I have a question about being a Christian and Drinking Alcohol
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Thank you for your honest responses 
For some people, alcohol is not a problem. They may never have drank to get drunk, they can walk away from an unfinished drink, they might overdo it occasionally or more likely never at all, they are not plagued with an obsession to drink once they pick up, regardless of the consequences, and they know when to stop and can.
A "true" alcoholic has little to no control, cannot stop when they want, has no idea where they might end up or where that first drink may lead (though honestly many have experience with it to the point that they do know, it just does not bear thinking about because as the literature says incomprehensible demoralization. Here is most of Chapter 3 of the Big Book of AA, More on Alcoholism:
MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals--usually brief--were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.
We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing a making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet.
Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
Here are some of the methods we have tried: drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums--we could increase the list ad infinitum.
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
Though there is no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers most of us could have stopped drinking. But the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time. We have heard of a few instances where people, who showed definite signs of alcoholism, were able to stop for a long period because of an overpowering desire to do so. Here is one.
A man of thirty was doing a great deal of spree drinking. He was very nervous in the morning after these bouts and quieted himself with more liquor. He was ambitious to succeed in business, but saw that he would get nowhere if he drank at all. Once he started, he had no control whatever. He made up his mind that until he had been successful in business and had retired, he would not touch another drop. An exceptional man, he remained bone dry for twenty-five years and retired at the age of fifty-five, after a successful and happy business career. Then he fell victim to a belief which practically every alcoholic has -- that his long period of sobriety and self-discipline had qualified him to drink as other men. Out came his carpet slippers and a bottle. In two months he was in a hospital, puzzled and humiliated. He tried to regulate his drinking for a little while, making several trips to the hospital meantime. Then, gathering all his forces, he attempted to stop altogether and found he could not. Every means of solving his problem which money could buy was at his disposal. Every attempt failed. Though a robust man at retirement, he went to pieces quickly and was dead within four years.
This case contains a powerful lesson. Most of us have believed that if we remained sober for a long stretch, we could thereafter drink normally. But here is a man who at fifty-five years found he was just where he had left off at thirty. We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again: "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in a short time as bad as ever. If we are planning to stop drinking, there must be no reservation of any kind, nor any lurking notion that someday we will be immune to alcohol.
Young people may be encouraged by this man's experience to think that they can stop, as he did, on their own will power. We doubt if many of them can do it, because none will really want to stop, and hardly one of them, because of the peculiar mental twist already acquired, will find he can win out. Several of our crowd, men of thirty or less, had been drinking only a few years, but they found themselves as helpless as those who had been drinking twenty years.
To be gravely affected, one does not necessarily have to drink a long time nor take the quantities some of us have. This is particularly true of women. Potential female alcoholics often turn into the real thing and are gone beyond recall in a few years. Certain drinkers, who would be greatly insulted if called alcoholics, are astonished at their inability to stop. We, who are familiar with the symptoms, see large numbers of potential alcoholics among young people everywhere. But try and get them to see it!
As we look back, we feel we had gone on drinking many years beyond the point where we could quit on our will power. If anyone questions whether he has entered this dangerous area, let him try leaving liquor alone for one year. If he is a real alcoholic and very far advanced, there is scant chance of success. In the early days of our drinking we occasionally remained sober for a year or more, becoming serious drinkers again later. Though you may be able to stop for a considerable period, you may yet be a potential alcoholic. We think few, to whom this book will appeal, can stay dry anything like a year. Some will be drunk the day after making their resolutions; most of them within a few weeks.
For those who are unable to drink moderately the question is how to stop altogether. We are assuming, of course, that the reader desires to stop. Whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not. Many of us felt that we had plenty of character. There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it--this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish.
How then shall we help our readers determine, to their own satisfaction, whether they are one of us? The experiment of quitting for a period of time will be helpful, but we think we can render an even greater service to alcoholic sufferers and perhaps to the medical fraternity. So we shall describe some of the mental states that precede a relapse into drinking, for obviously this is the crux of the problem.
What sort of thinking dominates an alcoholic who repeats time after time the desperate experiment of the first drink? Friends who have reasoned with him after a spree which has brought him to the point of divorce or bankruptcy are mystified when he walks directly into a saloon. Why does he? Of what is he thinking?
*edit
Whatever the precise definition of the word may be, we call this plain insanity. How can such a lack of proportion, of the ability to think straight, be called anything else?
*edit
In some circumstances we have gone out deliberately to get drunk, feeling ourselves justified by nervousness, anger, worry, depression, jealousy or the like. But even in this type of beginning we are obliged to admit that our justification for a spree was insanely insufficient in the light of what always happened. We now see that when we began to drink deliberately, instead or casually, there was little serious or effective thought during the period of premeditation of what the terrific consequences might be.
Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of skipping in front of fast-moving vehicles. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun. Luck then deserts him and he is slightly injured several times in succession. You would expect him, if he were normal, to cut it out. Presently he is hit again and this time has a fractured skull. Within a week after leaving the hospital a fast-moving trolley car breaks his arm. He tells you he has decided to stop jay-walking for good, but in a few weeks he breaks both legs.
On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promises to be careful or to keep off the streets altogether. Finally, he can no longer work, his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He tries every known means to get the jay-walking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways. But the day he comes out he races in front of a fire engine, which breaks his back. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he?
You may think our illustration is too ridiculous. But is it? We, who have been through the wringer, have to admit if we substituted alcoholism for jay-walking, the illustration would fit exactly. However intelligent we may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. It's strong language--but isn't it true?
Some of you are thinking: "Yes, what you tell is true, but it doesn't fully apply. We admit we have some of these symptoms, but we have not gone to the extremes you fellows did, nor are we likely to, for we understand ourselves so well after what you have told us that such things cannot happen again. We have not lost everything in life through drinking and we certainly do not intend to. Thanks for the information."
That may be true of certain nonalcoholic people who, though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time, are able to stop or moderate, because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be ABSOLUTELY UNABLE TO STOP DRINKING ON THE BASIS OF SELF-KNOWLEDGE. This is a point we wish to emphasize and re-emphasize, to smash home upon our alcoholic readers as it has been revealed to us out of bitter experience. Let us take another illustration.
*edit
Let him tell you about it: "I was much impressed with what you fellows said about alcoholism, and I frankly did not believe it would be possible for me to drink again. I rather appreciated your ideas about the subtle insanity which precedes the first drink, but I was confident it could not happen to me after what I had learned. I reasoned I was not so far advanced as most of you fellows, that I had been usually successful in licking my other personal problems, and that I would therefore be successful where you men failed. I felt I had every right to be self-confident, that it would be only a matter of exercising my will power and keeping on guard.
"In this frame of mind, I went about my business and for a time all was well. I had no trouble refusing drinks, and began to wonder if I had not been making too hard work of a simple matter. One day I went to Washington to present some accounting evidence to a government bureau. I had been out of town before during this particular dry spell, so there was nothing new about that. Physically, I felt fine. Neither did I have any pressing problems or worries. My business came off well, I was pleased and knew my partners would be too. It was the end of a perfect day, not a cloud on the horizon.
"I went to my hotel and leisurely dressed for dinner. AS I CROSSED THE THRESHOLD OF THE DINING ROOM, THE THOUGHT CAME TO MIND THAT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A COUPLE OF COCKTAILS WITH DINNER. THAT WAS ALL. NOTHING MORE. I ordered a cocktail and my meal. Then I ordered another cocktail. After dinner I decided to take a walk. When I returned to the hotel it struck me a highball would be fine before going to bed, so I stepped into the bar and had one. I remember having several more that night and plenty next morning. I have a shadowy recollection of being in a airplane bound for New York, and of finding a friendly taxicab driver at the landing field instead of my wife. The driver escorted me for several days. I know little of where I went or what I said and did. Then came the hospital with the unbearable mental and physical suffering.
