How can this be? What did Jesus mean?
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John 21:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Staying in the world, like everyone else.
I can't remember which thread it was in, but there was a post recently suggesting that it was this:
Matthew 17:
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, [SUP]
2 [/SUP]And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
I can't remember which thread it was in, but there was a post recently suggesting that it was this:
Matthew 17:
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, [SUP]
2 [/SUP]And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
A simple direct scripture meaning with some context: I believe Jesus said these words to his disciples in the first year of his ministry. The disciples knew they were going to die at the hands of unbelievers for righteousness. Jesus was just saying to them that some would not die until his resurrection, into his kingdom. Then I wonder if the Kingdom is already in-place 2000 years ago, and that cannot be. I just do not know the significance of the statement for us today. It meant a great deal though to the disciples.
Now if you look at the second meaning (there are many dual meaning statements made by Jesus incidentally), Jesus is saying that when the New Jerusalem come out of heaven there will be believers that will not die a physical death. They will be resurrected on the 'fly.' Now this has more meaning for today.
BL: Both meanings are true. The first already occurred and we are now waiting on second future event.
In Christ, Always
Now if you look at the second meaning (there are many dual meaning statements made by Jesus incidentally), Jesus is saying that when the New Jerusalem come out of heaven there will be believers that will not die a physical death. They will be resurrected on the 'fly.' Now this has more meaning for today.
BL: Both meanings are true. The first already occurred and we are now waiting on second future event.
In Christ, Always
It must obviously have some spiritual connotations, that shall remain "one of those mysteries" that Paul sometimes referred to. A "clue" might be "we shall all be changed", or, they may be with Jesus ...."in the air". or "raptured".
Or? It could be something like Jesus' kingdom actually started becoming "a place on the map", after the cloven tongues of fire came upon the disciples/apostles.
Or? It could be something like Jesus' kingdom actually started becoming "a place on the map", after the cloven tongues of fire came upon the disciples/apostles.
The Kingdom started spiritualy on the day of pentacost when the apostles where gathered in Jerusalem and the Hoily Spirit came down and indwelled them.. As Christians we believe that the Father Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One.. So in a spiritual sence the apostles where the first citizens of the Kingdom.. But now we await the physical establishment of the Kingdom when The LORD Jesus Christ will return physically on the Day of the LORD ..
the thief on the cross wasnt told He had to wait He said " i tell you today you will be with me in paradise."
Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
so while we pass from this Body, remember that Jesus is the resurrection and the Life. there are 2 births in the Bible, one of the Womb, and One of the Spirit of God. and there are 2 deaths One of the Body, and the second death is much worse.
revelation 20:14, revelation 2:10
Our flesh is doomed, cursed Byu our parents adam and eve, but those of the second Birth the spirit of God are promised they will not see death. we read the ot about when they died they were then to go rest with thier fathers until some time ahead would come. remember that Jesus is the resurrection and the Life. and that He raised People from the dead already, and that many of the ot saints were resurrected at His resurrection
matthew 27:52-53 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. "
See also there are 2 resurrections( revelation 20:4-6)
remember that Paul says also this
2 corinthains 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
what im saying is this. a Born again person when they die in this Life its more like shedding the prison of our body and seeing in truth. we see death as just simply dying here our flesh dying, but if we grasp that there are 2 births, 2 deaths, 2 resurrections. if we look at the fact that moses and elijah appeared alive and well, Jesus resurrected more than one person, paul and peter both resurrected people. then we can understand that death is already defeated and that it is Jesus who Holds the Key of life and death now. and He says this
anyone who keeps my word will never taste of death" our lfesh is doomed, but that second birth is who we really are that will be present with Jesus the moment we leave this body, our spirit is not seen but it is what makes us, us its what gives this temprary Body the life, the moind and heart the inner workings of us all is our spirit its who we are. this body is like a rental House we live in for a time it was never meant to last forever, but the person inside this rental will not die or face death. I have always believed and do so more now that the Moment my body fails i will see in truth the face of My Lord Jesus Christ.
I would suggest that you look into scripture regarding this in the new testament
God bless you
The kingdom of heaven is within us his church. The Holy Spirit is God and where God is that is where his kingdom is. Jesus used Parables to explain this. He described it as a seed that grows into a plant. Our body is the earth the seed is the Holy Spirit. As we allow the Holy Spirit to transform us so the kingdom grows within us. We are nourished by the word and our minds are transformed into the mind of Christ.
