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Thread: True Baptism

  1. #161
    Senior Member hornetguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Clearest picture is in Acts 8:35-40. Especially if thou "believest thou mayest:. Mayest not mustest. Sorry of the KJV English.

    The apostles taught baptism as part of sanctification not salvation. The only baptism that saves is Holy Spirit baptism. Titus 3:5 John said there was a baptism that only Jesus could administer. John 1:33

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The reason Philip said "you MAY" is because it was in answer to the eunuch's question... the reason the eunuch asked the question is because he was taught the necessity of it. He obviously wouldn't just arbitrarily come up with "hey, how 'bout I get baptized?" .... he was taught that it was part of being saved... he was ready to be saved, and God provided water for them along the desert road. I don't believe it was a coincidence that they simply happened upon some water...

    and, again... where are the scriptures that indicate the apostles taught baptism as sanctification? I have read no scriptures that even indicate that was their teaching, much less state it explicitly.

    And, you are correct about being baptized in the Spirit. I believe that happens when we obey Jesus, and are baptized in water... we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

  2. #162
    Senior Member Muzungu256's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    hornetguy why are u saying that if something is optional why bother? do u only do things because u are forced to do them? that doesnt sound like genuine love. but maybe it is-

  3. #163
    Senior Member hornetguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    hornetguy why are u saying that if something is optional why bother? do u only do things because u are forced to do them? that doesnt sound like genuine love. but maybe it is-
    In a way, yes. If baptism is simply an option, then why bother with it?

    I also don't think we are forced to be baptized, but we are commanded to do it. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.." THAT is genuine love...

    It is very plain to me that baptism is a part of our salvation... it is our response in obedience to Christ. We hear the gospel, and are convinced of our need for salvation... accept Jesus, and his gift of salvation, and are baptized as we are commanded. It all is necessary. You can't be saved without hearing, or without believing, or without accepting Jesus as your savior, or without being baptized.

    Hearing by itself doesn't save you. Believing by itself doesn't save you....etc.... all of it together saves you.
    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Muzungu256's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    In a way, yes. If baptism is simply an option, then why bother with it?

    I also don't think we are forced to be baptized, but we are commanded to do it. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.." THAT is genuine love...

    It is very plain to me that baptism is a part of our salvation... it is our response in obedience to Christ. We hear the gospel, and are convinced of our need for salvation... accept Jesus, and his gift of salvation, and are baptized as we are commanded. It all is necessary. You can't be saved without hearing, or without believing, or without accepting Jesus as your savior, or without being baptized.

    Hearing by itself doesn't save you. Believing by itself doesn't save you....etc.... all of it together saves you.
    so its not just believe, its believe, be baptized and obey. the whole thing. ok
    well do u believe in etenral hellfire? just curious.

  5. #165
    Senior Member hornetguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    so its not just believe, its believe, be baptized and obey. the whole thing. ok
    well do u believe in etenral hellfire? just curious.
    wow... that's a bit of a change of direction, but, I believe that scripture tells us that those who are not in the family, or body of Christ will spend eternity in torment. Whether that is an actual fire, or if it is the torment of being forever removed from God, I don't know... I just know I don't want to be there.
    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Senior Member Muzungu256's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    wow... that's a bit of a change of direction, but, I believe that scripture tells us that those who are not in the family, or body of Christ will spend eternity in torment. Whether that is an actual fire, or if it is the torment of being forever removed from God, I don't know... I just know I don't want to be there.
    ok. thanks. ur cool.

  7. #167
    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    The reason Philip said "you MAY" is because it was in answer to the eunuch's question... the reason the eunuch asked the question is because he was taught the necessity of it. He obviously wouldn't just arbitrarily come up with "hey, how 'bout I get baptized?" .... he was taught that it was part of being saved... he was ready to be saved, and God provided water for them along the desert road. I don't believe it was a coincidence that they simply happened upon some water...

    and, again... where are the scriptures that indicate the apostles taught baptism as sanctification? I have read no scriptures that even indicate that was their teaching, much less state it explicitly.

    And, you are correct about being baptized in the Spirit. I believe that happens when we obey Jesus, and are baptized in water... we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    We receive the Holy Spirit the instant we believe in Christ and are born again. Yes the Holy Spirit is a gift from God and He, the Holy Spirit, abides within us forever. We receive the Holy Spirit even if we are not water baptized.

    We begin our sanctification or our walk with the Lord with water baptism but here again it is not essential to be water baptized. It is certainly a reasonable expectation and I would encourage everyone who professes to know Christ as Savior to be water baptized but you are just as saved dry as you are wet.

    Judaism has many washings for cleansing and these are water baptisms but we know that they cannot wash away sin. It takes blood to cleanse away sin.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzungu256 View Post
    hornetguy why are u saying that if something is optional why bother? do u only do things because u are forced to do them? that doesnt sound like genuine love. but maybe it is-
    "Forced"? Would you get in a pool of water and let someone put your head underwater for no good reason?

  9. #169
    Senior Member hornetguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    We receive the Holy Spirit even if we are not water baptized.
    Not according to scriptural examples.
    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    Not according to scriptural examples.
    See Acts 10.

    Also:
    Eph 1:
    13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
    Not according to scriptural examples.
    John 20:22

    You do realize that what you are saying is that you were not saved until you were water baptized? We are quickened by the grace of God by the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass
    use it to examine yourself not others.