"As soon as I regained my ability to think, I went carefully over that evening in Washington. NOT ONLY HAD I BEEN OFF GUARD, I HAD MADE NO FIGHT WHATEVER AGAINST THE FIRST DRINK. THIS TIME I HAD NOT THOUGHT OF THE CONSEQUENCES AT ALL. I had commenced to drink as carelessly as thought the cocktails were ginger ale. I now remembered what my alcoholic friends had told me, how they prophesied that if I had an alcoholic mind, the time and place would come--I would drink again. They had said that though I did raise a defense, it would one day give way before some trivial reason for having a drink. Well, just that did happen and more, for what I had learned of alcoholism did not occur to me at all. I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. I saw that will power and self-knowledge would not help in those strange mental blank spots. I had never been able to understand people who said that a problem had them hopelessly defeated. I knew then. It was the crushing blow.
"Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. They grinned, which I didn't like so much, and then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I were really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions. They piled on me heaps of evidence to the effect that an alcoholic mentality, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself.
"Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program of action which a hundred of them had followed successfully. Though I had been only a nominal churchman, their proposals were not, intellectually, hard to swallow. But the program of action, though entirely sensible, was pretty drastic. It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out of the window. That was not easy. But the moment I made up my mind to go through with the process, I had the curious feeling that my alcoholic condition was relieved, as in fact it proved to be.
"Quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all my problems. I have since been brought into a way of living infinitely more satisfying and, I hope, more useful than the life I lived before. My old manner of life was by no means a bad one, but I would not exchange its best moments for the worst I have now. I would not go back to it even if I could."
Fred's story speaks for itself. We hope it strikes home to thousands like him. He had felt only the first nip of the wringer. Most alcoholics have to be pretty badly mangled before they really commence to solve their problems.
Many doctors and psychiatrists agree with our conclusions. One of these men, staff member of a world-renowned hospital,
recently made this statement to some of us: "What you say about the general hopelessness of the average alcoholics' plight is, in my opinion, correct. As to two of you men, whose stories I have heard, there is no doubt in my mind that you were 100% hopeless, apart from divine help. Had you offered yourselves as patients at this hospital, I would not have taken you, if I had been able to avoid it. People like you are too heartbreaking. Though not a religious person, I have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours. For most cases, there is virtually no other solution."
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power. Chapter 3 | Big Book of A.A. 2nd edition
For some people, alcohol is not a problem. They may never have drank to get drunk, they can walk away from an unfinished drink, they might overdo it occasionally or more likely never at all, they are not plagued with an obsession to drink once they pick up, regardless of the consequences, and they know when to stop and can. A "true" alcoholic has little to no control, cannot stop when they want, has no idea where they might end up or where that first drink may lead (though honestly many have experience with it to the point that they do know, it just does not bear thinking about because as the literature says incomprehensible demoralization. Here is most of Chapter 3 of the Big Book of AA, More on Alcoholism:
MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals--usually brief--were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.
We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing a making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet.
Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
Here are some of the methods we have tried: drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums--we could increase the list ad infinitum.
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
Though there is no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers most of us could have stopped drinking. But the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time. We have heard of a few instances where people, who showed definite signs of alcoholism, were able to stop for a long period because of an overpowering desire to do so. Here is one.
A man of thirty was doing a great deal of spree drinking. He was very nervous in the morning after these bouts and quieted himself with more liquor. He was ambitious to succeed in business, but saw that he would get nowhere if he drank at all. Once he started, he had no control whatever. He made up his mind that until he had been successful in business and had retired, he would not touch another drop. An exceptional man, he remained bone dry for twenty-five years and retired at the age of fifty-five, after a successful and happy business career. Then he fell victim to a belief which practically every alcoholic has -- that his long period of sobriety and self-discipline had qualified him to drink as other men. Out came his carpet slippers and a bottle. In two months he was in a hospital, puzzled and humiliated. He tried to regulate his drinking for a little while, making several trips to the hospital meantime. Then, gathering all his forces, he attempted to stop altogether and found he could not. Every means of solving his problem which money could buy was at his disposal. Every attempt failed. Though a robust man at retirement, he went to pieces quickly and was dead within four years.
This case contains a powerful lesson. Most of us have believed that if we remained sober for a long stretch, we could thereafter drink normally. But here is a man who at fifty-five years found he was just where he had left off at thirty. We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again: "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in a short time as bad as ever. If we are planning to stop drinking, there must be no reservation of any kind, nor any lurking notion that someday we will be immune to alcohol.
Young people may be encouraged by this man's experience to think that they can stop, as he did, on their own will power. We doubt if many of them can do it, because none will really want to stop, and hardly one of them, because of the peculiar mental twist already acquired, will find he can win out. Several of our crowd, men of thirty or less, had been drinking only a few years, but they found themselves as helpless as those who had been drinking twenty years.
To be gravely affected, one does not necessarily have to drink a long time nor take the quantities some of us have. This is particularly true of women. Potential female alcoholics often turn into the real thing and are gone beyond recall in a few years. Certain drinkers, who would be greatly insulted if called alcoholics, are astonished at their inability to stop. We, who are familiar with the symptoms, see large numbers of potential alcoholics among young people everywhere. But try and get them to see it!
As we look back, we feel we had gone on drinking many years beyond the point where we could quit on our will power. If anyone questions whether he has entered this dangerous area, let him try leaving liquor alone for one year. If he is a real alcoholic and very far advanced, there is scant chance of success. In the early days of our drinking we occasionally remained sober for a year or more, becoming serious drinkers again later. Though you may be able to stop for a considerable period, you may yet be a potential alcoholic. We think few, to whom this book will appeal, can stay dry anything like a year. Some will be drunk the day after making their resolutions; most of them within a few weeks.
For those who are unable to drink moderately the question is how to stop altogether. We are assuming, of course, that the reader desires to stop. Whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not. Many of us felt that we had plenty of character. There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it--this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish.
How then shall we help our readers determine, to their own satisfaction, whether they are one of us? The experiment of quitting for a period of time will be helpful, but we think we can render an even greater service to alcoholic sufferers and perhaps to the medical fraternity. So we shall describe some of the mental states that precede a relapse into drinking, for obviously this is the crux of the problem.
What sort of thinking dominates an alcoholic who repeats time after time the desperate experiment of the first drink? Friends who have reasoned with him after a spree which has brought him to the point of divorce or bankruptcy are mystified when he walks directly into a saloon. Why does he? Of what is he thinking?
*edit
Whatever the precise definition of the word may be, we call this plain insanity. How can such a lack of proportion, of the ability to think straight, be called anything else?
*edit
In some circumstances we have gone out deliberately to get drunk, feeling ourselves justified by nervousness, anger, worry, depression, jealousy or the like. But even in this type of beginning we are obliged to admit that our justification for a spree was insanely insufficient in the light of what always happened. We now see that when we began to drink deliberately, instead or casually, there was little serious or effective thought during the period of premeditation of what the terrific consequences might be.
Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of skipping in front of fast-moving vehicles. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun. Luck then deserts him and he is slightly injured several times in succession. You would expect him, if he were normal, to cut it out. Presently he is hit again and this time has a fractured skull. Within a week after leaving the hospital a fast-moving trolley car breaks his arm. He tells you he has decided to stop jay-walking for good, but in a few weeks he breaks both legs.
