The Trinity Discussion

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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#81
So you read John 1:1 and then immediately go to other books for your "interpretation" of its meaning instead of just reading on in the same book!
Wow!
That explains the confusion then...
Read John 8:44
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#83
How exactly do you go by this Scripture?

"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
where does it say that a believer must believe the Son is the Most High to obtain salvation?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#84
LOL...

In other words no intention to engage with the actual issue, then.
Want to cite principles, let's start with the cell fusion. You have the LORD breeding with humans when the male and female procreate the flesh and the LORD (Spirit and Word) procreate the soul.

Or the scripture that no man hath ascended up to heaven except the him who came down from heaven.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son;
Luke 3:22

".. for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
Matt 1:20
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
305
5
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#85
Show me in Scripture that Jesus is "divine".

All Bibles I know say that Jesus is God.
John 1:1 would be an excellent example. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was “with” THE Theon, and Theos was the word.

Notice how the word was not the Theon? Rather, it was with the Theon. John made sure to show a distinction in saying that the word was not the Theon, but rather a separate Theos, who was with the Theon but not actually being the Theon.

In many English translations, you get the impression that the word and the God (the Theon) are one and the same. This is simply not the case when examining it in the Greek. A more appropriate translation would render it “and the word was divine”.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,923
8,654
113
#86
There seems to be a misunderstanding that Jesus is fully God AND fully man.
Exactly how the Most High God was able to pour Himself into a human being I don't know.

The confusion lies in the passages where the fully human aspect of Jesus refers to His Father, and His God.
The Pharisees CERTAINLY understood His claim to be God. "Before Abraham was I AM". This was why they immediately, in a rage, tried to hill Him, BECAUSE He claimed to be God.

Many cults fall on the stumbling block of not confessing Jesus as God. Either He is, or He isn't.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#87
where does it say that a believer must believe the Son is the Most High to obtain salvation?
OK. Nowhere it says exactly this sentence.

Now what? You will continue with your error, happy that you may be able to get saved?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#88
Show me in Scripture that Jesus is "divine".

All Bibles I know say that Jesus is God.
Trofimus, the word "divine" primarily means to have the properties and nature of God.
Just that you know....
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#89
John 1:1 would be an excellent example. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was “with” THE Theon, and Theos was the word.

Notice how the word was not the Theon? Rather, it was with the Theon. John made sure to show a distinction in saying that the word was not the Theon, but rather a separate Theos, who was with the Theon but not actually being the Theon.

In many English translations, you get the impression that the word and the God (the Theon) are one and the same. This is simply not the case when examining it in the Greek. A more appropriate translation would render it “and the word was divine”.

This is a really silly post.

There is inflectoin in Greek and many other languages including my own.

Theon is Theos, its the same word, just used with different inflection - "pros ton Theon" - with/by God.
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
305
5
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#91
This is a really silly post.

There is inflectoin in Greek and many other languages including my own.

Theon is Theos, its the same word, just used with different inflection - "pros ton Theon" - with/by God.
Theos lacks the definite article preceding it. Theos is not shown to be “THE” Theon. Do you dispute this?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#92
There seems to be a misunderstanding that Jesus is fully God AND fully man.
Exactly how the Most High God was able to pour Himself into a human being I don't know.

The confusion lies in the passages where the fully human aspect of Jesus refers to His Father, and His God.
The Pharisees CERTAINLY understood His claim to be God. "Before Abraham was I AM". This was why they immediately, in a rage, tried to hill Him, BECAUSE He claimed to be God.

Many cults fall on the stumbling block of not confessing Jesus as God. Either He is, or He isn't.

Deut 18:19
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 5:43
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 8:49
9 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

God is a Spirit, the Word is a Spirit. I AM that I AM. "And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:" Ex 6:2

And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me. Col 4:11
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#94
Theos lacks the definite article preceding it. Theos is not shown to be “THE” Theon. Do you dispute this?
No. Why should I?

Son was with Father. Theos pros ton theon. Both means God.
 
S

savedtoast

Guest
#96
I think Jesus would be proud of us all today for tackling his divine sovereignty, whoops there dies another hungry child.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#97
I think Jesus would be proud of us all today for tackling his divine sovereignty, whoops there dies another hungry child.
Nice, but being in error about God will not save any hungry child.
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
305
5
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#98
No. Why should I?

Son was with Father. Theos pros ton theon. Both means God.
Glad to see that you’ll admit that Theos was not the Theon (the God). So tell me, does Theon and Theos have a different meaning if they do or don’t have a definite article in front of them?