True Baptism

notuptome · Sep 22, 2017

DJ2 said:

Should I be writing to lead you to Christ? Are you in doubt of your salvation?

I have no respect for false doctrine. Baptismal regeneration is indeed false doctrine. Your accusations against what you term trust only is not giving any confidence that you have anything beyond a water baptism salvation.

What does born again mean to you from a biblical perspective?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

DJ2 · Sep 27, 2017

notuptome said:

I also have no respect for false doctrine. Trust only regeneration is indeed false doctrine. Your accusations against what you term baptismal regeneration exposes a blind confidence in a faith only salvation.

James states, "Faith without works is dead".

Followers of faith only regeneration attempt to change this to mean, "faith without proof of works is dead". James is not writing about proof of faith, as much as he is writing about works of faith.

Saving faith exists whether proof is apparent or not. The examples of Abraham and Rahab in James 2 are about physical acts required to receive the promised reward.

Since you have made it quite clear you have no intention of answering my questions, I have little desire to answer yours but as a gesture of goodwill I will.

What does born again mean?

John 3:5 tells us we must.
Acts 2:38 tells us how.
Romans 6:3 & Colossians 2:13 tells us why.

notuptome · Sep 27, 2017

DJ2 said:

You cannot set Paul at variance with James. I have no need to answer your contentious questions. You must address the blood of Christ. The natural man cannot receive the things of the Holy Spirit. I do tend to be terse with those who demonstrate disregard for the grace of God.

Acts 2:38 is not water and the conversion is initiated by repentance which is believing not what one thinks but what the bible teaches about Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

DJ2 · Sep 27, 2017

notuptome said:

It is the followers of trust only regeneration that pit James against Paul and ignore the simple flow and form of the Bible. Those that believe they are saved because they trust that God will save them are badly mistaken. God is not mocked, the many examples of obedience needed before receiving the blessings of God is clearly there.

It is the natural man that needs the trust only notion to sleep at night, the spiritual man knows better.

The trust only regeneration sects have no real answers to such simple rebuttals yet they continue to peddle such nonsense.

Donmech · Oct 10, 2017

Baptism according to scripture is a very important sacrament, however, Paul absolutely clears up the matter by completely removing baptism from the equation of Salvation. He plainly states that Jesus Christ said baptism was not a part of the Gospel, look at 1 Cor. 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: This verse clearly removes baptism from the gospel. He said that Christ sent him, not to baptize but preach the gospel. If baptism was required to be saved would Paul have minimized it? Read 1 Cor. 1:14 I think God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius. WOW! did Paul just lose his concern for lost people? Or, maybe it clears the water (NPI) about baptism be a part of Salvation. We must be concerned about obeying the commands of Christ, but we must also be careful to always rightly divide the word of God. Especially concerning our salvation. This passage of scripture alone should clear-up any question's about adding to the gospel of Christ. I think we should be very careful. God has done all the work for our salvation, our part is to believe it, turn from our sin, and be obedient. The first command of a Christian is to be baptized to identify with Him after we are saved. But , in no way according to Jesus Christ does baptism play any part in obtaining salvation. ( "Chris sent me not to baptize...")

Donmech · Oct 10, 2017

hornetguy said:

Salvation was not purchased for demons, only for mankind, of coarse demons believe they know who Jesus is!

mailmandan · Oct 11, 2017

Donmech said:

Even the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. *In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Jesus), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

shadowPal07 · Oct 28, 2017

Persuaded said:

Can we be SAVED and NOT obey Christ's COMMAND to be baptized?
If we can be saved, while we are in DISobedience to Christ....why bother with baptism or any other command of Christ?

I do believe that OBEDIENCE is a MUST....not an option.
As such, I believe we MUST OBEY Christ's command to be baptized OR we will be in DISobedience and I do NOT believe anyone can be saved in deliberate disobedience and as such not being baptized would be a salvation issue.

Just something to ponder.....have a blessed day

Crustyone · Oct 28, 2017

We were given many commands, and disobedience of any is a sin, and all but one sin can be forgiven. I believe that the main reason for baptism is to secure the individual's spirit from being reunited with an unclean spirit as can happen like Jesus tells us in Luike chapter 11 verses 24-26 24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order.26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first." The Holy Spirit takes up the space that an impure spirit would otherwise inhabit and thus prevents the falling away of a saved individual.

shadowPal07 · Oct 28, 2017

I DO believe that the HOLY SPIRIT does inhabit the Christian...no doubt about that.

