The “I Wills” of God

[JIMBO43]

I must admit that i stopped going to church for a long while. I actually led a very successful youth ministry.
I won't go into the details why I left other than to say my shoulders were very heavy and I was weary. I carried baggage of life and the past and the baggage of the need to conform.

I never lost my faith in Jesus, just in myself and people. And for 13-14 years I cried out and cried every day to Jesus.

When I started to come back Church I googled Gods grace, and I stumbled upon E2R and I must admit it really helped me.
I e-mailed Paul Ellis and this man spent months talking to me.
One thing that really helped me was actually understanding what grace is and how it works.

One thing that struck me was that grace actually covers my sin and I don't have to pay back for my sin or work it off.
I could never accept that when I sinned then it is covered by the blood of Jesus. I was a sack cloth and ashes man (and still working through that)

So to me my sin and foibles were bigger than Gods grace. This stemmed from the fact that I honestly felt that God did not love me. He only loved me because he has to because of what Jesus did.

Then one day when I was laid up with a back issue God asked me to spend some time with him. After the 3rd time of asking I said yes.

I read the following and as I read it I had a picture in my mind.
A gun suddenly appeared and the barrel was open and a silver bullet was inserted and the barrel closed and the trigger pulled.
Here what was inscribed on this bullet.


John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

That bullet was shot right into my heart. GOD LOVES JESUS AS MUCH AS HE LOVES ME.
I broke down in tears and then I got a glimpse of Gods grace.


One thing I know though and as Paul says Gods grace is not an excuse sin.


To me Gods grace forgives our sin and it's his grace that says "I love where you are and I love enough to bring you out of where you are"

To me God loves to conform us to the image of Jesus.

The reason I have gone a bit deep here is because people can walk in a way that seems to betray their confession and faith in Jesus. Then we can judge them as not being really saved.

During My restoration a lot of healing was needed, emotionally and spiritually.

So if a person doesn't seem to changing (and we must be very careful here as to what change we expect to see) we need to come alongside them in love and compassion, with gentleness and wisdom, revealing the true word of God as correction.

If a person identifies as a sinner what are they going to do?
To me the mindset is to sin because that's their identity.

Now if a persons identity is that as a child of the Father who loves them so much and is for them then focus changes.
I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU AND WALK IN THE WAY YOU HAVE ASKED ME.

When someone wants that then the amazing grace of God that saved them will work.

Now if a person has no interest in this then one must question whether they actually have saving faith.

How come you told me youve never been a pastor of any kind or had nothing to do with the church that way ?? im just a bit confused by your quotes ?

 

[BeyondET]

here we go again

who is giving anyone a free pass?

Someone was was falsely accused, which is sin, do we justify the sin because it happens to b against someone who teaches a bad doctrine, or do we judge the sinner.

something is serious wrong with that cat, likes to try and show his wisdom yet falls face first in his own slop, he says he is a pastor of what is highly debatable lol...

 

[Meggido]

something is serious wrong with that cat, likes to try and show his wisdom yet falls face first in his own slop, he says he is a pastor of what is highly debatable lol...

Stop making comments without thinking and that go agaisnt scripture and the cat will leave you alone...

 

[BeyondET]

You are not used to being spoken to this way, because most un-tucked shirt and skinny jean wearing, triple fade hairstyle having, legit suede boot stylin, uber cool talking "pastors" are afraid to speak to people the way I do to you...

its called truth in love, but it is a concept many in the body do not discern, because we are far too busy being uber cool, and to legit to quit, instead of being a shepherd and keeping people in the truth...

Come to full age....

I've been spoken to that way more times than I can count, you don't know me Hoss, it doesn't matter what you wear that shouldn't be a issue at all, why would think I have something against such things as what kind of clothes your wear, again it shows me how deluded your mind is.

 

[BeyondET]

Stop making comments without thinking and that go agaisnt scripture and the cat will leave you alone...

Can't stand the heat get out of kitchen grown man. duh, bye bye now I'm leaving have fun with your fancies.

