A Request to the Teachers

[Depleted]

Lynn,
I have been reading your posts and frankly you are going about this matter the wrong way. If this brother wants to share something from the book of Hebrews he is free to do so (as are you). He has not set himself up as a teacher, or claimed that he is the sole authority on this matter. And you do not need to know one single thing about his "qualifications". If what he says is supported by Scripture, well and good. If not, you just move on. But your antagonistic attitude will certainly not help you.

As to your husband, had he started teaching from Romans and not presented Bible truth, he would have heard about it from the others. However, if he presented Bible truth, then it would not matter if he was a mechanic or a plumber. A lot of the so-called Doctors of Divinity have no clue. They may use fancy words perhaps, but might not have anything substantial to say.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. How have I surveyed all my life without you reinterpreting what I say (wrongly) and then telling me exactly how I should think?

 

[Depleted]

On judgement day none of us can stand before God, stamp our foot and cry "Oh but God I have my doctorate in divinity! Oh but God I got this many reps and made this many posts on CC that therefore gives me an authority and pass matters!!" Ultimately the only thing we should be concerned with are the fruits of the spirit as believers. None of our earthly 'credentials' are going to get us anywhere not just when the time comes but in our conduct here on earth now.

As 1 Corinthians 13:1 so aptly teaches us "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." If it's a word from the Lord, that's our ultimate goal as Christians.

Speaking of clanging cymbal. Yours is going overtime. Is his capability of thinking just too much for you to bare, so you have to "correct him," even when he doesn't need correction? *And he's not getting his doctrine in divinity, but you're afraid me might.)

Clang clang clang goes the cymbal.

 

[Nehemiah6]

wait - does that mean we need to chase down everyone who calls us names and make them stop?

Not at all. But if someone comes up to you and says "Rabbi Posthuman, could you kindly help me with this passage?" You would need to tell him "Christ has forbidden Christians from calling their brethren Rabbi, Reverend, Doctor, Father, Master, or any such clerical title. I am simple Brother Posthuman, just as Paul was simply Brother Paul".

 

[joaniemarie]

"Proud to be ignorant,"

summarizes the majority of people on this thread! Or perhaps it is,

"the Holy Spirit showed me, so I know it's true!"

Of course, if it really was the Holy Spirit, and not just a wave of emotionalism!

I studied the Bible for 25 years, reading it in English in different versions and French. I studied the Bible, I memorized the Bible, and I prayed. And God did teach me a lot. I took notes of sermons for years, but realized the pastors, especially of the non-denoms didn't know any more than I did.

God called me to seminary, and I didn't go. Because women can't be pastors, and I was a school teacher, didn't want to be a pastor anyway! Then the Word Faith people judged and condemned me when I got sick and wasn't healed. The woman had a Kenneth Copeland PhD she bought on line. So I guess the PhD does depend on the school. Did the person just pay money or did they really study the Bible?

Well, I thought these people knew the Bible and were led by the Holy Spirit. And if they were (or so I thought at the time, I now know how terribly and horribly dangerous and wrong their Word Faith heresy is) and if they were right, then God had abandoned me! End of story!

Except God gave me a second chance, led me to a church with an anointed SBC pastor, who knew the Word of God in a deep way. When he told the young men about going to seminary, God called me again. This time I obeyed!

I can't imagine what my life would be like if I had not obeyed the call. I learned and learned and learned. We studied the Scripture, but more important we learned how to correctly exegete the Bible, and do hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. Which is why most people here have no clue how to teach. Because they pull 1/4 of a verse out of context, and the result is a destructive heresy like Word Faith.

Willie, I have no idea where you went to Bible school, in theology, we learned ALL the viewpoints of different doctrines, and then we were told to pray, study, and find the truth. We also learned skills. like teaching, preaching and counselling. How to lead the congregation, and care for them, and lead people in discipleship. Oh, and read the actual text, in the original languages, instead of just translations.

The pastor in the church that inspired me to go to seminary got totally off track and stopped preaching the Bible after a bad throw off of a horse. People pleaded with him to go back to the Bible, but he also became arrogant and would not listen to anyone. I didn't try to correct him, as he would not have listened. So we found another church where the pastor did have a PhD. His preaching was superb! All the educated people in the congregation, doctors and lawyers, and former missionaries with all kinds of degrees got so much out of his sermons. But he wasn't highbrow! My best friend was from Peru, and learned English about 10 years earlier, but never got a good grasp of the language. She would always tell me what she learned, because he somehow had a way of making the message simple enough for immigrants to understand.

