A Request to the Teachers

[Depleted]

Hey, Willie? Does it please you to know you and Stephen learned the same lessons?

1 Corinthians 1​

26For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29so that no man may boast before God. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”

1 Timothy 3​

1It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

2 Timothy 2​

20Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. 21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work. 22Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Please note that no specialized training is required in scripture.

Seminary in the past has been helpful, but by no means would I recommend it today, because it is now corrupt.

Not only so, but any sinner with a good memory can pass seminary with flying colors.

The worst I've ever seen is a preacher coming straight out of seminary & taking a church. No humility. No empathy. Conceited, thinking he's the "professional".

Somehow they're brainwashed to believe they deserve a big church with all the trimmings.

It seems their first commitment is to to their career instead of God's church.

I also, like Willie, took more time to be debrainwashed from former denominational teachings. Spot on, Willie.

I have no formal training at all. All of it has been from prayer, study, & experience.

 

[Depleted]

We as Christians should all have a little discernment. If we are saved we know the voice of the Lord and we know the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit of God always matches up so if someone is bringing us something that doesn’t match up we know that it is not of God.

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Maybe we should. But it isn't happening. Instead, you hinted that everyone always knows while I see example after example of "not a clue."

 

[loveme1]

So I say God doesn't poof information into the person, and your response is above. Summarized is "It's not impossible for God to do that, but it hasn't happened to me." And then you go on to say you're "lead" to share what God will have you say. About right?

Because right after this reply you tried to correct Post on what he said by proving you didn't accept what he said, despite giving the same verse he gave.

That's what happens too often here. Too busy proving someone else is wrong by proving you didn't read what they said before responding, only to respond with agreement in the end. Twice in a row.

Not a teacher.

And, you're right. It is standard of this site, but I'm not blaming the Holy Spirit on it.

I witnessed that I read verses in the past and did not understand them... only when I was Baptized with the Holy Spirit did I read and listen within.... I share freely what I'm given to share...

To summarise, do not Put GOD in a box... read numbers 22:22... what talks?

GOD can and do as he wishes with neither yours or my approval.

You have made a thread and you require proof of expertise.. based on what standard?

I am taught by the Holy Spirit and share freely... I was kept from denominations and GOD led and I follow.

The day is coming when we with the Truth will be sought fiercely... but GOD is our refuge.

 

[loveme1]

We all can receive or refuse here on cc.. even block unwanted posts from certain members.

We come freely and we can leave freely.

One thing we all must remember is we are accountable for our words and behaviour so it should be in good conscience.


Peace and love to you all.

 

[resurrection33]

Please read that Scripture again and see what exactly is being said in Matthew 23:8-11, which has nothing to do with "none of us are to call ourselves teachers". It is not about what we call ourselves, but what OTHERS call us.

8
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

Well, certainly if we are not to be called teachers, then we are not to call ourselves teachers.

 

[Denadii]

Just a quick read through the first page of this forum, and there is no doubt many consider themselves teachers. Well, okay, you consider yourself a teacher. You may even be a teacher, but I have a request:

In my denomination, we know the teachers because they have to past a bunch of tests before the presbytery (session of churches) before they are approved as teachers. Most of the churches I've gone to, at the very least, I understood the background of the people preaching that week. (And, honestly? It wasn't always a background in seminary either, but at least I knew.) Can you at least give your expertise on the subject you're teaching before jumping into it? Because, if I don't know it, I'm not going to listen.

I've had enough people try and teach me stuff only to find out quickly they didn't have a clue on the subject, so I really don't waste time until I understand the teacher has a clue.

Do with this what you like. It's just a request.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[posthuman]

It is not about what we call ourselves, but what OTHERS call us.

wait - does that mean we need to chase down everyone who calls us names and make them stop?

 

[followjesus]

By trade, my husband was a HVAC mechanic and then a computer techie. (We were group home parents for a short while, but only long enough to know we were not cut out for the bureaucracy of that job.) Would you say that is the history of someone called the teach God's word?

I wouldn't. However, the elders of two different churches (one a nondenom and one a denom) talked to him about teaching, because he had a gift to teach. What told them that? Certainly not watching him teach. (No one, but me, watched him teach. lol) What told them that is he has the gift to learn. He cannot get enough from the bible to satisfy his thirst, so he kept drinking. He studied the Bible 4 hours a night.