On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promises to be careful or to keep off the streets altogether. Finally, he can no longer work, his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He tries every known means to get the jay-walking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways. But the day he comes out he races in front of a fire engine, which breaks his back. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he?
You may think our illustration is too ridiculous. But is it? We, who have been through the wringer, have to admit if we substituted alcoholism for jay-walking, the illustration would fit exactly. However intelligent we may have been in other respects, where alcohol has been involved, we have been strangely insane. It's strong language--but isn't it true?
Some of you are thinking: "Yes, what you tell is true, but it doesn't fully apply. We admit we have some of these symptoms, but we have not gone to the extremes you fellows did, nor are we likely to, for we understand ourselves so well after what you have told us that such things cannot happen again. We have not lost everything in life through drinking and we certainly do not intend to. Thanks for the information."
That may be true of certain nonalcoholic people who, though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time, are able to stop or moderate, because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be ABSOLUTELY UNABLE TO STOP DRINKING ON THE BASIS OF SELF-KNOWLEDGE. This is a point we wish to emphasize and re-emphasize, to smash home upon our alcoholic readers as it has been revealed to us out of bitter experience. Let us take another illustration.
*edit
Let him tell you about it: "I was much impressed with what you fellows said about alcoholism, and I frankly did not believe it would be possible for me to drink again. I rather appreciated your ideas about the subtle insanity which precedes the first drink, but I was confident it could not happen to me after what I had learned. I reasoned I was not so far advanced as most of you fellows, that I had been usually successful in licking my other personal problems, and that I would therefore be successful where you men failed. I felt I had every right to be self-confident, that it would be only a matter of exercising my will power and keeping on guard.
"In this frame of mind, I went about my business and for a time all was well. I had no trouble refusing drinks, and began to wonder if I had not been making too hard work of a simple matter. One day I went to Washington to present some accounting evidence to a government bureau. I had been out of town before during this particular dry spell, so there was nothing new about that. Physically, I felt fine. Neither did I have any pressing problems or worries. My business came off well, I was pleased and knew my partners would be too. It was the end of a perfect day, not a cloud on the horizon.
"I went to my hotel and leisurely dressed for dinner. AS I CROSSED THE THRESHOLD OF THE DINING ROOM, THE THOUGHT CAME TO MIND THAT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A COUPLE OF COCKTAILS WITH DINNER. THAT WAS ALL. NOTHING MORE. I ordered a cocktail and my meal. Then I ordered another cocktail. After dinner I decided to take a walk. When I returned to the hotel it struck me a highball would be fine before going to bed, so I stepped into the bar and had one. I remember having several more that night and plenty next morning. I have a shadowy recollection of being in a airplane bound for New York, and of finding a friendly taxicab driver at the landing field instead of my wife. The driver escorted me for several days. I know little of where I went or what I said and did. Then came the hospital with the unbearable mental and physical suffering.
"As soon as I regained my ability to think, I went carefully over that evening in Washington. NOT ONLY HAD I BEEN OFF GUARD, I HAD MADE NO FIGHT WHATEVER AGAINST THE FIRST DRINK. THIS TIME I HAD NOT THOUGHT OF THE CONSEQUENCES AT ALL. I had commenced to drink as carelessly as thought the cocktails were ginger ale. I now remembered what my alcoholic friends had told me, how they prophesied that if I had an alcoholic mind, the time and place would come--I would drink again. They had said that though I did raise a defense, it would one day give way before some trivial reason for having a drink. Well, just that did happen and more, for what I had learned of alcoholism did not occur to me at all. I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. I saw that will power and self-knowledge would not help in those strange mental blank spots. I had never been able to understand people who said that a problem had them hopelessly defeated. I knew then. It was the crushing blow.
"Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. They grinned, which I didn't like so much, and then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I were really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions. They piled on me heaps of evidence to the effect that an alcoholic mentality, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself.
"Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program of action which a hundred of them had followed successfully. Though I had been only a nominal churchman, their proposals were not, intellectually, hard to swallow. But the program of action, though entirely sensible, was pretty drastic. It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out of the window. That was not easy. But the moment I made up my mind to go through with the process, I had the curious feeling that my alcoholic condition was relieved, as in fact it proved to be.
"Quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all my problems. I have since been brought into a way of living infinitely more satisfying and, I hope, more useful than the life I lived before. My old manner of life was by no means a bad one, but I would not exchange its best moments for the worst I have now. I would not go back to it even if I could."
Fred's story speaks for itself. We hope it strikes home to thousands like him. He had felt only the first nip of the wringer. Most alcoholics have to be pretty badly mangled before they really commence to solve their problems.
Many doctors and psychiatrists agree with our conclusions. One of these men, staff member of a world-renowned hospital,
recently made this statement to some of us: "What you say about the general hopelessness of the average alcoholics' plight is, in my opinion, correct. As to two of you men, whose stories I have heard, there is no doubt in my mind that you were 100% hopeless, apart from divine help. Had you offered yourselves as patients at this hospital, I would not have taken you, if I had been able to avoid it. People like you are too heartbreaking. Though not a religious person, I have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours. For most cases, there is virtually no other solution."
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power. Chapter 3 | Big Book of A.A. 2nd edition
Thank you for your honest responses For some people, alcohol is not a problem. They may never have drank to get drunk, they can walk away from an unfinished drink, they might overdo it occasionally or more likely never at all, they are not plagued with an obsession to drink once they pick up, regardless of the consequences, and they know when to stop and can. ...
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power. Chapter 3 | Big Book of A.A. 2nd edition
For some people, alcohol is not a problem. They may never have drank to get drunk, they can walk away from an unfinished drink, they might overdo it occasionally or more likely never at all, they are not plagued with an obsession to drink once they pick up, regardless of the consequences, and they know when to stop and can. ...Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power. Chapter 3 | Big Book of A.A. 2nd edition
I just feel different now--inwardly and out! My intentions have changed and I no longer desire to get drunk (a first for me in my life!) and the time away from it cleared my mind. I don't know, it is what it is. It was nice to unwind with a few, that's all. My mind and heart was in the right place and God knows that.
Thanks for all your help!
You are welcome, Radius. I would simply suggest you be careful
A few more thoughts (I had typed this out before I saw the response I am now replying to)
I realize that Chapter 3 of the Big Book is a long read and a lot to take in. You say you are in a new country and feeling stressed. Have you reached out to your community for support? Is there Christian fellowship you are part of? Do you have any other support networks? I attend both NA and AA and I find them immeasurably helpful to me. I attended AA for a few years before getting clean and sober, just to listen to people talk about the realities of life, the pain, suffering, challenges, struggles. I needed to have people articulate it for me. They speak truth in those rooms, and now, many years later, clean and sober for multiple years, listening to people share, I hear the solutions, I hear life on life's terms, I hear the fellowship speak and God is ever present.
The program is all about allowing God to work in our lives. Many are surprised to learn that, and some outright deny it, but I tell you the truth AA is based on Christian beliefs and Scriptural principles! There is One Who has all power. That One is God. May you find Him now. Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our
personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
A few more thoughts (I had typed this out before I saw the response I am now replying to)
I realize that Chapter 3 of the Big Book is a long read and a lot to take in. You say you are in a new country and feeling stressed. Have you reached out to your community for support? Is there Christian fellowship you are part of? Do you have any other support networks? I attend both NA and AA and I find them immeasurably helpful to me. I attended AA for a few years before getting clean and sober, just to listen to people talk about the realities of life, the pain, suffering, challenges, struggles. I needed to have people articulate it for me. They speak truth in those rooms, and now, many years later, clean and sober for multiple years, listening to people share, I hear the solutions, I hear life on life's terms, I hear the fellowship speak and God is ever present.