 

[Meggido]

I've been spoken to that way more times than I can count, you don't know me Hoss, it doesn't matter what you wear that shouldn't be a issue at all, why would think I have something against such things as what kind of clothes your wear, again it shows me how deluded your mind is.

If you really understood why I said what I did it would make sense other than you topically suggesting I have a religious spirit....

 

[Meggido]

Can't stand the heat get out of kitchen grown man. duh, bye bye now I'm leaving have fun with your fancies.

buh-bye....

 

[Grace777x70]

You have anything to say about the op? How about the slander against grace777 by a certain member?

Or or is this all about Joseph price and hypergrace, neither of which are topics of the op?

Just let it go brother. The Lord has all of our backs and we all need each other. He will speak to each of us and give us what we need at the time. He will be faithful to all of us!

I love to say "He will be caught in the act of being Himself".

 

[BillG]

How come you told me youve never been a pastor of any kind or had nothing to do with the church that way ?? im just a bit confused by your quotes ?

I have never been a pastor.
I led the youth ministry but not as a pastor or paid role in the church.
I was doing that as a full time employee for a company having not long been married and having two young kids and studying for my accountancy exams as well.

It all took its toll on my and when I said to the elders I had to step down they took a long time to sort it out.
I then asked for help, spiritual input they said no because I wasn't giving out in church anymore.

Then they appointed someone to take over and within months the youth group folded.

I was blamed for that by parents and the elders.

That tipped me over the edge.

I hope that helps you understand a bit more.

 

[BeyondET]

If you really understood why I said what I did it would make sense other than you topically suggesting I have a religious spirit....

Ok uber roller coaster, we don't agree and we don't get along sad but it happens at times, good day man.

 

[Stephen63]

Just let it go brother. The Lord has all of our backs and we all need each other. He will speak to each of us and give us what we need at the time. He will be faithful to all of us!

I love to say "He will be caught in the act of being Himself".

Somebody will.....

 

[LoveGodForever]

wow thread has near doubled since I went to rest . Seems like a lot of confusion and discord here. Anyhow just one post that I promised to reply to before I went to sleep last night.

Maybe this will help. when God gave the law He made the people confirm every letter, and make a pledge that they woudl obey it completely to the letter, if they failed to do this, they would be under a curse, also knows as the curse of the law

Paul mentions this in Galatians, and said the law was given not to make us righteous, but to be a tutor to lead us to Christ. He also quoted the confirmation of the law which means anyone who sinned even once, is seen as condemned by said law James also shows this, when he says if we break even the least of the commands, we are guilty of the whole law So, Sinless perfection means we no longer sin, we have basically fulfilled the law, and are no longer in need of Christ, We have earned our right to be called children of God. Jesus told us how to do righteous things, by following two commands, do this, and we wil not break the law. the problem is we can not love perfectly, So we will still sin. God saved us knowing the sins we would commit in the future, We do not fool God, But at the same time, A person who is saved can not live as he did before, He will change, The bible speaks of differing levels of maturity, We have babes in christ, who still struggled with sin mightily (the corinthian church struggled with sexual sin) then we have mature believers, who even at this stage of maturity need to continue to run the race, because even they have not made the perfect sinless state yet.

We will not be sinless until we are glorified.

Hi ET,

Thanks for your post and the time you put into it. Well firstly I do not believe in sinless perfection the way you interpret it. However I do believe that Sanctification is a work of a lifetime in the believer of God's Word and we will not be sinless until we are glorified (with Jesus; 1John 3:2) because we have a sinful nature (Isa 64:6; Isa 55: 8-9; Jer 17:9) that Jesus is saving us from moment by moment.

I do believe there are two forms of sin the Word of God. These are (1) wilful known sin (the ones that God has convicted us of and we know about; Heb 10:26) and (2) Unknown sins (the ones that we do not know about; Acts 17:30; James 4:17). I believe we are only held accountable to God for the sins that we know about revealed to us in God’s Word.