And when they asked him to teach, he freaked. He freaked because he didn't feel like he knew enough to teach. He freaked because it was a repeated thing that people in the church would ask him to teach, so, eventually, he understood God was calling him to teach. And God was.

That didn't mean hubby had to go to school. It meant he had to purposely study. Study, in such a way, that others would understand what he learned. And, not being a wimp, he picked his most studied book to teach first -- Romans. And not knowing how to teach, he also started studying how to teach -- BI. (Before the Internet.)

One of his books he got was from another teacher of God's word. He said that to prepare himself to teach a book, he spent one month -- 30 days -- reading the book from beginning to end every day and pray God would help him understand it all. After that he took notes, asked more questions, researched those answers until he was satisfied, and then kept studying.

Would you have trusted him to teach you Romans before knowing he studied it? I mean, he could fix any heater out there, but that's really not an endorsement to teaching the Bible. Would you trust him to teach Romans after finding out how he prepared to teach it?

Because honestly? One of the things that had me make this original request was you're teaching Hebrews. You might well know Hebrews enough to teach it, but I don't know who you are to know that. It would have been helpful to know how you felt qualified to teach Hebrews before teaching Hebrews.

IRL, anyone who wants to learn about a book of the Bible knows, even before they go to the class, what the teacher knows to verify the teacher understands the book. This isn't normal life, so a brief bio would have helped.

Frankly, you don't want me to teach Hebrews or Romans, without at least giving me half a year to prepare to teach them.

first, i think you have missed what i said in the comment, second i have never claimed to be a teacher nor claimed myself to be anything but someone who follows the Lord Jesus with all i have in and without myself. the post im doing on Hebrews, is exactly what i said in the comment Here on your thread. its sharing whats there in Gods Word. and sharing what I myself see in it, not telling anyone what it says, but proividing the scripture themselves, along side the things i myself see that really dont take a speacial lense, or rewuire anyone to look through my view, but simply look at the scriptures themselves.


i do not consider myself anything, teacher, pastor, wiseman, prophet oir any other Label// in this instance, im someone of many in a Bible discussion forum, sharing scripture that others may not Have really studied or others may Have missed something, OR be ables to point me to something i have missed. which is the reason the book has been presented thusr far as it is written. many times over I have made clear I do noit consider myself a teacher or anything even of consequence to another. the Only value I have to anyone is to point them to the Word of God to find out for themselves, so they arent depending on someone telling them " this is whats there" and then offering thier own view and a couple out of context scriptures like many so called " teachers" do.


I will never write a " revolutionary" book that reveals How to see Gods Word, because my foundational Belief is that Gods Word is perfectly Designed By God, for man to learn and Know and seek after for themselves. This doesnt mean in a place Like a Bible discussion forum, we shouldnt share the things we have learned openly offering them freely. Nor should we be explaining what aplies and doesnt Because Gods Word does that for itself, to those who seek after Him through His Word, and prayer.


I dont Know your hubby, and never have read anything He teaches from romans so i have no place making any Judgements, if i were to read His teachings, i would then simply see if what He is teaching, is what the scripture is teaching, i would not take any mans word for it, i always compare whats being said, to the scripture as a whole, in the context of scripture. I believe its a wise thing to do, rather than following a certain teacher, always hear what they are saying, and then go to the source they are claiming to be teaching. Bibles are readily available so that we dont need to follow anyone.


Your hubby may be a wonderful teacher, like i said i dont Know because ive never read a word He has taught. if what He is teaching doesnt require me to omit Gods Word, and agrees with it, id say Hes probably a good annointed teacher. if Hes explaining why the gospel isnt for me because of a few scriptures in romans id say Hes probably Not a teacher called of God. the proof and ultimate North is the scripture.


I sort of already Knew your post Here was in some way a jab at me lol thats why i commented with that particular comment. when you have a post of me explaining" I ma teacher and somehow you need to go through Me to understand" youll have a basis to then make the judgement that i think im a teacher. when i am, explaining How this scripture applies, but this other one doesnt you can even call me a flase teacher if you wish. from the first thing i have ever written even in my first account, My message to share with others is remain in the 4 gospels, Learn them, Keep them and never let a teacher lead you to think they arent meant for you.

