ENOCH 1???

[Dai3234]

Hello, in in the middle of an "easy reading" book of Enoch (1). In wondering why Christian bibles in general, don't include it? The Jewish Tora doesn't include it either. Is that the only reason? It seems very connected to a Christ-figure/human, and texts are before Jesus. Are their obvious flaws I haven't seen or read yet, because it seems like it is written very similar to Revelation?

Any information appreciated thanks.

 

[Zen]

It's not God's Word, so it isn't preserved.

Maybe there's a few nuggets of information in it, but stick with the KJV bible.

Psalm 12:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

 

[trofimus]

It has unknown historical origin. It just appeared.

Thats probably why it did not make it to the canon.

Also, it has no line of copying, so we actually do not know which parts are original, which are added etc.

And because it is so "hidden" from any possible examination, it was always seen as suspicious, at least.

I personally think that at least first parts are OK and that its accuracy goes down as you near the end.

 

[Dai3234]

It's not God's Word, so it isn't preserved.

Maybe there's a few nuggets of information in it, but stick with the KJV bible.

Psalm 12:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

It is included in some Christian Bible's, but not many.

 

[PrynceNY]

I read a decent portion of it, it does have connections to the events leading to the flood. It is intriguing to read ill say.

 

[Dai3234]

I read a decent portion of it, it does have connections to the events leading to the flood. It is intriguing to read ill say.

When you get to the middle roughly, it seems to explain the gospel. A man in heaven, who was at the beginning, will make the earth bow and judge etc etc, and no one who doesn't believe in him etc etc.
Seems very new testament for a 300bc book?

 

[Dai3234]

46:1-8 and 47:1-4 and 48:1-10 seem particularly connected.

 

[PrynceNY]

When you get to the middle roughly, it seems to explain the gospel. A man in heaven, who was at the beginning, will make the earth bow and judge etc etc, and no one who doesn't believe in him etc etc.
Seems very new testament for a 300bc book?

Yea it does however as we know God knows the beginning and the end. God couldve decided to reveal those future things to Enoch similar to like he revealed revelations future events. It is revealed that God favored enoch and he was one of the very few who didn't experience death.

 

[trofimus]

When you get to the middle roughly, it seems to explain the gospel. A man in heaven, who was at the beginning, will make the earth bow and judge etc etc, and no one who doesn't believe in him etc etc.
Seems very new testament for a 300bc book?

We do not have the 300 BC manuscript, only much younger.

Thats why we do not know what is original. Anything except quoted parts (for example in Jude) can be added by some sects.

 

[Dai3234]

We do not have the 300 BC manuscript, only much younger.

Thats why we do not know what is original. Anything except quoted parts (for example in Jude) can be added by some sects.

Why does it say 300 BC online? What if any, is from 300bc?

 

[resurrection33]

Hello, in in the middle of an "easy reading" book of Enoch (1). In wondering why Christian bibles in general, don't include it? The Jewish Tora doesn't include it either. Is that the only reason? It seems very connected to a Christ-figure/human, and texts are before Jesus. Are their obvious flaws I haven't seen or read yet, because it seems like it is written very similar to Revelation?

Any information appreciated thanks.

There are many, many, many books that were written. The people responsible for determining which books belonged in the Bible apparently decided Enoch didn't merit entry. The Bible is a long book already.

 

[trofimus]

Why does it say 300 BC online? What if any, is from 300bc?

Its estimated era of its production. But we do not have it preserved from this time.

I think the oldest copy we have is from the 4th century? And this one can be tempered with heavily...

I do not say it must be, we just do not know what percentage of what we can reconstruct today is really truthfull.

 

[NayborBear]

I haven't read all of Enoch. But, I did read far enough to where Enoch started naming names, and attaching that which each one did, when they went on their "rape fest" upon the daughters of men, or bride of Christ, if you will.

May even find the Book of Jasher to be of interest to ya.

In my guesstimated, "S.W.A.G."...Enoch, and Jasher, et el, were "manhandled"! Yet, to a discerning eye, one can wade through and "catch" those parts that they weren't able to "pollute and corrupt".

 

[Depleted]

Hello, in in the middle of an "easy reading" book of Enoch (1). In wondering why Christian bibles in general, don't include it? The Jewish Tora doesn't include it either. Is that the only reason? It seems very connected to a Christ-figure/human, and texts are before Jesus. Are their obvious flaws I haven't seen or read yet, because it seems like it is written very similar to Revelation?

Any information appreciated thanks.

While Christians were hiding out in the first couple of centuries, they saved letters from each other. The biggies (Paul, Peter, James, John, etc.) were scribed to send copies out. And they hide them so they wouldn't be discovered.

Also, back then, as it is now, folks wanted to change God's word to fit their own agenda. Something like Yellow Journalism/tabloid papers today. They were passed around too. (Also, supposedly by biggies, like Thomas, Jesus, Mary Magdalene, etc.)

Now, at any given moment, Romans could find them and kill them. And, because the Romans were trying to stop this new religion, they also hunted for papers to burn. So, these folks put the papers in two hide outs. One for stuff they liked, but not quite as important. The other in a far safer place, with the idea that if the first pile was found, the Romans wouldn't keep searching.