As we grow in grace however I believe God puts us in situations where he reveals more of our sinful nature to us so that we are led to depend more and more on Him by faith in His Word to save us from our sins and less and less on ourselves (James 1:2-4; John 3:30; 2Pet 1:4). This is a continual process, the work of a lifetime day by day walking with Jesus through faith in His Word. It is only through God's Law that we have any knowledge of Sin and God’s Spirit convicts us of sin as God reveals it to us. (Rom 7:7; 1John 3:4; John 16:7-8).

God’s Law (10 commandments) show us what Sin is (1John 3:4) and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is one of them (Ex 20:8-11). We break one of God’s commandments we are guilty of breaking all All because we are condemned by it as sinners in need of a Savior (James 2:10-12; Gal 3:24) and if we are not found in Christ on the day of God’s Judgement washed from our sins we will be accountable to God for the sins we hang on to.

So the question remains. Who do we follow, the Word of God, or the teachings and traditions of man? It is only by faith in God’s Word through love that we can follow Jesus and this is why Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15).

God bless.

 

[Meggido]

wow thread has near doubled since I went to rest . Seems like a lot of confusion and discord here. Anyhow just one post that I promised to reply to before I went to sleep last night.



Hi ET,

Thanks for your post and the time you put into it. Well firstly I do not believe in sinless perfection the way you interpret it. However I do believe that Sanctification is a work of a lifetime in the believer of God's Word and we will not be sinless until we are glorified (with Jesus; 1John 3:2) because we have a sinful nature (Isa 64:6; Isa 55: 8-9; Jer 17:9) that Jesus is saving us from moment by moment.

I do believe there are two forms of sin the Word of God. These are (1) wilful known sin (the ones that God has convicted us of and we know about; Heb 10:26) and (2) Unknown sins (the ones that we do not know about; Acts 17:30; James 4:17). I believe we are only held accountable to God for the sins that we know about revealed to us in God’s Word.

As we grow in grace however I believe God puts us in situations where he reveals more of our sinful nature to us so that we are led to depend more and more on Him by faith in His Word to save us from our sins and less and less on ourselves (James 1:2-4; John 3:30; 2Pet 1:4). This is a continual process, the work of a lifetime day by day walking with Jesus through faith in His Word. It is only through God's Law that we have any knowledge of Sin and God’s Spirit convicts us of sin as God reveals it to us. (Rom 7:7; 1John 3:4; John 16:7-8).

God’s Law (10 commandments) show us what Sin is (1John 3:4) and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is one of them (Ex 20:8-11). We break one of God’s commandments we are guilty of breaking all All because we are condemned by it as sinners in need of a Savior (James 2:10-12; Gal 3:24) and if we are not found in Christ on the day of God’s Judgement washed from our sins we will be accountable to God for the sins we hang on to.

So the question remains. Who do we follow, the Word of God, or the teachings and traditions of man? It is only by faith in God’s Word through love that we can follow Jesus and this is why Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15).

God bless.

Gods 10 commandments do not such thing bro...

The 1st 5 show us how we relate to God and the 2nd 5 show us how to relate to each other...

Since you love the law and you just said if you break one you bust them all let me ask you this....

The 10 were part of 613....correct?

Do make women in yours household camp out of the house in the back yard for 7 days during their menstrual cycles?

DO not tell us that there is no need to obey this commandment because it does not apply...you said yourself, if you break one, you bust them all.....


For the record John 14.15 is properly rendered this way:


[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


Those are Love God, love others and Love yourself....

Romans 13.8-10 says

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Meggido,

Comments in RED

Gods 10 commandments do not such thing bro...

What do you mean the 10 commandments do no such thing?

The 1st 5 show us how we relate to God and the 2nd 5 show us how to relate to each other...

Your close. It is the 1st 4 commandments that are our duty to God (Ex 20:1-11) the next 6 are our duty towards our neighbor (Ex 20 12:17)


Since you love the law and you just said if you break one you bust them all let me ask you this....
The 10 were part of 613....correct? Do make women in yours household camp out of the house in the back yard for 7 days during their menstrual cycles? DO not tell us that there is no need to obey this commandment because it does not apply...you said yourself, if you break one, you bust them all.....