And he knew his congregation. It was a Baptist church, but a lot of people were raised in the church, no relationship with God or understanding of the Bible. He conducted the membership/baptism classes, because he wanted to make sure people really knew Christ, and they were following him.

And he spent a year preaching on prayer, right out of the Bible. He spent a year getting people to read the Bible daily. My husband had fallen away from Bible reading, and he got back into it, and is still reading it 3 years later. We did a chronological read through the Bible, which was a new one for me! I'm going to do it again when I finish this time.

So, how many people have really sat for more than a year under someone with a PhD? I have a feeling very few in this forum. Because the pastor I sat under helped me learn how to communicate God's Word, and really lead people to dig into the Bible on their own. And I learned how to be a better, clearer and simpler preacher from him.

An education doesn't guarantee someone will be led by the Holy Spirit. But as Lynn posted it does mean that person will be able to research, compare, critique, the text, and they will know how to put sentences and paragraphs together which quite a few people in this forum don't know how to do. Seminary will hopefully be a foundation of seeking God in prayer, and learning to rely on God for direction. Seminary was the best thing that happened to me, I'm so grateful God gave me a second chance to study his Word formally, to learn the Biblical backgrounds, languages and how to exegete the Word carefully and correctly. I wish everyone could go to a real, conservative seminary and learn what I learned. God has always given me a hunger to know and understand him in both learning and in wisdom. A good seminary should draw you closer to God, and into caring for God's people!

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15

For the record, I have an MDiv, and I am an ordained pastor. I plan on applying for my PhD next year, after I finish a few prerequisites.

And yet... with all that you wrote here about your education and exposure and training in Bible study., enough so you are now teaching the Bible yourself because you have an MDiv., and you're an ordained pastor planning on applying for a PhD., you still have not yet learned about simple forgiveness for the Word of faith Christians who wronged you so many years ago...

 

[stillness]

"Let no man turn you away from the simplicity of Christ," remaining in prayer that you enter not into temptation, to show how cleaver you are. People in trouble don't need a lecture and "pride goes before a fall." Consider the danger we are in as common ground to gain: to learn meekness, to be tamed as friends of God, to be moved by His compassion and comfort the week, and have His humility to prepare us for the time of trouble, examining ourselves, that we are in faith that works by Love and not presumption; mindful that we are vulnerable to think we know and stop learning. "If any man thinks he knows he does not know as he should."

 

[laura_charlotte]

Thankyou for the reps, so glad the messages reached you all.

 

[followjesus]

English isn't what it used to be.

Request = jab.
Sharing what I learn and telling what I believe = not teaching.

Sorry. I'm no good at reinventing words that already have definitions into new words.

Something as simply as "I've been studying this book for the last couple of months, and want to tell you what I see" is way too much effort?

Yup. Heaven forbid anyone understands where someone is coming from first. Way too much common sense.

Silly me.

Good thing I've figured it out. The forum has clearly taught me that there is only one who is right, and that one is always the person telling everyone else what's right about them -- everyone, just about.

Common sense is too hard. I don't get it but I understand I've just asked way too much.

can i ask you a question, and Honestly have you answer it?


Do you EVER step back and look at your words to other people at all? and are you capable of understanding what someone else actually says ?


you said clearly " Because honestly? One of the things that had me make this original request was you're teaching Hebrews."

i usually purposely avoid your threads I find them rather toxic and seem to most always promote cotroversy and argument, Judgements made towards others. Veiled personal attacks lol i Only responded to this one because i already Knew that " My teaching Hebrews was at least part of your motivation" ive actually noticed more than this time your reaction to peoples threads, and you always base them on a strange perception and they are always thick with Judgements you have made within your head.


you should Hinestly consider things rather than operating the way you do. thats Just my unwarranted opinion though. i usually avoid yur threads completely, for the singular purpose of avoiding the confrontations that are inevitable in a conversation with you. qualifications of man to man, mean zero, all the things mankind has come up with to structure things concerning Gods Word are a result of this including the vast majority of seminaries and bible colleges. all One needs is a heart that seeks after God through His written Word, and prayer having the Knowledge found in the 4 gospels that include the cross. all of the rest or anything that doesnt go that route is a result of this


2 timothy 4:I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."


thats what the many teachers of today are a result of that was pauls final Letter to His beloved timothy, Just before His death before Nero. that time has long came and its evidence is throughout the " church" its about preaching THE WORD has been and will be. we will never come up with a different way than that wich Jesus Christ made clear

matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


there is no new teaching coming Our only place is to follow the Lords Word, and share the Lords Word.


