True Baptism

[Stunnedbygrace]

From Paul, in Ephesians...

I believe that baptism in the Spirit happens when we are water baptized (out of obedience, as commanded) upon our acceptance of Jesus as our savior.

I do not believe scripture supports multiple baptism "occasions".

When you say you believe that baptism in the Spirit happens when we are water baptized, do you mean you believe the Spirit is received by a man upon being baptized in water? I guess my question is...do you believe no man receives the Holy Spirit unless he is baptized in water?

I agree with your last sentence there. We are told there is one baptism, one body, one faith.
If there is only one baptism, as scripture states, the men that paul asked: what baptism did you receive? - and they said: Johns baptism/water baptism, why would they need some other baptism?

In other words, if as you believe, we receive the Spirit when we are water baptized, why did these men paul spoke with not receive the Spirit upon water baptism?

Hello by the way. I haven't run across you in some time!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Baptism according to scripture is a very important sacrament, however, Paul absolutely clears up the matter by completely removing baptism from the equation of Salvation. He plainly states that Jesus Christ said baptism was not a part of the Gospel, look at 1 Cor. 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: to to baptize..."

Correct. And that is also why the term "sacrament" is inappropriate. "Ordinance" is preferable, since sacrament means that baptismal regeneration occurs when water is sprinkled on a baby (or anyone else).

 

[Crustyone]

IT IS WRITTEN:
We can LEARN from the OLD Testament examples (1 Cor. 10:11)
but sins were NOT remitted in the OLD testament.
Sins were simply rolled over year after year (Hebrews 10:4)…It
took the blood of Christ for sins to be remitted and He shed His blood for the NEW testament(Mark 14:21)

The sins of those in the OT was simply rolled forward each year......allll the way to the cross of CHRIST.....the sacrificial LAMB of God.
Because of the shed blood of Christ there is NO need for any more sacrifices of animals.
The blood of animals did not remit sins.....only the blood of CHRIST does.

Just something to ponder....have a blessed day

Their sins were not rolled over. They knew what God intended to do and believed in the power of the one to come, therefore they believed in a saviour back then and were saved. They still didn't get baptized.

 

[shadowPal07]

Their sins were not rolled over.
They knew what God intended to do and believed in the power of the one to come, therefore they believed in a saviour back then and were saved.
They still didn't get baptized.

Hebrews 10:4 For is it NOT possible that blood of bulls and of goats should take away sin

The blood of bulls and of goats did NOT take away sin

Correct......they DID know that the Savior was to come,
and of the power of the one to come,
but their sins would be washed away by the blood of the sacrificial Lamb of GOD {Christ}
...not the blood of bulls and goats.

Correct.....those under the OLD testament were not commanded by Christ to be baptized.

Christ gave the commission to BAPTIZE... after.... His death/burial/resurrection....

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore,
and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of
the Father,
and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost

Prior to Christ's death/burial/resurrection they were not commanded to be baptized.
Baptism IS commanded under the NEW testament

Act 8:38-39 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both...INTO THE WATER...both Philip and the eunuch; and he....BAPTIZED.....him. And when they were come up....OUT OF THE WATER...the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Considering Christ commanded baptism.....it can not be "just something good to do"
Commands are MUSTS.....not options

Just some things to Ponder....have a great day

 

[hornetguy]

When you say you believe that baptism in the Spirit happens when we are water baptized, do you mean you believe the Spirit is received by a man upon being baptized in water? I guess my question is...do you believe no man receives the Holy Spirit unless he is baptized in water?

I agree with your last sentence there. We are told there is one baptism, one body, one faith.
If there is only one baptism, as scripture states, the men that paul asked: what baptism did you receive? - and they said: Johns baptism/water baptism, why would they need some other baptism?

In other words, if as you believe, we receive the Spirit when we are water baptized, why did these men paul spoke with not receive the Spirit upon water baptism?

Hello by the way. I haven't run across you in some time!

Hello to you, too... it HAS been a while, hasn't it?