In other words Go to Jesus, abide dailoy in His Word learn all of the Bible, but build your foundation upon the real teacher, Jesus Christ and His teachings and understandings. that is the message of salvation that i share freely. people can ignore it, or believe it and it will always Lead them to the Words of Jesus Christ, because that is what Jesus says in those words i point peple to. I dont care if someone doesnt like or agree with that message, thats betwen them and the Lord, I personally learn something from many different people here who share the attitude that were all students, and share, and learn in order to Grow. when i find a true teacher in this world, i will still check thier teachings against Gods Word.


again im not saying one way or the pther about your hubby or His teachings He may well be annointed i wouldnt Know until i read what He teaches and compared that to the truth of God. i dont trust anyone based on where they were , what occupation they take up, what universuity credentials they have to show me. its wether they are teaching the principles of Gods word, and whether what they are teaching rewuires ommital of the rest or if it leads to acceptance of the rest.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Because honestly? One of the things that had me make this original request was you're teaching Hebrews. You might well know Hebrews enough to teach it, but I don't know who you are to know that. It would have been helpful to know how you felt qualified to teach Hebrews before teaching Hebrews.

Lynn,
I have been reading your posts and frankly you are going about this matter the wrong way. If this brother wants to share something from the book of Hebrews he is free to do so (as are you). He has not set himself up as a teacher, or claimed that he is the sole authority on this matter. And you do not need to know one single thing about his "qualifications". If what he says is supported by Scripture, well and good. If not, you just move on. But your antagonistic attitude will certainly not help you.

As to your husband, had he started teaching from Romans and not presented Bible truth, he would have heard about it from the others. However, if he presented Bible truth, then it would not matter if he was a mechanic or a plumber. A lot of the so-called Doctors of Divinity have no clue. They may use fancy words perhaps, but might not have anything substantial to say.

 

[followjesus]

Not be misunderstood? Christ's words are very plain. We all teach a little but none of us are to call ourselves teachers.

we also all Learn, and share that learning, and as we are sharing, we still learn more as we grow in the Knowledge of Jesus Christ, a Newborn doesnt learn How to drive a car yet, and a teenager isnt learning How to walk. an adult isnt learning to clean thier bedroom and a grandmother isnt learning about the pains of child bearing, while a Dad isnt learning How to be the baby of the House.

 

[posthuman]

In my freshman year of college, I took a 401 Anthropology course totally unaware that "401" meant senior year level, and it had prerequisites. I got in! (Why I got in remains a mystery to me to this day. lol)

i may know why you got in, actually.

it may have been to have the minimum people so that the class would run that semester!

my advisor had me take a course he taught on a very specialized algebra ((well, which specializes in being non-specialized haha)), before i took any prelims, and i never intended to take an algebra test at all. modern algebra is one of the basic fields of math that i know the least about, honestly, and he knew that, but he felt ((and he's right)) it would be covering some topics it would be good for me to be exposed to.
for that reason, plus, maybe importantly, there were only 3 other students signed up, and with that few, the college may have cancelled the class. it happens in summer courses a lot, that too few people sign up - and especially higher-level classes in departments that don't have a lot of grad students, and most especially, particularly esoteric courses, like that one on infinite-dimensional complex vector space analysis, a 3rd-year graduate math/physics class i took while i was just a junior in undergrad.. which only had a half-dozen people in it..

i don't know if you remember, but i'm curious about my theory here -- were there many people in Anthro ####-401?
my guess would be that for probably more than one reason, the professor was happy to have anyone who was interested attend

 

[posthuman]

Please note that no specialized training is required in scripture.

eh?

He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
(Titus 1:9)​

seems to me that holding to the sound doctrine a person has been taught with a grip on it firm enough to encourage, extol and argue for & against it rightly kinda implies that a person has had something we might today call "an education" in it.

riiight??

 

[Angela53510]

"Proud to be ignorant,"

summarizes the majority of people on this thread! Or perhaps it is,

"the Holy Spirit showed me, so I know it's true!"

Of course, if it really was the Holy Spirit, and not just a wave of emotionalism!

I studied the Bible for 25 years, reading it in English in different versions and French. I studied the Bible, I memorized the Bible, and I prayed. And God did teach me a lot. I took notes of sermons for years, but realized the pastors, especially of the non-denoms didn't know any more than I did.