Im done with this thread though, i probably should have done what i have since i met you and Just ignored the toxicity.


all that said I hope you and Hubby are well and blessed

 

[posthuman]

Not at all. But if someone comes up to you and says "Rabbi Posthuman, could you kindly help me with this passage?" You would need to tell him "Christ has forbidden Christians from calling their brethren Rabbi, Reverend, Doctor, Father, Master, or any such clerical title. I am simple Brother Posthuman, just as Paul was simply Brother Paul".

that seems to be about what i call myself -- i could restate what you said more concisely by saying "i'm no rabbi; the Lord is our only teacher"

which is good news, because being held accountable for what everyone else calls you seems pretty burdensome!

 

[1ofthem]

Maybe we should. But it isn't happening. Instead, you hinted that everyone always knows while I see example after example of "not a clue."

I only answered your question ...How do we know the anointing of God? I didn't hint to anything else.

To know the Spirit with have to walk in the Spirit.

 

[posthuman]

And yet... with all that you wrote here about your education and exposure and training in Bible study., enough so you are now teaching the Bible yourself because you have an MDiv., and you're an ordained pastor planning on applying for a PhD., you still have not yet learned about simple forgiveness for the Word of faith Christians who wronged you so many years ago...

_____________________

 

[1ofthem]

God chooses whom he will to preach, teach, etc. and he set forth the qualifications... not man.

Preaching, teaching, is gifts of the Spirit and God is the one who chooses who to give the gift to. God is still doing the anointing and choosing, just as he chose to anoint David just a little shepherd boy to be king. God doesn't look on the countenance or stature of men, he looks on the heart.

1 Samuel 16: 6-13
[FONT=&quot] And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the Lord's anointed is before him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 Then Jesse called Abinadab, and made him pass before Samuel. And he said, Neither hath the Lord chosen this.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said, Neither hath the Lord chosen this.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The Lord hath not chosen these.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.[/FONT]
13 [FONT=&quot]Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.[/FONT]

 

[posthuman]

God chose the man, and at His command Samuel anointed him king of Israel.

God also equips, and instructs - just as Jesus, when He chose the twelve, told them follow me, and as He said to us all, come, take my yoke and learn of me.

these aren't examples of *poof!* auto-preparadeness engaged!
they are examples of steps being diligently followed

 

[posthuman]

Now it shall come about when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, he shall write for himself a copy of this law on a scroll in the presence of the Levitical priests. It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes, that his heart may not be lifted up above his countrymen and that he may not turn aside from the commandment, to the right or the left, so that he and his sons may continue long in his kingdom in the midst of Israel.
(Deuteronomy 17:18-20)​

 

[Depleted]

i may know why you got in, actually.

it may have been to have the minimum people so that the class would run that semester!

my advisor had me take a course he taught on a very specialized algebra ((well, which specializes in being non-specialized haha)), before i took any prelims, and i never intended to take an algebra test at all. modern algebra is one of the basic fields of math that i know the least about, honestly, and he knew that, but he felt ((and he's right)) it would be covering some topics it would be good for me to be exposed to.
for that reason, plus, maybe importantly, there were only 3 other students signed up, and with that few, the college may have cancelled the class. it happens in summer courses a lot, that too few people sign up - and especially higher-level classes in departments that don't have a lot of grad students, and most especially, particularly esoteric courses, like that one on infinite-dimensional complex vector space analysis, a 3rd-year graduate math/physics class i took while i was just a junior in undergrad.. which only had a half-dozen people in it..

i don't know if you remember, but i'm curious about my theory here -- were there many people in Anthro ####-401?
my guess would be that for probably more than one reason, the professor was happy to have anyone who was interested attend

It was roughly the size of most smaller classes in that college. Roughly 25-35 students. I remember the prof asking which kind of society America had, and being the only student in the class who could answer. (Matriarchal. Mid 70s, so most families had Dad working and Mom taking care of the home front.) But there was an assumption that I was already supposed to know everything about Margaret Mead, and she was only a footnote in history class, so I quit after the first class. The class didn't fold after I left.

 

[1ofthem]

Yeah, the word of God says study to show yourself approved...but that can be done right in your living room. Nowhere in the Bible does it say go to a Baptist, Pentecostal, Church of God, or what have you, Bible college and get a degree and then you will be anointed to teach and preach. God is the teacher and we need to learn from him, and he can use whomever he wants whenever he wants.

I am not against education. I have a degree myself, but not in Bible studies. The only one I want grading me on spiritual things is God.