Finally, Constantine became emperor, and it was okay to come out of hiding. And the papers came out of hiding.

But which were the goodies, and which were less than? (Which were inspired by God, and which weren't?) They had a counsel to decide. The people in hiding had limited contact with anyone else, but it came to light that they all chose the same writings to keep in the very special spot. The same ones each time. (I think that's a miracle.) And, then it came to light that there was fraud.

I count on people back then to know which were frauds more than we can tell today. But, the gospels of Thomas, Jesus, and Mary Magdalene, plus Enoch (among a bigger list), all were chosen for the junk pile.

 

[trofimus]

While Christians were hiding out in the first couple of centuries, they saved letters from each other. The biggies (Paul, Peter, James, John, etc.) were scribed to send copies out. And they hide them so they wouldn't be discovered.

Also, back then, as it is now, folks wanted to change God's word to fit their own agenda. Something like Yellow Journalism/tabloid papers today. They were passed around too. (Also, supposedly by biggies, like Thomas, Jesus, Mary Magdalene, etc.)

Now, at any given moment, Romans could find them and kill them. And, because the Romans were trying to stop this new religion, they also hunted for papers to burn. So, these folks put the papers in two hide outs. One for stuff they liked, but not quite as important. The other in a far safer place, with the idea that if the first pile was found, the Romans wouldn't keep searching.

Finally, Constantine became emperor, and it was okay to come out of hiding. And the papers came out of hiding.

But which were the goodies, and which were less than? (Which were inspired by God, and which weren't?) They had a counsel to decide. The people in hiding had limited contact with anyone else, but it came to light that they all chose the same writings to keep in the very special spot. The same ones each time. (I think that's a miracle.) And, then it came to light that there was fraud.

I count on people back then to know which were frauds more than we can tell today. But, the gospels of Thomas, Jesus, and Mary Magdalene, plus Enoch (among a bigger list), all were chosen for the junk pile.

This is quite an interesting information (do you have some source?). Any copying was very expensive so even these writings had to be precious. I am quite suprised that somebody would be so rich to make a false hide outs of writings.

Also Enoch is from the Old Testament era, not from the NT era. So why to mix it with Thomas, Mary Magalene etc and make it a honey pot for the protection of the NT writings? Its so bulky (and expensive to produce...).

 

[OneFaith]

Hello, in in the middle of an "easy reading" book of Enoch (1). In wondering why Christian bibles in general, don't include it? The Jewish Tora doesn't include it either. Is that the only reason? It seems very connected to a Christ-figure/human, and texts are before Jesus. Are their obvious flaws I haven't seen or read yet, because it seems like it is written very similar to Revelation?

Any information appreciated thanks.

The Bible itself says there are many more writings. But God chose only these to be scripture. There were more of these cannons found than any other ancient writings, and these were the books found together many times over. God is in control of all things, especially His Word.

 

[jaybird88]

When you get to the middle roughly, it seems to explain the gospel. A man in heaven, who was at the beginning, will make the earth bow and judge etc etc, and no one who doesn't believe in him etc etc.
Seems very new testament for a 300bc book?

the Enoch scrolls found at Qumran date to 200 - 150 BC. i think some may push the date back a bit further. its still older than any NT book. Enoch was used in the Essene theology more than any other scroll. the Essenes were also the only Jewish sect at the time of Jesus that was expecting the Christ. many throw the Nazerenes in there was well but many believe they were both from the same school of thought.

 

[Demi777]

The Council of Trient excluded it along with other books like Judas and Lilith. I like the book of Enoch. It gives a better insight

 

[prove-all]

It is revealed that God favored enoch and he was one of
the very few who didn't experience death.

Enoch [died] and was buried by God.

The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated.
Instead it says he was not found. Certainly Enoch was "translated," or
to "convey to another place. in Acts 7:16. Here we read that after Jacob died
his body was "carried over" - transported- to Sychem where he was buried!

The scripture says that he "walked with God after he begat Methuselah
three hundred years." So Enoch followed God's ways for three hundred years.
Moses did not record that Enoch [is still] walking with God.

"all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years" If Enoch did
not die - if he were changed to immortality - and thus continued to walk with God,
then his days would have been more than three hundred and sixty-five years.

Enoch is included by Paul (in Hebrews 11) among the fathers who obtained
a good report through faith; but"these all, having obtained a good report
through faith, received not the promise" (Heb. 11:39). What promise?

The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).

Enoch and all the worthies of old will receive the promise of eternal life
at the return of Christ, the same time Christians obtain it (Heb. 11:40)
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises."

The first death is appointed unto men (Heb. 9:27). That death cannot
be humanly evaded. It is inevitable, and that death Enoch died.

The phrase "should not see"is in the conditional tense of the verb,
having reference to a future event.

It is not in the past tense, that he "did not see" death - but that he
"should not see death." So this death that Enoch escaped by being
translated is one that he can escape in the future on certain conditions!

In John 8:51 Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my
saying, he shall never see death" - shall never see - that is, suffer - the
second death! And again in John 11:26, "Whosoever liveth and believeth
in me shall never die" - or "shall not die forever."

The future death which Enoch should escape must be the second death which
will never touch those who are in the first resurrection (Rev. 20:6).