  12. #172
    Senior Member Locutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    1 Pet 3:20 who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah -- an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;

    1 Pet 3:21 also to which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ.

  13. #173
    Senior Member hornetguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    John 20:22

    You do realize that what you are saying is that you were not saved until you were water baptized? We are quickened by the grace of God by the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    No, what I'm saying is that I wasn't saved until I heard the good news, believed it, accepted Jesus into my life, and was baptized.

    Just as scripture teaches us.
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    No man is really saved unless he is in his heart obedient to Christ. C.H. Spurgeon

  14. #174


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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Water cannot save. Water cannot wash away sin. Only the blood of Christ can cleanse us from our sin.

    Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin. Hebrews 9:22

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger
    The knowledge that the blood of Jesus Christ saves is meaningless without the understanding of how to come in contact with it. Knowing something exist does not grant the reward of its existence. Proclaiming "only the blood saves" has no effect on the salvation of anyone, it is the response to His gospel that saves.

    Proclaiming "penicillin cures staph" is true but is useless without the proper administering of the medicine. Those who proclaim the cure but deny the proper administering of the cure are leading many to their doom.

    All the blood on every door post in Egypt would not save without the first born safely under its shadow. Any first born not obedient to this command died. The blood only saved the obedient.

    You state, "Water cannot save." If God chooses, it most certainly can.

    Baptism, which is like that water now saves you. (1 Peter 3:21a)

    Who are we to debate Him?
    Last edited by DJ2; September 13th, 2017 at 11:00 PM.

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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    The knowledge that the blood of Jesus Christ saves is meaningless without the understanding of how to come in contact with it. Knowing something exist does not grant the reward of its existence. Proclaiming "only the blood saves" has no effect on the salvation of anyone, it is the response to His gospel that saves.

    Proclaiming "penicillin cures staph" is true but is useless without the proper administering of the medicine. Those who proclaim the cure but deny the proper administering of the cure are leading many to their doom.

    All the blood on every door post in Egypt would not save without the first born safely under its shadow. Any first born not obedient to this command died. The blood only saved the obedient.

    You state, "Water cannot save." If God chooses, it most certainly can.

    Baptism, which is like that water now saves you. (1 Peter 3:21a)

    Who are we to debate Him?
    We aren't to debate Him, but we can certainly debate you, and your understanding of 1 Pet 3:21.

    (NIV) and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    Noah was saved through water, which symbolized the baptism that now saves us, which is baptism in the Holy Spirit.

    1 Cor 12:
    13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Acts 1:
    5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

    Mat 3:11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Luke 3:16) John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

    Eph 4:
    5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    Eph 1:
    13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

  16. #176


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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Oh, and this:

    After preaching the Gospel several years back a man wanted to come join at church and publicly declare his salvation and present himself for public baptism that next Sunday.

    The preacher of that church? He told him he doesn't need to be baptized, and told me the same thing.

    This happened at a local SBC church.
    Anyone who believes that the purpose of baptism is a "outward act of an inward grace" with eventually come to this conclusion. If baptism is nothing more then telling people you believe that Jesus is Lord, whats the fuss. This is the logical outcome of the "trust alone" theology.

    Once you start taking general verses such as John 3:16 and label them as definitive, absolute and all-encompassing statements of commission, no only verse matters. The general statement must overrule any verses that incorporate the need for obedience. It does not matter that their verses are not written in the definitive, they have convinced themselves they are.

    Nothing matters other then "trust alone", this is their stumbling block, their idol, their strong delusion. Unwilling to even consider another viewpoint, safe in their 100% "no way but our way" assurance of their theology. Many so bold as to state that God has in one way or another told them that they are right.

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    Senior Member pottersclay's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    May I suggest that Christ himself was baptised and thought it pretty important to included it in the great commission.

    Also if done in the manner of scriptural reference " believe and be baptised" it is your first act of obedience onto faith. Just saying
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    Senior Member fredoheaven's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    The "implication" is that baptizing a unbeliever is absurd. Don't you agree?
    So...it seems you are now trying to agree with me.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
    My bible states, "And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

    What kind of baptism was it? One of repentance.
    What was it for? The remission of sins.

    What part do you disagree with?

    They did not get baptized to get repentance, they got baptized to get remission of sins.
    Your full quote is correct but not to your previous post.

    You see if by your definition of the word "for" as in the previous thread is concern, then it's a mess up. For how Jesus Baptism is "for the remission of sins"? Are you not inferring Christ a sinner? and not a Saviour?

    This needs to weigh your perspective.

    God bless
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    Default Re: True Baptism

    Any unbeliever will not want to be baptized,because they will not believe in baptism in the first place. Only those that believe will want water baptism. When John the baptist saw many of the Pharisees, and Sadducees come to his baptism, it was because they had a change of heart, and wanted to be baptized. It was belief that drawed them there in the first place.They became believers. Baptism is a sign of ones belief only,but the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a sign of one that is saved. All believers are not saved, that is why Jesus said that many are called, but few are chosen. That few are the Holy Ghost filled believers. He also said even the demons believe and they tremble.
    Last edited by Gabriel2020; September 14th, 2017 at 02:22 AM.

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