple of books and am so much more careful with my dress.

    And just so you know, husbands aren't always the best person to tell you if you're modest or not. Some Christian husbands want their women dressed seductively, I have a friend that is that way.

    One of the things that I've read is for woman to look in the mirror, really look. Get a full length mirror and get another mirror so you can look at your backside as well.

    If I have a scooped neck top on, I'll bend over and draw my arms together to see if I'm showing what I don't want to show. But for the most part I wear polo shirts and crew shirts so that I don't have to worry about that. And button up blouses.

    And personally, I have given up on jeans. They're just too tight. They don't sell pure cotton jeans anymore. Or at least I can't find any. And there aren't a lot of relaxed fit jeans either to choose from.

    The ones with stretch in them get tighter after washing than when you first bought them. They are designed to cling more to the body.

    So I buy cargo pants that are full cotton and I have some active wear that are made of......well I'm not sure what the material is, but they fit loosely and look nice and sporty. Yes, I'm still the tom-boy type. I don't like to wear dresses or skirts. But the ones I have are longer and loose fitting as well. Not the newer styles that cling to everything. I feel like I'm wearing saran wrap when I've tried on clothes like that.

    But again, even in how we dress, I still think it's a condition of the heart. If you're heart is modest before the Lord, you'll dress modestly as well.

    Christian men have given their thoughts on the issue and I really feel so bad for men. Sure they need to do their part, but we women don't need to be making it more difficult for them. So one of the books I read had comments from men and what they wish women knew.

    Men are visually aroused. Many women don't realize this. But God created them this way, it's a part of their make up. And women make it very difficult for men to come to church and worship God.

    The book reminded me of one church we went to. The poor college studies poured out their hearts and asked for prayer. They mentioned how difficult it was to go to college and not be bombarded with opportunities for lusting because of the lack of clothing or style of clothing the young girls wear. My heart went out to these young men.

    So in the book, men mentioned the things that really bothered them. From what I recall, short skirts dresses of course are a problem.

    Low cut anything showing cleavage, or low enough that went they bend over the breast are exposed.

    Overly doused with perfume was another, especially certain scents that are meant to arouse. Having pockets on your top right at the breast causes their eyes to go directly there. Same with print that's printed over the breast area.

    Pockets at the behind draw men's eyes as does print in that area. I probably should go and find the book because there's a lot I'm not remembering.

    But just think...... anything a woman does to draw attention to her sexual areas would be a challenge for a man. Why would we as Christians want to dress that way anyway.

    And yes, I don't think men should go shirtless either. They need to dress modestly themselves and not draw attention to their bodies in a sexual way either.

    I'm reminded of the verse about whatever we do in word or deed, we are to do it to the glory of God.

    And the other is that we're not to put a stumbling block in front of others to cause them to sin.


    Meggido, Conversationand and Maka like this.

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    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonconformist View Post
    ... I gave the text for my "assumption." I even explained it. What's unclear?

    There's also Matt 7:21-23

    As for which I'm in, you assume I look clean. Maybe I look absolutely filthy .
    I assume nothing, that's between you and God.
    M & M's melt in your mouth and not in your hands.

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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post
    Hi nonconformist,

    Modesty is truly a heart issue.

    A woman dressed completely in modest apparel can be so immodest in her behavior. Her eyes can be the most immodest seductive thing about her. Or the way she moves her body can be very sensual to bring attention to herself.

    But I'm thinking your question is about modest dressing. I can give you a personal example of something that happened to me.

    In the church I was going to at the time, I had a friend I would visit at her home now and then. I use to work out at them gym so I was in long shorts, but I had a loose fitting tank top on. I was fairly young in the Lord, but not too young where I probably should have known about tank tops. But naive me, I didn't think a lot of things through at that time.

    So anyway, one day when I visited, it was right after going to the gym. I don't normally go out in public in my gym clothes, but this day I had to visit right afterwards.

    I either dropped something off or picked something up, we chatted for a few minutes and then I went home.

    So later, when we visited another time she mentioned my tank top. She went on to tell me that when I lift my arm or reach forward, a person can see my bra. I had no idea and was embarrassed, but I was glad she told me. She also mentioned that when I bend over I'm revealing more than what I probably wanted to. And she was so right. It is quite immodest and I'm so glad she told me and thanked her for it.

    Later at home I continued to think about what she said and I remembered her sharing with me some things about her past. One of them was that she had lesbian attraction. That made me even more embarrassed to think that I might have caused her to stumble in that way. That made me feel awful!

    So I threw out all my tank tops. I didn't want to be a cause for someone to stumble in any way at all. And because they really are immodest, I just didn't want to wear them anymore.

    I think it's fine to wear things at home that only you and your husband might see, but you never know when someone might stop in for a visit or the mailman comes to your door, etc.