God called me to seminary, and I didn't go. Because women can't be pastors, and I was a school teacher, didn't want to be a pastor anyway! Then the Word Faith people judged and condemned me when I got sick and wasn't healed. The woman had a Kenneth Copeland PhD she bought on line. So I guess the PhD does depend on the school. Did the person just pay money or did they really study the Bible?

Well, I thought these people knew the Bible and were led by the Holy Spirit. And if they were (or so I thought at the time, I now know how terribly and horribly dangerous and wrong their Word Faith heresy is) and if they were right, then God had abandoned me! End of story!

Except God gave me a second chance, led me to a church with an anointed SBC pastor, who knew the Word of God in a deep way. When he told the young men about going to seminary, God called me again. This time I obeyed!

I can't imagine what my life would be like if I had not obeyed the call. I learned and learned and learned. We studied the Scripture, but more important we learned how to correctly exegete the Bible, and do hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. Which is why most people here have no clue how to teach. Because they pull 1/4 of a verse out of context, and the result is a destructive heresy like Word Faith.

Willie, I have no idea where you went to Bible school, in theology, we learned ALL the viewpoints of different doctrines, and then we were told to pray, study, and find the truth. We also learned skills. like teaching, preaching and counselling. How to lead the congregation, and care for them, and lead people in discipleship. Oh, and read the actual text, in the original languages, instead of just translations.

The pastor in the church that inspired me to go to seminary got totally off track and stopped preaching the Bible after a bad throw off of a horse. People pleaded with him to go back to the Bible, but he also became arrogant and would not listen to anyone. I didn't try to correct him, as he would not have listened. So we found another church where the pastor did have a PhD. His preaching was superb! All the educated people in the congregation, doctors and lawyers, and former missionaries with all kinds of degrees got so much out of his sermons. But he wasn't highbrow! My best friend was from Peru, and learned English about 10 years earlier, but never got a good grasp of the language. She would always tell me what she learned, because he somehow had a way of making the message simple enough for immigrants to understand.

And he knew his congregation. It was a Baptist church, but a lot of people were raised in the church, no relationship with God or understanding of the Bible. He conducted the membership/baptism classes, because he wanted to make sure people really knew Christ, and they were following him.

And he spent a year preaching on prayer, right out of the Bible. He spent a year getting people to read the Bible daily. My husband had fallen away from Bible reading, and he got back into it, and is still reading it 3 years later. We did a chronological read through the Bible, which was a new one for me! I'm going to do it again when I finish this time.

So, how many people have really sat for more than a year under someone with a PhD? I have a feeling very few in this forum. Because the pastor I sat under helped me learn how to communicate God's Word, and really lead people to dig into the Bible on their own. And I learned how to be a better, clearer and simpler preacher from him.

An education doesn't guarantee someone will be led by the Holy Spirit. But as Lynn posted it does mean that person will be able to research, compare, critique, the text, and they will know how to put sentences and paragraphs together which quite a few people in this forum don't know how to do. Seminary will hopefully be a foundation of seeking God in prayer, and learning to rely on God for direction. Seminary was the best thing that happened to me, I'm so grateful God gave me a second chance to study his Word formally, to learn the Biblical backgrounds, languages and how to exegete the Word carefully and correctly. I wish everyone could go to a real, conservative seminary and learn what I learned. God has always given me a hunger to know and understand him in both learning and in wisdom. A good seminary should draw you closer to God, and into caring for God's people!

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15

For the record, I have an MDiv, and I am an ordained pastor. I plan on applying for my PhD next year, after I finish a few prerequisites.

 

[posthuman]

eh?

He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
(Titus 1:9)​

seems to me that holding to the sound doctrine a person has been taught with a grip on it firm enough to encourage, extol and argue for & against it rightly kinda implies that a person has had something we might today call "an education" in it.

riiight??

i mean, of course there were no "seminary institutions" in the first century AD. but what is a monastery, really? and what were "sessions" like with people like Paul, Apollos, Peter, Barnabas & others who went out visiting churches, speaking for hours and hours with all the new people -- wasn't this like "class" ? did Paul just show up and stay for a year in one place and expect to see people for just 20 mins a week, hopefully 2 or more weeks out of each month?
i have more of a "seminar" picture in my head - hours a day, for many days, packing in as much training and lecture and Q & A and practice as they could while the apostles and evangelists given grace to teach were available -- i.e. while the "semester" lasted. hmm wonder if "seminar" and "seminary" share any etymology..?

there are many benefits to the discipline of "formalized" training that seem obvious to me. yes, anyone can squander the opportunity a school provides, and foolishness in a heart isn't driven out just by exposure to knowledge, but i'm not comfortable on the basis of some objection to some particular viewpoint taught in some particular school poo-pooing gaining knowledge and understanding - the wisest man who ever lived ((who by the way in Ecclesiastes is referred to as "the teacher")) said that he "applied himself" to know wisdom and understanding, and to gain knowledge. i don't imagine that amounted to him locking himself in a prayer closet for fear that by interacting with & learning from other humans would 'taint' him.

