heaven in the bible

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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#21
prove-all great posts i agree mon. we are to live on earth!!!!!!!!!!!
That's not mans ultimate destiny:

Heb 11:15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.

Heb 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,649
13,124
113
#22
No, the Bible does not say that. Here is what it says: And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

You will notice that "to earth" is absent. What it means is that the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven but simply hovers over the earth. Since it is the size of a continent and it is also a cube of the same continental dimensions, it has no place on earth. Rather, it performs the function of the sun in that it gives light to the earth.
you'll notice also the context:

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
(Revelation 21:9-10)

the angel is showing something to John in the Spirit. the angel first identifies to John what it is he will see, and then it is shown to him. the angel is showing him "
the bride, the wife of the Lamb" and what he sees is this city.

the city is the bride of Christ. the bride is not a physical building, it is living & spiritual ((1 Peter 2:5, 1 Corinthians 3:16 for example)) & it is the dwelling place of God ((verse 3)). it is Christ's sheep, it is Christ's church: it is us - we are His betrothed, and we are the city of God, as He is making us to be. the text tells us when it is describing a vision - something John sees - that is seen in Spirit, and it tells us what that vision is about.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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#23
present or absent with the Lord ?

and earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon] with our house which is [from] heaven:
-

2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved,
we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

-Paul uses the tabernacle to represent our earthly house/body which will be
dissolved/mortal. but we have a building form God a house not made with hands,
eternal/immortal, in the heavens.

why is Paul saying this? The context from the prior chapter will help:

2Co 4:16 Wherefore we faint not; but though our outward man is decaying,
yet our inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is for
the moment, worketh for us more and more exceedingly an eternal weight of glory;

-while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Our outward man/tabernacle/body is decaying it is mortal but we have faith
in the things that are eternal. What is this in relation to? when will this be?

2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus
shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

-So Paul faints not because of the Grace God gives and the promise that
this corrupt outward mortal man will be raised to eternal life just as Jesus was.

So again Paul says:

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be [clothed upon] with our house
which is [from] heaven: 2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

-We want that clothing that is from heaven. what clothing?

2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that
we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

-mortality might put on life or immortality in other words.

Remember Paul has already connected the Resurrection with this in chapter 4.
but lets make it clear before we go on in the chapter:

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;
it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be
changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet
shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and
this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying
that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

-This all takes place at the last trump at the coming of Christ. when our
mortal bodies are clothed in immortality changed in the twinkling of an eye.

What does Paul mean we shall not all sleep and the last trump?

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them
which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

-So the last Trump is at the second coming of Jesus, and we shall not all sleep
but some will still be alive and remain. Those who sleep are resurrected at this time.

So lets go back to the texts in question:

2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are
at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)

-So through the earnestness of the Spirit they walk by faith not by sight,
in this earthly body and are absent from the Lord. because they are here
on earth and the judgment has not yet come. but:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.

-They are willing or want to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
Contextually we have seen this happens at the resurrection not instantly.

Paul does not say or even infer that this is instantaneous at all. He simply says
he would like to be out of this mortal body and to be present with the Lord.
He does not even say that one equals the other but rather he wants to with the Lord.


Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Notice that he says, "present or absent" we may be accepted of him.
If being absent means He is already with the Lord then
how is it that the absent still hopes to be accepted of him?

Paul is simply saying that they labour in life by faith in this mortal body.
and the works that they do will follow them even in death/absent.

As it is written:

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the
Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to
that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die,
but after this the judgment:

copied from a friend: blessings.
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,905
113
#24
The new earth will be the new Jerusalem
You will not find any Scripture to support this. Quite the opposite. I trust you will take some time to study this matter properly.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,905
113
#25
That's not mans ultimate destiny:

Heb 11:15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.

Heb 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
Absolutely correct. It is amazing to see how many people today have such a serious misunderstanding of such an important matter. So let's ask and answer some questions?

1. Is God's throne in Heaven? Yes
2. Are all the holy angels in Heaven? Yes
3. Is Christ's throne in Heaven? Yes
4. Is Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven? Yes
5. Are all the Old Testament saints in Heaven? Yes (called "the spirits of just men made perfect" in Hebrews 12:23)
6. Are all the New Testament saints in Heaven? Yes (called "the general assembly and church of the firstborn" in Hebrews 12:23)
7. Did Jesus call Heaven "my Father's house"? Yes (John 14:1-3)
8. Did Jesus promise His people mansions in Heaven? Yes (John 14:1-3)
9. Did Jesus promise to come back for His people and take them to Heaven ? Yes (John 14:1-3)
10. Do the saints go to Heaven immediately after they die? Yes (Acts 7 & 8).
 

Zen

Senior Member
Sep 11, 2015
752
16
18
#26
Absolutely correct. It is amazing to see how many people today have such a serious misunderstanding of such an important matter. So let's ask and answer some questions?

1. Is God's throne in Heaven? Yes
2. Are all the holy angels in Heaven? Yes
3. Is Christ's throne in Heaven? Yes
4. Is Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven? Yes
5. Are all the Old Testament saints in Heaven? Yes (called "the spirits of just men made perfect" in Hebrews 12:23)
6. Are all the New Testament saints in Heaven? Yes (called "the general assembly and church of the firstborn" in Hebrews 12:23)
7. Did Jesus call Heaven "my Father's house"? Yes (John 14:1-3)
8. Did Jesus promise His people mansions in Heaven? Yes (John 14:1-3)
9. Did Jesus promise to come back for His people and take them to Heaven ? Yes (John 14:1-3)
10. Do the saints go to Heaven immediately after they die? Yes (Acts 7 & 8).
11. Have murderers been allowed in God's heaven before the throne of God? Yes