From reading scripture, it seems to indicate that our "old man" is dead and buried in baptism, and we rise out of the water just as Jesus rose from the grave, to walk as new men. Peter told those at Pentecost to repent, and be baptized, and that they would receive the Holy Spirit.

Since we are to be baptized in water, AND in the Spirit, the only way we can reconcile that with "one Lord, one faith, and one baptism" is that they happen at the same time... we are physically baptized, and spiritually baptized.

I believe that is the difference between John's baptism and the baptism that Jesus commanded. John's baptism was only in water, for forgiveness. Jesus' baptism brought the Spirit into the equation.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hello to you, too... it HAS been a while, hasn't it?

From reading scripture, it seems to indicate that our "old man" is dead and buried in baptism, and we rise out of the water just as Jesus rose from the grave, to walk as new men. Peter told those at Pentecost to repent, and be baptized, and that they would receive the Holy Spirit.

Since we are to be baptized in water, AND in the Spirit, the only way we can reconcile that with "one Lord, one faith, and one baptism" is that they happen at the same time... we are physically baptized, and spiritually baptized.

I believe that is the difference between John's baptism and the baptism that Jesus commanded. John's baptism was only in water, for forgiveness. Jesus' baptism brought the Spirit into the equation.

Okay. So if the only way it makes sense to you is that they happen at the same time, how did the men paul came across not receive the Spirit yet even though they had been water baptized? ah...hmm...maybe I can answer that - they hadn't HEARD of that Baptism yet. No man had told them about it as I recall the verses.

I could also tell you that I have received the Spirit over 11 years ago but have still not been water baptized, but there would be no reason for you to believe me that it is the truth unless you saw the fruits of the Spirit in me.

In your last sentence you say baptism is in water for forgiveness. Could you expound on that please? I'm vaguely remembering a verse that I think you are probably using to arrive at that...thinking on that but will maybe say something on it later - confused to think it is through a man performing a water baptism that forgiveness of my sins is gained...heck, I've prob confused you too now lol

 

[Dai3234]

I think I've just found out that baptism in the new testament has nothing to do with water.

On YouTube, Jim brown, grace and Truth ministries, teaches greek with parsing (male/female words etc), and basically explains it meant sprinkling with blood.

Also connecting the white robes of revelation dipped/sprinkled with blood, not water etc.

I hope I can understand greek better when I get a "word study concordance", but learning and parsing greek, will probably make me mad.

Don't understand his explanation of elect and judgement though.

 

[plaintalk]

True Baptism #1I

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him. (Rom. 6: 8)

For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. (2 Tim. 2: 11)

Rom. 6: 3-8 tells us that we die with our Lord when we are baptized into Christ and into His death. Baptism in water in the name of Christ is associated with several things but one of the primary is death, dying with our Lord. On the other hand baptism with the Spirit is about life and regeneration and renewal. We need both to fulfill God's purpose in out lives. We must be born of both water and Spirit to enter the kingdom. (John 3: 5) IMO baptism in water is also a symbol and picture of the cleansing by the blood of Christ, not of baptism with the Spirit. God. bless.

 

[Snoozy]

I think I've just found out that baptism in the new testament has nothing to do with water.

On YouTube, Jim brown, grace and Truth ministries, teaches greek with parsing (male/female words etc), and basically explains it meant sprinkling with blood.

Also connecting the white robes of revelation dipped/sprinkled with blood, not water etc.

I hope I can understand greek better when I get a "word study concordance", but learning and parsing greek, will probably make me mad.

Don't understand his explanation of elect and judgement though.

this is how they deceive people.
they go back to the greek.

baptism does have everything to do with water. the church has always baptized with water. the real church will continue to do so.
if u havent been baptized in water get baptized.

dont listen to that guy hes deceived and deceiving others by twisting scriptures to remove water baptism.

 

[hornetguy]

Okay. So if the only way it makes sense to you is that they happen at the same time, how did the men paul came across not receive the Spirit yet even though they had been water baptized? ah...hmm...maybe I can answer that - they hadn't HEARD of that Baptism yet. No man had told them about it as I recall the verses.