The program is all about allowing God to work in our lives. Many are surprised to learn that, and some outright deny it, but I tell you the truth
AA is based on Christian beliefs and Scriptural principles! There is One Who has all power. That One is God. May you find Him now. Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon. Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our
personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
In the Bible is ok to drink Alcohol...
In the Bible it is not ok to get drunk on Alcohol....
It would be better if you found some other way to combat the effects of stress..
There are christians who teach absolute abstinence from alcohol and it is nothing but a tradition of men that seems right to them and they have mixed it into their religion and teach alcohol abstinence as being Biblical when it is not Biblical at all.. So do not be overly influenced by total abstinence advocates who proclaim any alcohol drinking as being a sin.. it isn't..
In the Bible it is not ok to get drunk on Alcohol....
It would be better if you found some other way to combat the effects of stress..
There are christians who teach absolute abstinence from alcohol and it is nothing but a tradition of men that seems right to them and they have mixed it into their religion and teach alcohol abstinence as being Biblical when it is not Biblical at all.. So do not be overly influenced by total abstinence advocates who proclaim any alcohol drinking as being a sin.. it isn't..
There are many here who would disagree with you and I about this. But if you are not abusing it aka getting drunk, causing other to stumble or allowing it to master you, I don't see the harm. I think it is why the Bible doesn't say NOT to drink alcohol. I believe it is a personal freedom we have being a Christian. We have to remain responsible about it. Jesus drank but remained responsible about it and didn't get drunk--but that didn't stop the pharisees from labeling Him a drunk or a future drunk as ugly said I will surely be.
As you said, having a couple cold ones could be a blessing from God for those who drink responsibly.
As you said, having a couple cold ones could be a blessing from God for those who drink responsibly.
You are welcome, Radius. I would simply suggest you be careful
A few more thoughts (I had typed this out before I saw the response I am now replying to)
I realize that Chapter 3 of the Big Book is a long read and a lot to take in. You say you are in a new country and feeling stressed. Have you reached out to your community for support? Is there Christian fellowship you are part of? Do you have any other support networks? I attend both NA and AA and I find them immeasurably helpful to me. I attended AA for a few years before getting clean and sober, just to listen to people talk about the realities of life, the pain, suffering, challenges, struggles. I needed to have people articulate it for me. They speak truth in those rooms, and now, many years later, clean and sober for multiple years, listening to people share, I hear the solutions, I hear life on life's terms, I hear the fellowship speak and God is ever present.
The program is all about allowing God to work in our lives. Many are surprised to learn that, and some outright deny it, but I tell you the truth AA is based on Christian beliefs and Scriptural principles! There is One Who has all power. That One is God. May you find Him now. Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our
personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
A few more thoughts (I had typed this out before I saw the response I am now replying to)
I realize that Chapter 3 of the Big Book is a long read and a lot to take in. You say you are in a new country and feeling stressed. Have you reached out to your community for support? Is there Christian fellowship you are part of? Do you have any other support networks? I attend both NA and AA and I find them immeasurably helpful to me. I attended AA for a few years before getting clean and sober, just to listen to people talk about the realities of life, the pain, suffering, challenges, struggles. I needed to have people articulate it for me. They speak truth in those rooms, and now, many years later, clean and sober for multiple years, listening to people share, I hear the solutions, I hear life on life's terms, I hear the fellowship speak and God is ever present.
The program is all about allowing God to work in our lives. Many are surprised to learn that, and some outright deny it, but I tell you the truth
AA is based on Christian beliefs and Scriptural principles! There is One Who has all power. That One is God. May you find Him now. Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon. Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our
personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
I guess it would make me feel too weak and it would feel awkward walking in there.I don't know any English speaking churches yet either. But I'll keep my eyes peeled!
Well I am living in South Korea atm, and I can't communicate well enough for any support. Besides, I'm definitely not the type to join any support groups for stress related issues I guess it would make me feel too weak and it would feel awkward walking in there.
I don't know any English speaking churches yet either. But I'll keep my eyes peeled!
I guess it would make me feel too weak and it would feel awkward walking in there.I don't know any English speaking churches yet either. But I'll keep my eyes peeled!
But the thing is, those rooms are full of people just WAITING for someone to walk in and ask for help The sharing may or may nor blow you away. Meetings here are pretty awesome, so I may be biased Hey, look what I found!
The following churches offer religious services in English and, where specified, in other languages. The churches are listed in alphabetical order. Note that Protestant churches in the Yongsan area (Hannam-dong and Itaewon including HaeBangChon) are on a separate page (scroll to the bottom of this page to find it).
Because of the number of churches in the Yongsan-gu area, K4E has created a separate page for Protestant churches in Yongsan. Scroll below for the complete list of religious institutions on the site.
Anglican Cathedral - Jung-gu
Seoul Anglican Catheral is located across from Seoul City Hall beside Deoksu Palace. Address: 3 Jeong-dong, Jung-gu. Holy Communion in English every Sunday at 9.30 AM. with Sunday School for school age children. Contact the vicar at 02-739-0785 or [email protected]. The telephone will connect you to the Cathedral - please ask for the Vicar of the English Mission.
CityLight Seoul - Mapo-gu
CityLight Seoul holds its service at rolex replica the Yegee Arts Theatre (as of 7 May 2017). Address: Gosan-Gil 32, Mapo-gu, Seoul, Directions: Go out Exit 5 of Sinchon Station (Line 2, Stop 240). Take a right at the first alley. Walk up the street about 200m until the "T" intersection. Yegee Arts Center will be on your left. For more information, contact [email protected].
Christian Science Society
Special focus on Christian healing. Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy in 17 languages; also available, the Weekly Bible Lesson, The Christian Science Monitor Weekly; children's books & CDs; study groups in English or Korean. Sunday worship 11AM, Sunday School 11AM, Wednesday evening meetings 7:30 PM. Info: E-mail [email protected]. Tel English: 02-379-1334.
Chung-dong First Methodist Church - Jung-gu
Chung-dong First Methodist Church has been called the birthplace of Protestantism in Korea. Address: 46, Jeongdong-gil, Jung-gu. The church is Korean with an English ministry. Sundays: 10:00 AM (Contemporary Service) / 2:00 PM (Vibrant Traditional Service with Holy Communion) / Kid's Club starts at 12:50 PM.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Seodaemun-gu
English-language sessions at 10:30 AM on the 1st Saturday. Address: 500-23 Changcheon-dong, Seodaemun-gu. Tel: 02-334-9100.
Community of Christ - Seodaemun-gu
Sunday activities include Worship at 11:15 am. The service is in English and Korean. Lunch is served after the service. Following this is a time for fellowship.
Cornerstone International Ministry (previously Seong-Bok English Ministry) - Seongbuk-gu
English worship on Sundays at 10:30 AM. Located near Korea University station on subway line 6, stop 640. Walk straight from exit 3 for 250 meters until you pass Hyundai Oilbank. The building is Seongbok Presbyterian Church. Address: 28-1 Seongbuk-gu, Jongnam-dong. The English Ministry is located on the 1st floor of the main building in the Vision Chapel. For more information or pastoral care, please contact Moses at 010-9126-2714.