    So anyway, I began doing a study on modesty. I've read a couple of books and am so much more careful with my dress.

    And just so you know, husbands aren't always the best person to tell you if you're modest or not. Some Christian husbands want their women dressed seductively, I have a friend that is that way.

    One of the things that I've read is for woman to look in the mirror, really look. Get a full length mirror and get another mirror so you can look at your backside as well.

    If I have a scooped neck top on, I'll bend over and draw my arms together to see if I'm showing what I don't want to show. But for the most part I wear polo shirts and crew shirts so that I don't have to worry about that. And button up blouses.

    And personally, I have given up on jeans. They're just too tight. They don't sell pure cotton jeans anymore. Or at least I can't find any. And there aren't a lot of relaxed fit jeans either to choose from.

    The ones with stretch in them get tighter after washing than when you first bought them. They are designed to cling more to the body.

    So I buy cargo pants that are full cotton and I have some active wear that are made of......well I'm not sure what the material is, but they fit loosely and look nice and sporty. Yes, I'm still the tom-boy type. I don't like to wear dresses or skirts. But the ones I have are longer and loose fitting as well. Not the newer styles that cling to everything. I feel like I'm wearing saran wrap when I've tried on clothes like that.

    But again, even in how we dress, I still think it's a condition of the heart. If you're heart is modest before the Lord, you'll dress modestly as well.

    Christian men have given their thoughts on the issue and I really feel so bad for men. Sure they need to do their part, but we women don't need to be making it more difficult for them. So one of the books I read had comments from men and what they wish women knew.

    Men are visually aroused. Many women don't realize this. But God created them this way, it's a part of their make up. And women make it very difficult for men to come to church and worship God.

    The book reminded me of one church we went to. The poor college studies poured out their hearts and asked for prayer. They mentioned how difficult it was to go to college and not be bombarded with opportunities for lusting because of the lack of clothing or style of clothing the young girls wear. My heart went out to these young men.

    So in the book, men mentioned the things that really bothered them. From what I recall, short skirts dresses of course are a problem.

    Low cut anything showing cleavage, or low enough that went they bend over the breast are exposed.

    Overly doused with perfume was another, especially certain scents that are meant to arouse. Having pockets on your top right at the breast causes their eyes to go directly there. Same with print that's printed over the breast area.

    Pockets at the behind draw men's eyes as does print in that area. I probably should go and find the book because there's a lot I'm not remembering.

    But just think...... anything a woman does to draw attention to her sexual areas would be a challenge for a man. Why would we as Christians want to dress that way anyway.

    And yes, I don't think men should go shirtless either. They need to dress modestly themselves and not draw attention to their bodies in a sexual way either.

    I'm reminded of the verse about whatever we do in word or deed, we are to do it to the glory of God.

    And the other is that we're not to put a stumbling block in front of others to cause them to sin.


    Thank you. Really. I know it's not your problem if I lust, but let me be the first to say that I appreciate this a lot.

    Also, one of the things no one talks about, wouldn't you want your spouses to only look at you in that way? So if you dress modestly your sister in Christ's husband(you brother in Christ) will encouraged or at least helped. And if your sister in Christ dresses modestly your husband will be helped. Wouldn't it be great if all you had to do was throw on a low cut tank top and some jeans for around the house and be considered as "dressing sexy" by your husband?
    Desertsrose likes this.
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    Default Re: Defining Modesty

    Hi Conversationand,

    I agree that men need to learn how to deal with the area of lust. Job made a covenant with his eyes......I have made a covenant with my eyes; How then could I gaze at a virgin?

    So men need to do whatever it is they need to do to not lust after woman. Looking the other way, leaving a room, avoiding people who dress improperly, etc. Stop going to exercise gyms or even quit going to the beach if that's a problem.

    People are going to think I'm out in left field, and that's okay, but I don't wear a bathing suit. I wear shorts and a shirt that's not see through when it's wet.

    I've heard that woman have this issues now and is becoming more prevalent. As I grew up, this wasn't a problem, but today it's growing by leaps and bounds for both men and women to have issues with lust.

    As to woman and the way they dress, they do need to ask themselves if they're culpable. They need to make sure they aren't enticing men to look at them. Our hearts need to be pure before the Lord.

    Our attitude needs to be this:

    1 Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

    So in this example, if my immodest clothes are causing another to stumble, I will never wear those immodest clothes again.

    Romans 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.

    And in this example, if I'm causing my brother or sister to stumble in any way, I need to make sure my words and deeds aren't that obstacle.
    Meggido, Conversationand and Maka like this.

    He has told you, O man, what is good;

    And what does the Lord require of you
    But to do justice, to love kindness,
    And to walk humbly with your God?
    Micah 6:8




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