No the 10 commandments (God's Law) is not part of the 613. I am not sure if that question makes much sense. Its like saying how many Laws are in the 10 commandments? God's Law is the 10 commandments which were the Work of God, written by God with His own finger on two tables of stone and placed in the Ark of the Covenant hence God's Law. The laws of Moses written by Moses in a book included the civil Laws of Israel as well as all the ceremonial and Levitical laws in relation to the Sanctuary, burnt offerings for sin, feast days, new moons, holy days and health laws many of which were nailed to the cross (Col 2:14) If you want more info here please see the linked posts here;

God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)

God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)

For the record John 14.15 is properly rendered this way:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. Those are Love God, love others and Love yourself....

Romans 13.8-10 says

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Absolutley; Love that scripture. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit (Rom 8:1-4 and the rest of the chapter). Its part of the New Covenant promise of God's Law being written in our heart so that through love we can follow him (Heb 8:10-12) and why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments" (John 14:15)

Hope this helps

 

[beta]

Gods 10 commandments do not such thing bro...

The 1st 5 show us how we relate to God and the 2nd 5 show us how to relate to each other...

Since you love the law and you just said if you break one you bust them all let me ask you this....

The 10 were part of 613....correct?

Do make women in yours household camp out of the house in the back yard for 7 days during their menstrual cycles?

DO not tell us that there is no need to obey this commandment because it does not apply...you said yourself, if you break one, you bust them all.....


For the record John 14.15 is properly rendered this way:


[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


Those are Love God, love others and Love yourself....

Romans 13.8-10 says

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Where did God WRITE 613 laws/commandments on STONE---or
When did God SPEAK 613 commandments PERSONALLY to the assembled PEOPLE ?

HE did NEITHER ! Ex 20v1; Deut 5v22. God only wrote and spoke 10 and that makes them SEPARATE from the temporal ordinances and works given through Moses.
GOD's law of Love/Commandments are spiritual, eternal, holy, just and good ! They are not to be broken but kept intact as One !
We are to 'put difference between holy and unholy Lev10v10.

 

[graceNpeace]

All these lies about who did what with respect to the law!
ALL OF IT was given by God to Moses.
This fiction, and it is a fiction, of the "law of God" and the "law of Moses" needs to stop!
The law was never split up in the way suggested.
Most emphatically the phrases "law of God" and "law of Moses" are used interchangeably to refer to the ten commandments and the whole law.

Either Jesus Christ fulfilled the whole law (including the ten commandments) or He did not!
There is no such thing as bits still binding and other bits fulfilled!

Under the New Covenant no believer is bound under any part of the covenant God made with Moses (and that includes the ten commandments)!

 

[Grace777x70]

All these lies about who did what with respect to the law!
ALL OF IT was given by God to Moses.
This fiction, and it is a fiction, of the "law of God" and the "law of Moses" needs to stop!
The law was never split up in the way suggested.
Most emphatically the phrases "law of God" and "law of Moses" are used interchangeably to refer to the ten commandments and the whole law.

Either Jesus Christ fulfilled the whole law (including the ten commandments) or He did not!
There is no such thing as bits still binding and other bits fulfilled!

Under the New Covenant no believer is bound under any part of the covenant God made with Moses (and that includes the ten commandments)!

Amen...we know the real purpose for trying to separate them out from the rest of the law and we are falling for this nonsense.

The 10 commandments are part of the law. Paul said that they are as can be seen in Romans. 7:7. Coveting is one of the 10 commandments unless it got kicked out for "coveting".

Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Here it is in the "10 commandments" given to Moses as part of the Law.

Exodus 20:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

wow thread has near doubled since I went to rest . Seems like a lot of confusion and discord here. Anyhow just one post that I promised to reply to before I went to sleep last night.