Covenant Church - Songpa-gu
A Reformed, English-speaking church in Seoul. Sunday English Service at 2:30 PM, with small groups following starting at 4:00. Covenant Church is a gospel-centered church affiliated with the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America) and is located at Shincheon Station (stop 217 on line 2). Address: 3rd Floor, 1-2 Samjeon Building, Samjeon-dong, Song-pa gu.
Full Gospel Gangnam Church- Gangnam gu
An evangelical and Charismatic based English speaking congregation meeting in the heart of Gangnam Sundays at 12pm on the fifth floor in the Jerusalem Chapel, Full Gospel Gangnam Church (Gangnam Sinbokum Gyohay) for a worship service in English, followed by lunch and bible study between 2:00pm-2:45pm and the language classes from 3 to 5P.M . Both the church service and the bible study are translated into Korean, but taught in English.
Jubilee Church - Gangnam-gu
This is an English speaking church with an English ministry not connected to any other church in Korea. Sunday Worship for Adults at 10:00 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. with Sunday Children's Ministry from 10:00-11:35 a.m. and Youth Ministry 10:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Wednesday servcice 8:00-9:30 p.m. Located near Sinsa Station at Sang Ah Bldg, 3 & 4 Floor, 527-1 Sinsa-dong, Gangnam-gu. Directions on church`s website. Info: 02-569-2293 or 02-569-2294 / [email protected].
Myungsung Church - Gangdong-gu
Inter-denominational format of praise and worship at 1:20PM. Sundays. Located in Myeongil-dong, near exit 4 of Myeongil Station on subway line 5, Stop 551. Address: 330-5 Myungil-dong, Gangdong-gu. Info: 02-440-9080 or 02-6930-9450~2. Email: [email protected].
New Philadelphia (Philly) Church - Gwanak-gu (and Itaewon)
This is the English congregation of Jeil Sungdo Presbyterian Church. Two locations in Seoul - one near SNU (Hillside) and the other in Itaewon. Sunday Service at 1:00 p.m. Address: 98-344 Shillim-2-dong, Annex Building 5th Floor, Gwanak-gu. Directions available in English on the church's website.
Ocean City Seoul - Mapo-gu
Sunday workshop: English and Korean Service: 11AM / English Only: 4:00–6:00PM.
Presbyterian Church of the Lord - English Ministry - Songpa-gu
Jamsil-based international worship, Bible study and fellowship events. Sunday worship at 11:30AM.
Redeemer Gangnam - Seocho-gu
Gospel centered church at 1327-33 Seochodong, Seocho gu, Worship 11AM / Bible Study 2:30 PM Sundays. Bible Study also Wednesdays and Thursdays at 7PM.
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) - Seodaemun-gu
Meets every Sunday at 11AM near the back gate of Ewha University (behind the University's Engineering School). Address: 2-87 Shinchon-dong, Seodaemun-gu.
Saemoonan English Ministry (SEM Presbyterian Church) - Jongno-gu
Presbyterian church with English service every Sundays from 11:30AM to 12:40PM in Room B137 of Midopa Gwanghwamoon Building (due to Church reconstruction) at 42 Sinmunno 1-ga, Jongno-gu.
Salt and Light Chapel - Dobong-gu
Salt and Light Chapael offers an English service in Dobong-gu, (the northern part of Seoul) starting at 2PM every Sunday afternoon on the 4th floor of Yum Kwang Presbyterian Church. There are bible studies after the service for anyone who is interested. Salt and Life Chapel also has many other activities such as Christmas/Easter dinners, outings with other ex-pats, and after service fellowship.
The Salvation Army - Seoul International Corps (Church) - Jung-gu - MOVED to Ansan (2017)
SaRang Community Church - Seocho-gu
SaRang is a non-denominational church offering services in Korean, English, Japanese and Chinese. Sunday English services: Adult 10AM, 1PM, 2PM / Youth 10AM / Children 12PM Japanese at 2;30PM and Chinese at 2PM.
Seoul Bible Church - Gwanak-gu
Expositional sermons in English. Sunday School at 10AM. Sunday Worship at 11AM. Services are translated into both English and Korean.
Seoul Grace Community Church - Seodaemun-gu (previously AMEN Seoul)
Seoul Grace Community church is an English speaking ministry that meets in Soedaemun at 4:30pm on Sundays in the Concert Hall of Ahyun Church. It is a gospel-centered, grace-focused ministry in the heart of Seoul serving the international community.
Seoul Union Church - Seodamun-gu
Worship with the English-speaking community: 9:30 AM Sunday school for all ages at 11AM. Seoul Union Church is an international, interdenominational, and independent self-governed church that provides contemporary and creative worship services, as well as Bible teachings.
Seoul Presbyterian Church - Gangnam-gu
English Sunday service at 11:20AM in Westminster Hall (Room 101).
Somang Presbyterian Church - Gangnam-gu
English-language worship service "Voice of Hope" at 2PM Sundays. English Sunday school from 12:45 PM to 1:45 PM at basement 3-1 of Missionary Hall. Preacher, Pastor Robert von Oeyen.
Yoido Full Gospel Church - Yeongdeungpo-gu
Senior Pastor: Dr. Yonggi Cho. Service with simultaneous interpretation in English at 9AM and 11AM at 2nd Education Building Room 901.
Youngnak Presbyterian Church - Jung-gu
International Worship in English Sundays 10AM (Service Building) 3PM (Mission Chapel) -- Pastor Bill Majors (church 2280-0228 / cell 011-613-5896).
21 Mission Seoul Sung Rak Church - Yeongdeungpo-gu
Services at 10AM, Noon, 2PM. (simualtaneous English or French translation) and at 6AM in Korean. Services are also offered in Japanese, Chinese, Spanish and Russian. International Chapel and Bible Study at 2PM Service in Chinese, Japanese or Vietnamese available upon request.
Last Updated on 2017-07-19 http://www.korea4expats.com/article-protestant-churches-seoul.html
It may be better not to think of them as stress related issues? I dunno, and I don't want to harp at you about this, because it does take a lot of courage to walk into a room full of strangers and ask for help But the thing is, those rooms are full of people just WAITING for someone to walk in and ask for help The sharing may or may nor blow you away. Meetings here are pretty awesome, so I may be biased
Hey, look what I found!
The following churches offer religious services in English and, where specified, in other languages. The churches are listed in alphabetical order. Note that Protestant churches in the Yongsan area (Hannam-dong and Itaewon including HaeBangChon) are on a separate page (scroll to the bottom of this page to find it).
Because of the number of churches in the Yongsan-gu area, K4E has created a separate page for Protestant churches in Yongsan. Scroll below for the complete list of religious institutions on the site.
Anglican Cathedral - Jung-gu
Seoul Anglican Catheral is located across from Seoul City Hall beside Deoksu Palace. Address: 3 Jeong-dong, Jung-gu. Holy Communion in English every Sunday at 9.30 AM. with Sunday School for school age children. Contact the vicar at 02-739-0785 or [email protected]. The telephone will connect you to the Cathedral - please ask for the Vicar of the English Mission.
CityLight Seoul - Mapo-gu
CityLight Seoul holds its service at rolex replica the Yegee Arts Theatre (as of 7 May 2017). Address: Gosan-Gil 32, Mapo-gu, Seoul, Directions: Go out Exit 5 of Sinchon Station (Line 2, Stop 240). Take a right at the first alley. Walk up the street about 200m until the "T" intersection. Yegee Arts Center will be on your left. For more information, contact [email protected].