I could also tell you that I have received the Spirit over 11 years ago but have still not been water baptized, but there would be no reason for you to believe me that it is the truth unless you saw the fruits of the Spirit in me.

In your last sentence you say baptism is in water for forgiveness. Could you expound on that please? I'm vaguely remembering a verse that I think you are probably using to arrive at that...thinking on that but will maybe say something on it later - confused to think it is through a man performing a water baptism that forgiveness of my sins is gained...heck, I've prob confused you too now lol

wow... sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread... I just completely missed this post... (old age, and all that...)

This is probably the scripture you are thinking of... Acts 2...

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were [SUP][aj][/SUP]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “[SUP][ak][/SUP]Brethren, [SUP][al][/SUP]what shall we do?” [SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

There were a couple of instances mentioned in scripture where baptism and receiving the Spirit were not tied together... but I think both of those were listed as a one-off kind of event... in Acts 10, the Gentile believers that received the Spirit before baptism, to show the Jews that they were accepted by God... apparently the Jews didn't want to let the Gentiles be baptized until this happened.

And the believers that Philip (IIRC) had baptized, but had not received the Spirit, until the apostles laid hands on them... in Acts 8..

 

[oldethennew]

if 'anyone' tries to 'down-play' the Heavenly-order of Baptism in their calling,
then, there will be consequences that they will truly 'regret'.,.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

wow... sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread... I just completely missed this post... (old age, and all that...)

This is probably the scripture you are thinking of... Acts 2...


There were a couple of instances mentioned in scripture where baptism and receiving the Spirit were not tied together... but I think both of those were listed as a one-off kind of event... in Acts 10, the Gentile believers that received the Spirit before baptism, to show the Jews that they were accepted by God... apparently the Jews didn't want to let the Gentiles be baptized until this happened.

And the believers that Philip (IIRC) had baptized, but had not received the Spirit, until the apostles laid hands on them... in Acts 8..

Its okay. I forget threads for a while too sometimes.
I am one of those one off events...that's okay with me. I don't exactly know why I didn't run quickly to a church when I met Him and received the Spirit. Honestly, I don't even recall how long I didn't leave my house for afterwards...I do remember running out of food and going to the grocery store at some point. And I did go to a bookstore for a different version other than KJV. I know it was a few weeks at least that I didn't go anywhere. After that, I had some of the spirit of the words and it wasn't a thing I saw as necessary to go get water baptized since He says there is only one baptism. And boy did I ever know I'd received it!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.

 

[Dai3234]

wow... sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread... I just completely missed this post... (old age, and all that...)

This is probably the scripture you are thinking of... Acts 2...


There were a couple of instances mentioned in scripture where baptism and receiving the Spirit were not tied together... but I think both of those were listed as a one-off kind of event... in Acts 10, the Gentile believers that received the Spirit before baptism, to show the Jews that they were accepted by God... apparently the Jews didn't want to let the Gentiles be baptized until this happened.

And the believers that Philip (IIRC) had baptized, but had not received the Spirit, until the apostles laid hands on them... in Acts 8..

I've recently heard/seen that when Peter said, who are we to forbid water baptism, actually translated from greek into the opposite. Block, forbid the water. (Jim brown grace &truth ministries, YouTube , website etc).

 

[hornetguy]

I've recently heard/seen that when Peter said, who are we to forbid water baptism, actually translated from greek into the opposite. Block, forbid the water. (Jim brown grace &truth ministries, YouTube , website etc).

Well..... I once heard that God was dead.

I didn't believe that, either.....

 

[Donmech]

Correct. And that is also why the term "sacrament" is inappropriate. "Ordinance" is preferable, since sacrament means that baptismal regeneration occurs when water is sprinkled on a baby (or anyone else).

You are correct, I miss-spoke, Ordinance is the better word to describe baptism.
Thank you.

 

[tourist]

Well..... I once heard that God was dead.

I didn't believe that, either.....

Probably the same people that said that Paul was dead.