However baptism is a must... BEFORE... the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, for it is in BAPTISM, that our sins are remitted....not before.

Until one is Baptized one is still in their sins....and DIRTY

As such, the Holy Spirit DOES indwell the cleansed {one who is baptized} individual...no doubt.

Mark 16:16 Jesus said and it is written: He that believeth ... AND {which means PLUS / IN ADDITION to}.....is baptized...SHALL BE SAVED.....BUT......he that believeth NOT shall be damned.

Would someone who does NOT BELIEVE be saved??

Can we DISobey Him and be saved?

I think not on both questions.

Just something to ponder....have a blessed day.

Zi · Oct 28, 2017

Ever read Acts?

shadowPal07 said:

I DO believe that the HOLY SPIRIT does inhabit the Christian...no doubt about that.

However baptism is a must... BEFORE... the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, for it is in BAPTISM, that our sins are remitted....not before.

Until one is Baptized one is still in their sins....and DIRTY

As such, the Holy Spirit DOES indwell the cleansed {one who is baptized} individual...no doubt.

Mark 16:16 Jesus said and it is written: He that believeth ... AND {which means PLUS / IN ADDITION to}.....is baptized...SHALL BE SAVED.....BUT......he that believeth NOT shall be damned.

Would someone who does NOT BELIEVE be saved??

Can we DISobey Him and be saved?

I think not on both questions.

Just something to ponder....have a blessed day.

carl11 · Oct 28, 2017

shadowPal07 said:

If that is the case then how did this all play out for those that had become saved in the OT ? They knew nothing of water baptism but yet many did become saved with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. [Rom. 8:9]

shadowPal07 · Oct 28, 2017

No........I do not just "read" Acts...I STUDIED Acts

Have a blessed day

Zi · Oct 28, 2017

Then you skipped some. Otherwise you wouldn't have said water baptism must come first.

shadowPal07 said:

Zi · Oct 28, 2017

You as well

shadowPal07 · Oct 28, 2017

IT IS WRITTEN:
We can LEARN from the OLD Testament examples (1 Cor. 10:11)
but sins were NOT remitted in the OLD testament.
Sins were simply rolled over year after year (Hebrews 10:4)…It
took the blood of Christ for sins to be remitted and He shed His blood for the NEW testament (Mark 14:21)

The sins of those in the OT was simply rolled forward each year......allll the way to the cross of CHRIST.....the sacrificial LAMB of God.
Because of the shed blood of Christ there is NO need for any more sacrifices of animals.
The blood of animals did not remit sins.....only the blood of CHRIST does.

Just something to ponder....have a blessed day

shadowPal07 · Oct 28, 2017

Zi said:

No, I skipped nothing.
I believe that the 8th chapter, verses 35-39 of ACTS, explains WHY I believe as I do.

Study that and you will easily understand why I believe as I do.

Have a blessed day

Zi · Oct 28, 2017

Then you need not teach. You'll allow many to worry and question.. salvation is not in rituals. I was not baptized until years later. No one who knows me questioned my salvation. Life changed instantly. Addictions from years dropped. Nothing but power by the Holy Spirit does that..

shadowPal07 said:

Zi · Oct 28, 2017

Also Acts has another account which shows ALWAYS or MUST is not the case.

Haven't studied enough.

May be harsh but I can't stand RULES.. law is not for us today

shadowPal07 said:

shadowPal07 · Oct 28, 2017

Zi said:

Yes, I must and will teach.
I simply post the oracles of GOD...."sow the seed".....and let the "seed" fall on the "soil it falls on".
I do not STOMP the "seed" into the "soil" it falls on.
IF, the "seed" falls upon "good soil" then there will be a "harvest"....and THAT will be up to GOD....not me.

Perhaps there are people who NEED to be concerned and question...that is a good thing.
When I studied I was concerned and I questioned....and as a result I LEARNED.
That was a good thing.

I agree that baptism is not "in rituals".....however it IS in obedience to HIS command to do so.

The fact that it took you years to obey does not change the fact that obedience is a must.

I do not question your salvation either......THAT will be Christ's job at the judgment ...not mine.
I am happy that you are freed from your "addictions" ..whatever they may be.....
and to GOD be all the glory.

Just something's to ponder...have a blessed day

True Baptism

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