Christian Science Society
Special focus on Christian healing. Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy in 17 languages; also available, the Weekly Bible Lesson, The Christian Science Monitor Weekly; children's books & CDs; study groups in English or Korean. Sunday worship 11AM, Sunday School 11AM, Wednesday evening meetings 7:30 PM. Info: E-mail [email protected]. Tel English: 02-379-1334.
Chung-dong First Methodist Church - Jung-gu
Chung-dong First Methodist Church has been called the birthplace of Protestantism in Korea. Address: 46, Jeongdong-gil, Jung-gu. The church is Korean with an English ministry. Sundays: 10:00 AM (Contemporary Service) / 2:00 PM (Vibrant Traditional Service with Holy Communion) / Kid's Club starts at 12:50 PM.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Seodaemun-gu
English-language sessions at 10:30 AM on the 1st Saturday. Address: 500-23 Changcheon-dong, Seodaemun-gu. Tel: 02-334-9100.
Community of Christ - Seodaemun-gu
Sunday activities include Worship at 11:15 am. The service is in English and Korean. Lunch is served after the service. Following this is a time for fellowship.
Cornerstone International Ministry (previously Seong-Bok English Ministry) - Seongbuk-gu
English worship on Sundays at 10:30 AM. Located near Korea University station on subway line 6, stop 640. Walk straight from exit 3 for 250 meters until you pass Hyundai Oilbank. The building is Seongbok Presbyterian Church. Address: 28-1 Seongbuk-gu, Jongnam-dong. The English Ministry is located on the 1st floor of the main building in the Vision Chapel. For more information or pastoral care, please contact Moses at 010-9126-2714.
Covenant Church - Songpa-gu
A Reformed, English-speaking church in Seoul. Sunday English Service at 2:30 PM, with small groups following starting at 4:00. Covenant Church is a gospel-centered church affiliated with the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America) and is located at Shincheon Station (stop 217 on line 2). Address: 3rd Floor, 1-2 Samjeon Building, Samjeon-dong, Song-pa gu.
Full Gospel Gangnam Church- Gangnam gu
An evangelical and Charismatic based English speaking congregation meeting in the heart of Gangnam Sundays at 12pm on the fifth floor in the Jerusalem Chapel, Full Gospel Gangnam Church (Gangnam Sinbokum Gyohay) for a worship service in English, followed by lunch and bible study between 2:00pm-2:45pm and the language classes from 3 to 5P.M . Both the church service and the bible study are translated into Korean, but taught in English.
Jubilee Church - Gangnam-gu
This is an English speaking church with an English ministry not connected to any other church in Korea. Sunday Worship for Adults at 10:00 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. with Sunday Children's Ministry from 10:00-11:35 a.m. and Youth Ministry 10:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Wednesday servcice 8:00-9:30 p.m. Located near Sinsa Station at Sang Ah Bldg, 3 & 4 Floor, 527-1 Sinsa-dong, Gangnam-gu. Directions on church`s website. Info: 02-569-2293 or 02-569-2294 / [email protected].
Myungsung Church - Gangdong-gu
Inter-denominational format of praise and worship at 1:20PM. Sundays. Located in Myeongil-dong, near exit 4 of Myeongil Station on subway line 5, Stop 551. Address: 330-5 Myungil-dong, Gangdong-gu. Info: 02-440-9080 or 02-6930-9450~2. Email: [email protected].
New Philadelphia (Philly) Church - Gwanak-gu (and Itaewon)
This is the English congregation of Jeil Sungdo Presbyterian Church. Two locations in Seoul - one near SNU (Hillside) and the other in Itaewon. Sunday Service at 1:00 p.m. Address: 98-344 Shillim-2-dong, Annex Building 5th Floor, Gwanak-gu. Directions available in English on the church's website.
Ocean City Seoul - Mapo-gu
Sunday workshop: English and Korean Service: 11AM / English Only: 4:00–6:00PM.
Presbyterian Church of the Lord - English Ministry - Songpa-gu
Jamsil-based international worship, Bible study and fellowship events. Sunday worship at 11:30AM.
Redeemer Gangnam - Seocho-gu
Gospel centered church at 1327-33 Seochodong, Seocho gu, Worship 11AM / Bible Study 2:30 PM Sundays. Bible Study also Wednesdays and Thursdays at 7PM.
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) - Seodaemun-gu
Meets every Sunday at 11AM near the back gate of Ewha University (behind the University's Engineering School). Address: 2-87 Shinchon-dong, Seodaemun-gu.
Saemoonan English Ministry (SEM Presbyterian Church) - Jongno-gu
Presbyterian church with English service every Sundays from 11:30AM to 12:40PM in Room B137 of Midopa Gwanghwamoon Building (due to Church reconstruction) at 42 Sinmunno 1-ga, Jongno-gu.
Salt and Light Chapel - Dobong-gu
Salt and Light Chapael offers an English service in Dobong-gu, (the northern part of Seoul) starting at 2PM every Sunday afternoon on the 4th floor of Yum Kwang Presbyterian Church. There are bible studies after the service for anyone who is interested. Salt and Life Chapel also has many other activities such as Christmas/Easter dinners, outings with other ex-pats, and after service fellowship.
The Salvation Army - Seoul International Corps (Church) - Jung-gu - MOVED to Ansan (2017)
SaRang Community Church - Seocho-gu
SaRang is a non-denominational church offering services in Korean, English, Japanese and Chinese. Sunday English services: Adult 10AM, 1PM, 2PM / Youth 10AM / Children 12PM Japanese at 2;30PM and Chinese at 2PM.
Seoul Bible Church - Gwanak-gu
Expositional sermons in English. Sunday School at 10AM. Sunday Worship at 11AM. Services are translated into both English and Korean.
Seoul Grace Community Church - Seodaemun-gu (previously AMEN Seoul)
Seoul Grace Community church is an English speaking ministry that meets in Soedaemun at 4:30pm on Sundays in the Concert Hall of Ahyun Church. It is a gospel-centered, grace-focused ministry in the heart of Seoul serving the international community.
Seoul Union Church - Seodamun-gu
Worship with the English-speaking community: 9:30 AM Sunday school for all ages at 11AM. Seoul Union Church is an international, interdenominational, and independent self-governed church that provides contemporary and creative worship services, as well as Bible teachings.
Seoul Presbyterian Church - Gangnam-gu
English Sunday service at 11:20AM in Westminster Hall (Room 101).
Somang Presbyterian Church - Gangnam-gu
English-language worship service "Voice of Hope" at 2PM Sundays. English Sunday school from 12:45 PM to 1:45 PM at basement 3-1 of Missionary Hall. Preacher, Pastor Robert von Oeyen.
Yoido Full Gospel Church - Yeongdeungpo-gu
Senior Pastor: Dr. Yonggi Cho. Service with simultaneous interpretation in English at 9AM and 11AM at 2nd Education Building Room 901.
Youngnak Presbyterian Church - Jung-gu
International Worship in English Sundays 10AM (Service Building) 3PM (Mission Chapel) -- Pastor Bill Majors (church 2280-0228 / cell 011-613-5896).
21 Mission Seoul Sung Rak Church - Yeongdeungpo-gu
Services at 10AM, Noon, 2PM. (simualtaneous English or French translation) and at 6AM in Korean. Services are also offered in Japanese, Chinese, Spanish and Russian. International Chapel and Bible Study at 2PM Service in Chinese, Japanese or Vietnamese available upon request.