 

[J7]

I only have 12 years of formalized Bible Study. And I had to spend almost that much time "unlearning" much of it.

Lol..chord

 

[graceNpeace]

"Proud to be ignorant,"

summarizes the majority of people on this thread! Or perhaps it is,

"the Holy Spirit showed me, so I know it's true!"

Of course, if it really was the Holy Spirit, and not just a wave of emotionalism!

I studied the Bible for 25 years, reading it in English in different versions and French. I studied the Bible, I memorized the Bible, and I prayed. And God did teach me a lot. I took notes of sermons for years, but realized the pastors, especially of the non-denoms didn't know any more than I did.

God called me to seminary, and I didn't go. Because women can't be pastors, and I was a school teacher, didn't want to be a pastor anyway! Then the Word Faith people judged and condemned me when I got sick and wasn't healed. The woman had a Kenneth Copeland PhD she bought on line. So I guess the PhD does depend on the school. Did the person just pay money or did they really study the Bible?

Well, I thought these people knew the Bible and were led by the Holy Spirit. And if they were (or so I thought at the time, I now know how terribly and horribly dangerous and wrong their Word Faith heresy is) and if they were right, then God had abandoned me! End of story!

Except God gave me a second chance, led me to a church with an anointed SBC pastor, who knew the Word of God in a deep way. When he told the young men about going to seminary, God called me again. This time I obeyed!

I can't imagine what my life would be like if I had not obeyed the call. I learned and learned and learned. We studied the Scripture, but more important we learned how to correctly exegete the Bible, and do hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. Which is why most people here have no clue how to teach. Because they pull 1/4 of a verse out of context, and the result is a destructive heresy like Word Faith.

Willie, I have no idea where you went to Bible school, in theology, we learned ALL the viewpoints of different doctrines, and then we were told to pray, study, and find the truth. We also learned skills. like teaching, preaching and counselling. How to lead the congregation, and care for them, and lead people in discipleship. Oh, and read the actual text, in the original languages, instead of just translations.

The pastor in the church that inspired me to go to seminary got totally off track and stopped preaching the Bible after a bad throw off of a horse. People pleaded with him to go back to the Bible, but he also became arrogant and would not listen to anyone. I didn't try to correct him, as he would not have listened. So we found another church where the pastor did have a PhD. His preaching was superb! All the educated people in the congregation, doctors and lawyers, and former missionaries with all kinds of degrees got so much out of his sermons. But he wasn't highbrow! My best friend was from Peru, and learned English about 10 years earlier, but never got a good grasp of the language. She would always tell me what she learned, because he somehow had a way of making the message simple enough for immigrants to understand.

And he knew his congregation. It was a Baptist church, but a lot of people were raised in the church, no relationship with God or understanding of the Bible. He conducted the membership/baptism classes, because he wanted to make sure people really knew Christ, and they were following him.

And he spent a year preaching on prayer, right out of the Bible. He spent a year getting people to read the Bible daily. My husband had fallen away from Bible reading, and he got back into it, and is still reading it 3 years later. We did a chronological read through the Bible, which was a new one for me! I'm going to do it again when I finish this time.

So, how many people have really sat for more than a year under someone with a PhD? I have a feeling very few in this forum. Because the pastor I sat under helped me learn how to communicate God's Word, and really lead people to dig into the Bible on their own. And I learned how to be a better, clearer and simpler preacher from him.