Hi ET,

Thanks for your post and the time you put into it. Well firstly I do not believe in sinless perfection the way you interpret it. However I do believe that Sanctification is a work of a lifetime in the believer of God's Word and we will not be sinless until we are glorified (with Jesus; 1John 3:2) because we have a sinful nature (Isa 64:6; Isa 55: 8-9; Jer 17:9) that Jesus is saving us from moment by moment.

I do believe there are two forms of sin the Word of God. These are (1) wilful known sin (the ones that God has convicted us of and we know about; Heb 10:26) and (2) Unknown sins (the ones that we do not know about; Acts 17:30; James 4:17). I believe we are only held accountable to God for the sins that we know about revealed to us in God’s Word.

As we grow in grace however I believe God puts us in situations where he reveals more of our sinful nature to us so that we are led to depend more and more on Him by faith in His Word to save us from our sins and less and less on ourselves (James 1:2-4; John 3:30; 2Pet 1:4). This is a continual process, the work of a lifetime day by day walking with Jesus through faith in His Word. It is only through God's Law that we have any knowledge of Sin and God’s Spirit convicts us of sin as God reveals it to us. (Rom 7:7; 1John 3:4; John 16:7-8).

God’s Law (10 commandments) show us what Sin is (1John 3:4) and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is one of them (Ex 20:8-11). We break one of God’s commandments we are guilty of breaking all All because we are condemned by it as sinners in need of a Savior (James 2:10-12; Gal 3:24) and if we are not found in Christ on the day of God’s Judgement washed from our sins we will be accountable to God for the sins we hang on to.

So the question remains. Who do we follow, the Word of God, or the teachings and traditions of man? It is only by faith in God’s Word through love that we can follow Jesus and this is why Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15).

God bless.

I will try to respond, Short but hopefully understandable

1. I believe we are held accountable for all sin, Known and unknown, SIn is sin, and God can not partake or be near it, He does not care of we know about it or not. We were dead at birth based on adam, so our spiritual death occured before we committed one sin. I try not to excuse sin, it gets us into a bad habit.

2. You seem to have a hangup on the sabbath, Is there a reason for this?

3. I agree, We are in the process of being sanctified, Some of us are babies, many of us are hopefully adults. but we will always be in a means of growth.

 

[Meggido]

Hi Meggido,

Comments in RED



Hope this helps

No the 10 commandments (God's Law) is not part of the 613. I am not sure if that question makes much sense. Its like saying how many Laws are in the 10 commandments? God's Law is the 10 commandments which were the Work of God, written by God with His own finger on two tables of stone and placed in the Ark of the Covenant hence God's Law. The laws of Moses written by Moses in a book included the civil Laws of Israel as well as all the ceremonial and Levitical laws in relation to the Sanctuary, burnt offerings for sin, feast days, new moons, holy days and health laws many of which were nailed to the cross (Col 2:14) If you want more info here please see the linked posts here;

God verbally gave the 10 commandments and the other laws were written on stone.....seems that you are so entangled into the law, you really have no idea about them, but sure like to push them on people....

Exodus 20New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Ten Commandments

20 Then God spoke all these words, saying


The fact you do not know that God spoke the 10 commandments and the fact you cannot comprehend they are part of the 613 laws and that fact you never answered my question, make it seem you are not at all qualified to be teaching anyone...let alone those of us that we are under grace and not the law....

 

[Meggido]

Where did God WRITE 613 laws/commandments on STONE---or
When did God SPEAK 613 commandments PERSONALLY to the assembled PEOPLE ?

HE did NEITHER ! Ex 20v1; Deut 5v22. God only wrote and spoke 10 and that makes them SEPARATE from the temporal ordinances and works given through Moses.
GOD's law of Love/Commandments are spiritual, eternal, holy, just and good ! They are not to be broken but kept intact as One !
We are to 'put difference between holy and unholy Lev10v10.

God only spoke the 10 commandments the tablets of the testimony was the Law of Moses...seems you lawyers need to go back to Law school and stop watching Charley Heston breaking tablets, before trying to condemn us heathens

Do you teach younger women to camp outside for 7 days when they start their menstrual cycles? and did you do this as well?

If not....there is no covenant in you and you are guilty as charged...