Last Updated on 2017-07-19 http://www.korea4expats.com/article-protestant-churches-seoul.html
But the thing is, those rooms are full of people just WAITING for someone to walk in and ask for help The sharing may or may nor blow you away. Meetings here are pretty awesome, so I may be biased Hey, look what I found!
The following churches offer religious services in English and, where specified, in other languages. The churches are listed in alphabetical order. Note that Protestant churches in the Yongsan area (Hannam-dong and Itaewon including HaeBangChon) are on a separate page (scroll to the bottom of this page to find it).
Because of the number of churches in the Yongsan-gu area, K4E has created a separate page for Protestant churches in Yongsan. Scroll below for the complete list of religious institutions on the site.
Anglican Cathedral - Jung-gu
Seoul Anglican Catheral is located across from Seoul City Hall beside Deoksu Palace. Address: 3 Jeong-dong, Jung-gu. Holy Communion in English every Sunday at 9.30 AM. with Sunday School for school age children. Contact the vicar at 02-739-0785 or [email protected]. The telephone will connect you to the Cathedral - please ask for the Vicar of the English Mission.
CityLight Seoul - Mapo-gu
CityLight Seoul holds its service at rolex replica the Yegee Arts Theatre (as of 7 May 2017). Address: Gosan-Gil 32, Mapo-gu, Seoul, Directions: Go out Exit 5 of Sinchon Station (Line 2, Stop 240). Take a right at the first alley. Walk up the street about 200m until the "T" intersection. Yegee Arts Center will be on your left. For more information, contact [email protected].
Christian Science Society
Special focus on Christian healing. Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy in 17 languages; also available, the Weekly Bible Lesson, The Christian Science Monitor Weekly; children's books & CDs; study groups in English or Korean. Sunday worship 11AM, Sunday School 11AM, Wednesday evening meetings 7:30 PM. Info: E-mail [email protected]. Tel English: 02-379-1334.
Chung-dong First Methodist Church - Jung-gu
Chung-dong First Methodist Church has been called the birthplace of Protestantism in Korea. Address: 46, Jeongdong-gil, Jung-gu. The church is Korean with an English ministry. Sundays: 10:00 AM (Contemporary Service) / 2:00 PM (Vibrant Traditional Service with Holy Communion) / Kid's Club starts at 12:50 PM.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Seodaemun-gu
English-language sessions at 10:30 AM on the 1st Saturday. Address: 500-23 Changcheon-dong, Seodaemun-gu. Tel: 02-334-9100.
Community of Christ - Seodaemun-gu
Sunday activities include Worship at 11:15 am. The service is in English and Korean. Lunch is served after the service. Following this is a time for fellowship.
Cornerstone International Ministry (previously Seong-Bok English Ministry) - Seongbuk-gu
English worship on Sundays at 10:30 AM. Located near Korea University station on subway line 6, stop 640. Walk straight from exit 3 for 250 meters until you pass Hyundai Oilbank. The building is Seongbok Presbyterian Church. Address: 28-1 Seongbuk-gu, Jongnam-dong. The English Ministry is located on the 1st floor of the main building in the Vision Chapel. For more information or pastoral care, please contact Moses at 010-9126-2714.
Covenant Church - Songpa-gu
A Reformed, English-speaking church in Seoul. Sunday English Service at 2:30 PM, with small groups following starting at 4:00. Covenant Church is a gospel-centered church affiliated with the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America) and is located at Shincheon Station (stop 217 on line 2). Address: 3rd Floor, 1-2 Samjeon Building, Samjeon-dong, Song-pa gu.
Full Gospel Gangnam Church- Gangnam gu
An evangelical and Charismatic based English speaking congregation meeting in the heart of Gangnam Sundays at 12pm on the fifth floor in the Jerusalem Chapel, Full Gospel Gangnam Church (Gangnam Sinbokum Gyohay) for a worship service in English, followed by lunch and bible study between 2:00pm-2:45pm and the language classes from 3 to 5P.M . Both the church service and the bible study are translated into Korean, but taught in English.
Jubilee Church - Gangnam-gu
This is an English speaking church with an English ministry not connected to any other church in Korea. Sunday Worship for Adults at 10:00 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. with Sunday Children's Ministry from 10:00-11:35 a.m. and Youth Ministry 10:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Wednesday servcice 8:00-9:30 p.m. Located near Sinsa Station at Sang Ah Bldg, 3 & 4 Floor, 527-1 Sinsa-dong, Gangnam-gu. Directions on church`s website. Info: 02-569-2293 or 02-569-2294 / [email protected].
Myungsung Church - Gangdong-gu
Inter-denominational format of praise and worship at 1:20PM. Sundays. Located in Myeongil-dong, near exit 4 of Myeongil Station on subway line 5, Stop 551. Address: 330-5 Myungil-dong, Gangdong-gu. Info: 02-440-9080 or 02-6930-9450~2. Email: [email protected].
New Philadelphia (Philly) Church - Gwanak-gu (and Itaewon)
This is the English congregation of Jeil Sungdo Presbyterian Church. Two locations in Seoul - one near SNU (Hillside) and the other in Itaewon. Sunday Service at 1:00 p.m. Address: 98-344 Shillim-2-dong, Annex Building 5th Floor, Gwanak-gu. Directions available in English on the church's website.
Ocean City Seoul - Mapo-gu
Sunday workshop: English and Korean Service: 11AM / English Only: 4:00–6:00PM.
Presbyterian Church of the Lord - English Ministry - Songpa-gu
Jamsil-based international worship, Bible study and fellowship events. Sunday worship at 11:30AM.
Redeemer Gangnam - Seocho-gu
Gospel centered church at 1327-33 Seochodong, Seocho gu, Worship 11AM / Bible Study 2:30 PM Sundays. Bible Study also Wednesdays and Thursdays at 7PM.
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) - Seodaemun-gu
Meets every Sunday at 11AM near the back gate of Ewha University (behind the University's Engineering School). Address: 2-87 Shinchon-dong, Seodaemun-gu.
Saemoonan English Ministry (SEM Presbyterian Church) - Jongno-gu
Presbyterian church with English service every Sundays from 11:30AM to 12:40PM in Room B137 of Midopa Gwanghwamoon Building (due to Church reconstruction) at 42 Sinmunno 1-ga, Jongno-gu.
Salt and Light Chapel - Dobong-gu
Salt and Light Chapael offers an English service in Dobong-gu, (the northern part of Seoul) starting at 2PM every Sunday afternoon on the 4th floor of Yum Kwang Presbyterian Church. There are bible studies after the service for anyone who is interested. Salt and Life Chapel also has many other activities such as Christmas/Easter dinners, outings with other ex-pats, and after service fellowship.
The Salvation Army - Seoul International Corps (Church) - Jung-gu - MOVED to Ansan (2017)
SaRang Community Church - Seocho-gu
SaRang is a non-denominational church offering services in Korean, English, Japanese and Chinese. Sunday English services: Adult 10AM, 1PM, 2PM / Youth 10AM / Children 12PM Japanese at 2;30PM and Chinese at 2PM.
Seoul Bible Church - Gwanak-gu
Expositional sermons in English. Sunday School at 10AM. Sunday Worship at 11AM. Services are translated into both English and Korean.
Seoul Grace Community Church - Seodaemun-gu (previously AMEN Seoul)
Seoul Grace Community church is an English speaking ministry that meets in Soedaemun at 4:30pm on Sundays in the Concert Hall of Ahyun Church. It is a gospel-centered, grace-focused ministry in the heart of Seoul serving the international community.
