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Thread: The Trinity Discussion

  1. #41
    Junior Member MarkHasFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    Your interpretation of these texts is wrong.

    As human beings and believers in Christ we are NOT part of the Godhead.
    We may be part of the Kingdom of God of which Jesus Christ is the head but that does NOT make us divine!

    The Trinity is a doctrine about the nature of the divinity of God.
    Human beings are never a part of that.

    The fact that you do believe that humans are part of the Godhead unmasks a severe problem with your theology...



    I'm just telling you what it says. It states clearly that in Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead and that we are complete in him.
    So how could we not be part of it, if we are indeed in Christ? So you believe that you are a human being, a natural person?
    According to the word we are born again from the spirit and are no longer in the flesh. Romans 8:9- But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...
    I agree with you that humans beings are not part of God's divine nature, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom it says in 1Corinthians 15:50. But any born again person who is in Christ, is one Spirit in him and is indeed part of that divine nature. Just as 2Peter 1:4 states that he has given us great promises so that by them we are partakers of the divine nature.

  2. #42
    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    it makes no difference what i say or believe, what does the scripture say. where does it say that a believer must believe the Son is the Most High to obtain salvation?
    This question is illogic.

    Same like "where does the Scripture say I must believe Jesus is not angel to obtain salvation" etc.

    You should ask "what does Scripture say about Jesus and about salvation?"
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    i cant make sense of what you are trying to ask.
    Alright I will try a different tack:

    If God is the God Most High, then, what does that make Jesus Christ?

  4. #44
    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    Alright I will try a different tack:

    If God is the God Most High, then, what does that make Jesus Christ?
    IMO the Son.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkHasFaith View Post
    I'm just telling you what it says. It states clearly that in Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead and that we are complete in him.
    So how could we not be part of it, if we are indeed in Christ? So you believe that you are a human being, a natural person?
    According to the word we are born again from the spirit and are no longer in the flesh. Romans 8:9- But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...
    I agree with you that humans beings are not part of God's divine nature, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom it says in 1Corinthians 15:50. But any born again person who is in Christ, is one Spirit in him and is indeed part of that divine nature. Just as 2Peter 1:4 states that he has given us great promises so that by them we are partakers of the divine nature.
    Then you are saying that we are God!
    And clearly that is NOT true!

    So, I think you need to take another look at how you are interpreting Scripture...

  6. #46
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    Alright I will try a different tack:

    If God is the God Most High, then, what does that make Jesus Christ?
    If the father is greater than Jesus and Jesus was the father, then is the father greater than himself. What of the spirit, is it lesser than the both of them?

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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    IMO the Son.
    That makes no sense by itself.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    This question is illogic.

    Same like "where does the Scripture say I must believe Jesus is not angel to obtain salvation" etc.

    You should ask "what does Scripture say about Jesus and about salvation?"
    30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    and this passage is not good enough? "life in his name" IMO would mean salvation. why add to it?

  9. #49
    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    That makes no sense by itself.
    Jesus was not the Son?

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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    Jesus was not the Son?
    So, was He sired by God, like you were, or, is something else implied by that title?

  11. #51
    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

    and this passage is not good enough? "life in his name" IMO would mean salvation. why add to it?
    Because Bible has more verses?

    Like

    "No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known."
    John 1:18

    Why to remove it from the Bible?
    Last edited by trofimus; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:23 AM.
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  12. #52
    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by graceNpeace View Post
    So, was He sired by God, like you were, or, is something else implied by that title?
    the Father calls Him Son, the Apostles call Him the Son, the Son calls Himself Son. there could be many things implied but IMO it does not give man the right to add doctrine to scripture.

  13. #53
    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    jaybird88:

    If I understand you right, you want to believe wrongly about Jesus and still be saved?

    Like to deny many verses about Him and demanding us to bring verses saying you will not be saved in such a faith?

    I do not get this logic...
    Let the brotherly love stay * Láska bratrská ať zůstává

  14. #54
    Senior Member jaybird88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    jaybird88:

    If I understand you right, you want to believe wrongly about Jesus and still be saved?

    Like to deny many verses about Him and demanding us to bring verses saying you will not be saved in such a faith?

    I do not get this logic...
    so its wrong to believe John 20:31? is this a false statement?

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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    the Father calls Him Son, the Apostles call Him the Son, the Son calls Himself Son. there could be many things implied but IMO it does not give man the right to add doctrine to scripture.
    The point is: In what way is Jesus the Son of God?
    Is it because He is divine (just like the Father), or something else?
    If He is the Son was there a time when He did NOT exist?

    These questions are central to Christianity!
    If Jesus Christ is NOT eternal, and NOT of the same essence, and therefore divinity, as the Father (and the Holy Spirit for that matter) then He cannot be our Saviour and His death was in vain - and our faith is hopeless!

    But, actually the answers are all in Scripture and Scripture affirms that Jesus Christ is eternal, in as much God as the Father and the Holy Spirit are, that He took on a human form and allowed Himself to be humiliated, obedient even unto a death on the cross, where He died a substitute for our sins!

  16. #56
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    so its wrong to believe John 20:31? is this a false statement?
    There is nothing wrong with the verse!
    The only question is your interpretation of who the Son of God is?
    preacher4truth likes this.

  17. #57
    Senior Member notbythesword's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Jesus claimed to have come “from” God. If Jesus was God (rather than the Son or Holy One of God), then this would certainly mean that God sent Himself into this world. Jesus plainly tells us that He did not send Himself, rather, it was God who sent Him. He professes a distinction between Himself and God by saying this in John 8:42.

    Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, because I came from God and I am here. For I didn’t come on My own, but He sent Me.” (John 8:42)
    prove-all and jaybird88 like this.

  18. #58
    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird88 View Post
    so its wrong to believe John 20:31? is this a false statement?
    Its wrong to deny other verses.
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  19. #59
    Senior Member trofimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by notbythesword View Post
    Jesus claimed to have come “from” God. If Jesus was God (rather than the Son or Holy One of God), then this would certainly mean that God sent Himself into this world. Jesus plainly tells us that He did not send Himself, rather, it was God who sent Him. He professes a distinction between Himself and God by saying this in John 8:42.

    Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, because I came from God and I am here. For I didn’t come on My own, but He sent Me.” (John 8:42)
    Again, why do you ignore other verses saying He is God?
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  20. #60
    Senior Member Zmouth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Trinity Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
    In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
    He was in the world, and though [B]the world was made through him.
    The Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
    We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
    "

    John 1
    Exactly, the audible voice of the Holy Ghost became the written word.


    That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 1 John 1:1



    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God."
    John 1:14

    ----

    Do I need to say more?
    Exactly, that which is born of the flesh is flesh. And it had been written that the LORD would raise up from amongst the breathen a Prophet liken unto you, but the LORD would put his words in that Prophet's mouth.




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