An education doesn't guarantee someone will be led by the Holy Spirit. But as Lynn posted it does mean that person will be able to research, compare, critique, the text, and they will know how to put sentences and paragraphs together which quite a few people in this forum don't know how to do. Seminary will hopefully be a foundation of seeking God in prayer, and learning to rely on God for direction. Seminary was the best thing that happened to me, I'm so grateful God gave me a second chance to study his Word formally, to learn the Biblical backgrounds, languages and how to exegete the Word carefully and correctly. I wish everyone could go to a real, conservative seminary and learn what I learned. God has always given me a hunger to know and understand him in both learning and in wisdom. A good seminary should draw you closer to God, and into caring for God's people!

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15

For the record, I have an MDiv, and I am an ordained pastor. I plan on applying for my PhD next year, after I finish a few prerequisites.

I really enjoyed reading this post!
To Angela: I really applaud your decision to go on to a PhD!

I would emphasise a point though:
University level education, particularly higher degrees is much less about the content than it is about acquiring the tools and skills to learn and research for yourself.
My education is predominantly in the biological sciences and medicine, but when I became a Christian, many but not all of the skills that I had translated very naturally to Bible study and theology.
It was also very easy to evaluate what skills and tools were missing and add to them.
This included Biblical languages.
Although I have done seminary Greek courses I have learnt much much more through my own study - both the grammar and its application in correctly exegeting the Word of God.

Someone, perhaps on this thread, or perhaps on another, made a point about their experiences with theologically trained individuals in Europe. European theological education, broadly speaking, is exceptionally liberal and people studying theology regard it purely as an academic exercise. In other parts of the world, although liberal theological education is available for those who want to pursue it, I personally have never met anyone seeking a theological education who did not have a deep personal relationship and commitment to Jesus Christ. No one I met ever wanted just the letters after their name - they wanted to serve God and the Church!
I also never saw anyone suffer a crisis of faith (not to say this cannot happen though) as a result of a theological education.

As for me the more I have learnt about God and the Bible the more convinced I am about the very real truth and current application of the Word of God to today's situation!

 

[posthuman]

An education doesn't guarantee someone will be led by the Holy Spirit. But as Lynn posted it does mean that person will be able to research, compare, critique, the text, and they will know how to put sentences and paragraphs together which quite a few people in this forum don't know how to do.

amen, someone was criticizing "phd's" earlier saying that universities try to pass them off as some kind of certification that a person is an expert -- well, there's truth to that notion. going through all the rigor and and discipline and the amount of focused time it takes to fully research, prepare and defend a dissertation, and additionally to collect all the background knowledge a person needs to do so intelligently, is an exercise in and demonstration of the "ability to learn" and to become an expert in a field. a school provides a formal, disciplined way to achieve this skill and lots of guidance and help along the way.

if i want to hire someone for a job, just on paper i immediately prefer a person who has been through secondary education to someone who hasn't, whether or not that education is in the right field, because it tells me that they are able to pick up new subject matter and skills and achieve a certain level of aptitude in them. "aptitude" is established by a degree -- all the things you said, Angela -- and more than that, the discipline to carry those things out

 

[Locutus]

I liked the way you fleshed that out bones...

 

[laura_charlotte]

A PhD is meaningless.

The only thing a PhD says about the recipient is that they were able to do the following:

1. Complete more coursework
2. Conceptualize a research project
3. Pass preliminary exams which test their knowledge of subject material and demonstrate they have the ability to carry out a research project
4. Complete a review of relevant literature of their topic area and write up those results
5. Collect data; analyze that data; interpret the results of the analysis; write up those results
6. Defend, orally, in front of a committee of learned professionals, the entirety of the research project

That's IT. The PhD says NOTHING about the ability of the recipient other than to say that person was able to endure more coursework and could oversee a research project. No expertise is needed whatsoever. Unfortunately, academia likes to portray people with PhDs as some sort of subject matter experts, and most of the time, that is not the case at all.

Now, for the other point you made. If I am knowledgeable about things, it is because I have read about them. My knowledge about most things in this world goes no further than the text books I have read. I have very little first-hand experience with most things in life, so my "knowledge" of a particular topic is mostly purely academic, and all I can do is parrot what other people have said.

On judgement day none of us can stand before God, stamp our foot and cry "Oh but God I have my doctorate in divinity! Oh but God I got this many reps and made this many posts on CC that therefore gives me an authority and pass matters!!" Ultimately the only thing we should be concerned with are the fruits of the spirit as believers. None of our earthly 'credentials' are going to get us anywhere not just when the time comes but in our conduct here on earth now.