Seoul Union Church - Seodamun-gu
Worship with the English-speaking community: 9:30 AM Sunday school for all ages at 11AM. Seoul Union Church is an international, interdenominational, and independent self-governed church that provides contemporary and creative worship services, as well as Bible teachings.
Seoul Presbyterian Church - Gangnam-gu
English Sunday service at 11:20AM in Westminster Hall (Room 101).
Somang Presbyterian Church - Gangnam-gu
English-language worship service "Voice of Hope" at 2PM Sundays. English Sunday school from 12:45 PM to 1:45 PM at basement 3-1 of Missionary Hall. Preacher, Pastor Robert von Oeyen.
Yoido Full Gospel Church - Yeongdeungpo-gu
Senior Pastor: Dr. Yonggi Cho. Service with simultaneous interpretation in English at 9AM and 11AM at 2nd Education Building Room 901.
Youngnak Presbyterian Church - Jung-gu
International Worship in English Sundays 10AM (Service Building) 3PM (Mission Chapel) -- Pastor Bill Majors (church 2280-0228 / cell 011-613-5896).
21 Mission Seoul Sung Rak Church - Yeongdeungpo-gu
Services at 10AM, Noon, 2PM. (simualtaneous English or French translation) and at 6AM in Korean. Services are also offered in Japanese, Chinese, Spanish and Russian. International Chapel and Bible Study at 2PM Service in Chinese, Japanese or Vietnamese available upon request.
Last Updated on 2017-07-19 http://www.korea4expats.com/article-protestant-churches-seoul.html
right now I am getting my fill of sermons from online, and it's been ok so far. I miss my church from back home
thanks, those churches are very far from where I am, though right now I am getting my fill of sermons from online, and it's been ok so far. I miss my church from back home
right now I am getting my fill of sermons from online, and it's been ok so far. I miss my church from back home
I have been attending mostly for about ten or so years now Oh, if you are far from Seoul, maybe you could find something in your area? Online teachers can be really great, but nothing replaces fellowship with others, face to face. A young Korean couple just left our church after being here a year to move to Philly. They were such a sweet young couple, really pleasant, I very much enjoyed getting to know them and hanging out with them at Bible study; they will be sadly missed. We had a really fun going away party for them a couple of weeks ago. Don't be afraid to make new friends. Nationality should not make any difference, because human nature is the same no matter where you go. In AA and NA they say the rooms are full of friends you haven't met yet Also I wonder, have you ever heard Dr John Neufeld teach? He is from a church here in Burnaby and now the main expositor for the radio program Back to the Bible Canada, on kari55.com which you can listen to on your computer... or find his audio files online https://www.backtothebible.ca/messages/
Yeah, I would miss my home church if I was away from it too I have been attending mostly for about ten or so years now Oh, if you are far from Seoul, maybe you could find something in your area? Online teachers can be really great, but nothing replaces fellowship with others, face to face. A young Korean couple just left our church after being here a year to move to Philly. They were such a sweet young couple, really pleasant, I very much enjoyed getting to know them and hanging out with them at Bible study; they will be sadly missed. We had a really fun going away party for them a couple of weeks ago. Don't be afraid to make new friends. Nationality should not make any difference, because human nature is the same no matter where you go. In AA and NA they say the rooms are full of friends you haven't met yet Also I wonder, have you ever heard Dr John Neufeld teach? He is from a church here in Burnaby and now the main expositor for the radio program Back to the Bible Canada, on kari55.com which you can listen to on your computer... or find his audio files online https://www.backtothebible.ca/messages/
I have been attending mostly for about ten or so years now Oh, if you are far from Seoul, maybe you could find something in your area? Online teachers can be really great, but nothing replaces fellowship with others, face to face. A young Korean couple just left our church after being here a year to move to Philly. They were such a sweet young couple, really pleasant, I very much enjoyed getting to know them and hanging out with them at Bible study; they will be sadly missed. We had a really fun going away party for them a couple of weeks ago. Don't be afraid to make new friends. Nationality should not make any difference, because human nature is the same no matter where you go. In AA and NA they say the rooms are full of friends you haven't met yet Also I wonder, have you ever heard Dr John Neufeld teach? He is from a church here in Burnaby and now the main expositor for the radio program Back to the Bible Canada, on kari55.com which you can listen to on your computer... or find his audio files online https://www.backtothebible.ca/messages/
This is my opinion…. Drinking is a eating meat issue….
The Bible does not say one way or another if drinking is a sin. It doesn’t even say if getting drunk is a sin. Paul yelled at people for getting drunk at the Lord's Supper. Proverbs has a great discourse on drinking too much, Solomon describes the alcoholic perfectly. The Bible also says better to be filled with the Spirit than wine. But I know a lot of people when they drink they sin. Some fight, some cannot keep self-control and end up fighting (beating their family), need to have sex people…not with their spouse. And what I think should be a sin just belligerent and stupid.
If drinking causes people to sin because they cannot keep self-control, in my opinion, they should not drink.
In what you described in my opinion the sin was not the drinking but the not going to G-d about your day and not putting Him first and casting all your cares upon Him. You will still have the same stress tomorrow alcohol will not fix it, just give you a feeling of euphoria. And let’s face it euphoria always feels great in the moment. But if was a sin or not for you is between you and G-d.
The Bible does not say one way or another if drinking is a sin. It doesn’t even say if getting drunk is a sin. Paul yelled at people for getting drunk at the Lord's Supper. Proverbs has a great discourse on drinking too much, Solomon describes the alcoholic perfectly. The Bible also says better to be filled with the Spirit than wine. But I know a lot of people when they drink they sin. Some fight, some cannot keep self-control and end up fighting (beating their family), need to have sex people…not with their spouse. And what I think should be a sin just belligerent and stupid.
If drinking causes people to sin because they cannot keep self-control, in my opinion, they should not drink.
In what you described in my opinion the sin was not the drinking but the not going to G-d about your day and not putting Him first and casting all your cares upon Him. You will still have the same stress tomorrow alcohol will not fix it, just give you a feeling of euphoria. And let’s face it euphoria always feels great in the moment. But if was a sin or not for you is between you and G-d.
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Hello mcubed,
Here are a couple of scriptures to consider regarding drunkeness:
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
Here are a couple of scriptures to consider regarding drunkeness:
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
J
The tightness in your chest sounds familiarly like anxiety. I've had it most of my life, not due to stress, but a chemical imbalance. Rather than the Xanax, clonazapam, trazadone... etc that many doctors prescribed, I finally found one who treated the problem with out drugs. Magnesium, believe it or not, regulates the heart and I take mine in liquid form. It works like a charm... calms the racing heart, relieves the chest pain/tightness and helps with sleep.~
My husband's doctor recommended 1-2 glasses of red wine in the evening for his heart health and IBS... that was 12 years ago and his blood pressure is normal and no more IBS. So, wine can be used medicinally.
The abuse of any "mind altering" substance is the problem. Beer is fermented hops and grains and is used "medicinally" also. The issue isn't if it's a sin to drink it, it's whether or not you are justifying a "craving" for the "buzz". (non-judgmental here)
My husband's doctor recommended 1-2 glasses of red wine in the evening for his heart health and IBS... that was 12 years ago and his blood pressure is normal and no more IBS. So, wine can be used medicinally.
The abuse of any "mind altering" substance is the problem. Beer is fermented hops and grains and is used "medicinally" also. The issue isn't if it's a sin to drink it, it's whether or not you are justifying a "craving" for the "buzz". (non-judgmental here)