His Disciples were looking for a physical kingdom but as Jesus told Pilate his kingdom is not of this world. It was only at Pentecost that the Holy Spirit was given in his fulness
His Disciples were looking for a physical kingdom but as Jesus told Pilate his kingdom is not of this world. It was only at Pentecost that the Holy Spirit was given in his fulness
there is great truth to that tanakh at the same time there is also the promise of His return when the world ends in total destruction. He is with us by the spirit Hos spirit in all the earth is the Kingdom, there will be a sudden day that the sky will be torn away and He will appear with all the angels to gather His elect from this earth. a new Heaven and new easth is promised as well. think of this part of what you are saying also
matthew 13:47-50 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
or again
matthew 13:37-43 "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
or see matthew 25:31-46. for another example. the Kingdom planted By Jesus is Here Now you are right, it grows as a seed , you are right, yet when it is time for Harvest......then will be ushered in the fullness of the promise a new earth where all the evil we Know now all around us will be destroyed forever. a perfect earth and perfect Heaven New and clean of sin.
Jesus planted the seed, or cast the net into the sea as those parables are speaking, there is a day of the end of this world , that day is His return the messiah is promised to make One more appearance not to die for sin, But to execute Gods righteous Judgement. to harvest those of His Kingdom and give them an earth that is truly Gods Design. it seems as if the harvest is nearing to me personally. Just wanted to offer that my brother.
matthew 13:47-50 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
or again
matthew 13:37-43 "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
or see matthew 25:31-46. for another example. the Kingdom planted By Jesus is Here Now you are right, it grows as a seed , you are right, yet when it is time for Harvest......then will be ushered in the fullness of the promise a new earth where all the evil we Know now all around us will be destroyed forever. a perfect earth and perfect Heaven New and clean of sin.
Jesus planted the seed, or cast the net into the sea as those parables are speaking, there is a day of the end of this world , that day is His return the messiah is promised to make One more appearance not to die for sin, But to execute Gods righteous Judgement. to harvest those of His Kingdom and give them an earth that is truly Gods Design. it seems as if the harvest is nearing to me personally. Just wanted to offer that my brother.
Hebrews 2:9 "But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone."
The context shows that Jesus was talking to some of His disciples 16:24 "Then Jesus told his disciples,". Some would say that this is part of the discussion with the 12, when the Father revealed that Jesus was the Christ to Peter, but it is not. Notice verse 21 "From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised."
Disciples were more than the 12, John 6:66 "After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him." So we see that there were more disciples than the 12, a disciple does not automatically mean believer, which is obvious by what happened here in John 6:66 and what Jesus told Peter in Luke 22:31-32 “And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” or as the KJV translates it "when thou art converted"
Peter was a disciple, but he had not been born again yet, the 11 received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 “Receive the Holy Spirit.” Which was after the resurrection. So out of all of the disciples, Jesus was talking to in Matthew 16:28 some would experience Hebrews 2:9 they would be converted and Christ would taste death for them so they would not have to and would see the coming of the Son of Man, because they will be with Him in His return.
The context shows that Jesus was talking to some of His disciples 16:24 "Then Jesus told his disciples,". Some would say that this is part of the discussion with the 12, when the Father revealed that Jesus was the Christ to Peter, but it is not. Notice verse 21 "From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised."
Disciples were more than the 12, John 6:66 "After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him." So we see that there were more disciples than the 12, a disciple does not automatically mean believer, which is obvious by what happened here in John 6:66 and what Jesus told Peter in Luke 22:31-32 “And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” or as the KJV translates it "when thou art converted"
Peter was a disciple, but he had not been born again yet, the 11 received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 “Receive the Holy Spirit.” Which was after the resurrection. So out of all of the disciples, Jesus was talking to in Matthew 16:28 some would experience Hebrews 2:9 they would be converted and Christ would taste death for them so they would not have to and would see the coming of the Son of Man, because they will be with Him in His return.
Because Jesus is referring to his coming at the head of the Roman armies in the war of 66-70AD.
Jesus made a similar statement to the kangaroo council that judged him:
Mark 16:42 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”
Mark 16:43 Tearing his clothes, the high priest *said, “What further need do we have of witnesses?
The only way that the high priest and some of the council could see Jesus "coming with the clouds" is if they lived to see it.
Which no doubt some of them did.
Jesus made a similar statement to the kangaroo council that judged him:
Mark 16:42 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”
Mark 16:43 Tearing his clothes, the high priest *said, “What further need do we have of witnesses?
The only way that the high priest and some of the council could see Jesus "coming with the clouds" is if they lived to see it.
Which no doubt some of them did.