The Trinity Discussion

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Dagallen

Guest
Is your son you?

if that were the truth, Adam would have brought forth all his sons in the exact same likeness of Adam's own Father
No my son is not me and never will be.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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So in a around about way, what you are really saying, the Father was, as in the OT but in the NT the Father became the Son ?
How can you always come to such absurd and wrong conclusions? No, he is not saying this.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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No my son is not me and never will be.
But that was supposed to be the initial design
We were created in God's image)

And the first Adam was supposed to bring forth sons in his likeness...but never could because none of us are exactly the same

But being Created in GODS IMAGE went deeper than the flesh
it wasn't about flesh but about representing God's holiness

Was Adam in the likeness of his own father?
 
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Dagallen

Guest
No, Son is not Father and your son is not you.

Your son is human and you are human.

Son is God and Father is God.

The only difference is that our natural laws make you to be two separate beings while in the light where God dwells they are just one complex being, one true God. Something similar to us being one humanity organism, the unity of Father and Son is so much tighter than between us, so they are one God.
So in the spiritual world, the Father is God and the Son is God and that's why the Son said the Father and i are one ? Is that what you are saying ?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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And in the same way Father is not the Son. They are two different persons.
Yet, all men born into the world are sons
and everyone who sees men in the world know that where there is a son there is also a father

its just that of this SON, not all believed when He testifies of HIS FATHER
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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So in the spiritual world, the Father is God and the Son is God and that's why the Son said the Father and i are one ? Is that what you are saying ?
God is Spirit

Christ came to "show us THE FATHER"
he who sees The Son (who is the visible image of the invisible GOD made manifest) has seen THE FATHER
 
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Dagallen

Guest
And in the same way Father is not the Son. They are two different persons.
If they are two different persons ? If they are different as you claim, then they are not one ?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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So in the spiritual world, the Father is God and the Son is God and that's why the Son said the Father and i are one ? Is that what you are saying ?
In the spiritual world, I'm sure that we will not see a lamb before the throne looking slain but lives as depicted in revelation 5

ywt did now, Christ must reign because no man can come to the Father except through The Son
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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If they are two different persons ? If they are different as you claim, then they are not one ?
How can what is not visible (a spirit) be made visible
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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In the spiritual world, I'm sure that we will not see a lamb before the throne looking slain but lives as depicted in revelation 5

ywt did now, Christ must reign because no man can come to the Father except through The Son
I would like to correct the above:

yet for now,
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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So in the spiritual world, the Father is God and the Son is God and that's why the Son said the Father and i are one ? Is that what you are saying ?
Yes, in one God there are three persons. Thats what "Trinity" means.

How is that possible is not for us to solve, because we do not know how it "works" in higher dimensions, in the light where God abides. In our world, one person = one being, in higher worlds not so.

In 2D, one square = one object.
In 3D, not so, 6 squares can be one object

We must still have in mind that we are very low and God is very high.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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If they are two different persons ? If they are different as you claim, then they are not one ?
Lets try geometry. One cube has 6 sides, 6 squares.

So... do you have problem with this too? Or do you accept it? God and 3 persons are very similar issue.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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My son came from me, we are of the same nature but my son is not me. The Son of God came from God, they are of the same nature but the Son is not God, just as my son is not me. I gave my son my name, I gave my son a message to speak to all, my son went in my name, my son spoke what I commanded him to speak, does that make my son, me ?
Finally dagallen you said something that is correct but then you messed it all up, what do I mean? This statement of yours is absolutely true, "My son came from me, we are of the same nature but my son is not me." Then you said this which is true, " The Son of God came from God, they are of the same nature" Absolutely true!

Now here is where you messed up with the following six words, "but my son is not me." That's exactly right, you son is not you BECAUSE YOU ARE A DISTINCT PERSON FROM YOUR SON." This is what some of us have been trying to explain to you when we say that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are "DISTINCT" persons from each other. What makes them the one God is their nature.

What makes you distinct from all other humans including your son is your personhood, and what you have in common with all humans is your nature. There is only one nature of humans and it is your nature that separates us from all that is not human. It is God's nature that separates Him from all that is not God.

Look at it this way? You keep saying God the Father is the only true God and that's fine but (and think about this real hard). If "the Father" alone is God, there would be no need TO DISTINGUISH HIM as "the Father" and we would ONLY see the same continued metaphorical applications OF THAT TERM." But you don't because the Bible is clear that there are three persons all identified as "God."

In other words, the persons of the Trinity are constantly so distinguished in the New Testament so why bother making a distinction if there is no distinction to be made? In short, If the Father alone is "God" than the New Testament is a lie because it explicitly refers to Christ and to the Holy Spirit as "God" as well. How are they the same, by their nature or essence yet distinct by their personhood. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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Dagallen

Guest
How can what is not visible (a spirit) be made visible
. The spirit has no form but the spirit takes on form but yet the spirit is not flesh nor is the flesh spirit, as the spirit is like the wind, it comes and it goes.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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. The spirit has no form but the spirit takes on form but yet the spirit is not flesh nor is the flesh spirit, as the spirit is like the wind, it comes and it goes.
Spirit does not "come and go".

Jesus said only that:
"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
 
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FeedtheMachine

Guest
"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:12-17)

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." - (Genesis 1:1)
 
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jaybird88

Guest
Trofimus, I don't understand how this is a debate? Is Jesus God? If He isn't, then we all have a problem don't we? Genesis 1 tells how God (the Father) created everything. In 1 Colossians it tells us how everything was created for and by Jesus. Either the Bible contradicts itself in several places OR it is trying to tell us that God and Jesus are one and the same? My son figured this out without the help of a Pastor or scholar when he was still in his pre-teens and excitedly came to ask me if I knew that Jesus was God...
two statements that say different things dont contradict. the source of the creating power is the Father. created through and for the Son.