As 1 Corinthians 13:1 so aptly teaches us "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." If it's a word from the Lord, that's our ultimate goal as Christians.

 

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first, i think you have missed what i said in the comment, second i have never claimed to be a teacher nor claimed myself to be anything but someone who follows the Lord Jesus with all i have in and without myself. the post im doing on Hebrews, is exactly what i said in the comment Here on your thread. its sharing whats there in Gods Word. and sharing what I myself see in it, not telling anyone what it says, but proividing the scripture themselves, along side the things i myself see that really dont take a speacial lense, or rewuire anyone to look through my view, but simply look at the scriptures themselves.


i do not consider myself anything, teacher, pastor, wiseman, prophet oir any other Label// in this instance, im someone of many in a Bible discussion forum, sharing scripture that others may not Have really studied or others may Have missed something, OR be ables to point me to something i have missed. which is the reason the book has been presented thusr far as it is written. many times over I have made clear I do noit consider myself a teacher or anything even of consequence to another. the Only value I have to anyone is to point them to the Word of God to find out for themselves, so they arent depending on someone telling them " this is whats there" and then offering thier own view and a couple out of context scriptures like many so called " teachers" do.


I will never write a " revolutionary" book that reveals How to see Gods Word, because my foundational Belief is that Gods Word is perfectly Designed By God, for man to learn and Know and seek after for themselves. This doesnt mean in a place Like a Bible discussion forum, we shouldnt share the things we have learned openly offering them freely. Nor should we be explaining what aplies and doesnt Because Gods Word does that for itself, to those who seek after Him through His Word, and prayer.


I dont Know your hubby, and never have read anything He teaches from romans so i have no place making any Judgements, if i were to read His teachings, i would then simply see if what He is teaching, is what the scripture is teaching, i would not take any mans word for it, i always compare whats being said, to the scripture as a whole, in the context of scripture. I believe its a wise thing to do, rather than following a certain teacher, always hear what they are saying, and then go to the source they are claiming to be teaching. Bibles are readily available so that we dont need to follow anyone.


Your hubby may be a wonderful teacher, like i said i dont Know because ive never read a word He has taught. if what He is teaching doesnt require me to omit Gods Word, and agrees with it, id say Hes probably a good annointed teacher. if Hes explaining why the gospel isnt for me because of a few scriptures in romans id say Hes probably Not a teacher called of God. the proof and ultimate North is the scripture.


I sort of already Knew your post Here was in some way a jab at me lol thats why i commented with that particular comment. when you have a post of me explaining" I ma teacher and somehow you need to go through Me to understand" youll have a basis to then make the judgement that i think im a teacher. when i am, explaining How this scripture applies, but this other one doesnt you can even call me a flase teacher if you wish. from the first thing i have ever written even in my first account, My message to share with others is remain in the 4 gospels, Learn them, Keep them and never let a teacher lead you to think they arent meant for you.

In other words Go to Jesus, abide dailoy in His Word learn all of the Bible, but build your foundation upon the real teacher, Jesus Christ and His teachings and understandings. that is the message of salvation that i share freely. people can ignore it, or believe it and it will always Lead them to the Words of Jesus Christ, because that is what Jesus says in those words i point peple to. I dont care if someone doesnt like or agree with that message, thats betwen them and the Lord, I personally learn something from many different people here who share the attitude that were all students, and share, and learn in order to Grow. when i find a true teacher in this world, i will still check thier teachings against Gods Word.


again im not saying one way or the pther about your hubby or His teachings He may well be annointed i wouldnt Know until i read what He teaches and compared that to the truth of God. i dont trust anyone based on where they were , what occupation they take up, what universuity credentials they have to show me. its wether they are teaching the principles of Gods word, and whether what they are teaching rewuires ommital of the rest or if it leads to acceptance of the rest.

English isn't what it used to be.

Request = jab.
Sharing what I learn and telling what I believe = not teaching.

Sorry. I'm no good at reinventing words that already have definitions into new words.

Something as simply as "I've been studying this book for the last couple of months, and want to tell you what I see" is way too much effort?

Yup. Heaven forbid anyone understands where someone is coming from first. Way too much common sense.

Silly me.

Good thing I've figured it out. The forum has clearly taught me that there is only one who is right, and that one is always the person telling everyone else what's right about them -- everyone, just about.

Common sense is too hard. I don't get it but I understand I've just asked way too much.