 

[1ofthem]

Galatians 1: 11-17

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

---Paul the Apostle

 

[posthuman]

---Paul the Apostle

is Paul the scriptural example of a "normal" conversion experience and gift?

we can find plenty of examples of people in scripture prophesying and teaching who we're specifically told didn't have the equivalent of an educational background that prepared them for what they were doing, but how many believers, how many faithful Israelites, how many people approved by God can we find examples of who sat at someone's feet and learned from them? is the Ethiopian in Acts 8 the only one?







((qualification: i know to ask this question, because i listened to the audio of a teacher on the radio who explained this to me))

 

[posthuman]

maybe the question is,

"is there a time & purpose for Bible & theological education?"

 

[1ofthem]

is Paul the scriptural example of a "normal" conversion experience and gift?

we can find plenty of examples of people in scripture prophesying and teaching who we're specifically told didn't have the equivalent of an educational background that prepared them for what they were doing, but how many believers, how many faithful Israelites, how many people approved by God can we find examples of who sat at someone's feet and learned from them? is the Ethiopian in Acts 8 the only one?







((qualification: i know to ask this question, because i listened to the audio of a teacher on the radio who explained this to me))

I'm not saying that we can't learn from others. God uses people to teach others all the time. What I am saying is that we need to know God for ourselves and let him teach us. We can learn directly from God just like the Apostle Paul, and God can also use anyone he chooses to teach us no matter what educational background they have.

 

[Depleted]

"Proud to be ignorant,"

summarizes the majority of people on this thread! Or perhaps it is,

"the Holy Spirit showed me, so I know it's true!"

Of course, if it really was the Holy Spirit, and not just a wave of emotionalism!

I studied the Bible for 25 years, reading it in English in different versions and French. I studied the Bible, I memorized the Bible, and I prayed. And God did teach me a lot. I took notes of sermons for years, but realized the pastors, especially of the non-denoms didn't know any more than I did.

God called me to seminary, and I didn't go. Because women can't be pastors, and I was a school teacher, didn't want to be a pastor anyway! Then the Word Faith people judged and condemned me when I got sick and wasn't healed. The woman had a Kenneth Copeland PhD she bought on line. So I guess the PhD does depend on the school. Did the person just pay money or did they really study the Bible?

Well, I thought these people knew the Bible and were led by the Holy Spirit. And if they were (or so I thought at the time, I now know how terribly and horribly dangerous and wrong their Word Faith heresy is) and if they were right, then God had abandoned me! End of story!

Except God gave me a second chance, led me to a church with an anointed SBC pastor, who knew the Word of God in a deep way. When he told the young men about going to seminary, God called me again. This time I obeyed!

I can't imagine what my life would be like if I had not obeyed the call. I learned and learned and learned. We studied the Scripture, but more important we learned how to correctly exegete the Bible, and do hermeneutics or Bible interpretation. Which is why most people here have no clue how to teach. Because they pull 1/4 of a verse out of context, and the result is a destructive heresy like Word Faith.

Willie, I have no idea where you went to Bible school, in theology, we learned ALL the viewpoints of different doctrines, and then we were told to pray, study, and find the truth. We also learned skills. like teaching, preaching and counselling. How to lead the congregation, and care for them, and lead people in discipleship. Oh, and read the actual text, in the original languages, instead of just translations.

The pastor in the church that inspired me to go to seminary got totally off track and stopped preaching the Bible after a bad throw off of a horse. People pleaded with him to go back to the Bible, but he also became arrogant and would not listen to anyone. I didn't try to correct him, as he would not have listened. So we found another church where the pastor did have a PhD. His preaching was superb! All the educated people in the congregation, doctors and lawyers, and former missionaries with all kinds of degrees got so much out of his sermons. But he wasn't highbrow! My best friend was from Peru, and learned English about 10 years earlier, but never got a good grasp of the language. She would always tell me what she learned, because he somehow had a way of making the message simple enough for immigrants to understand.

And he knew his congregation. It was a Baptist church, but a lot of people were raised in the church, no relationship with God or understanding of the Bible. He conducted the membership/baptism classes, because he wanted to make sure people really knew Christ, and they were following him.

And he spent a year preaching on prayer, right out of the Bible. He spent a year getting people to read the Bible daily. My husband had fallen away from Bible reading, and he got back into it, and is still reading it 3 years later. We did a chronological read through the Bible, which was a new one for me! I'm going to do it again when I finish this time.

So, how many people have really sat for more than a year under someone with a PhD? I have a feeling very few in this forum. Because the pastor I sat under helped me learn how to communicate God's Word, and really lead people to dig into the Bible on their own. And I learned how to be a better, clearer and simpler preacher from him.

An education doesn't guarantee someone will be led by the Holy Spirit. But as Lynn posted it does mean that person will be able to research, compare, critique, the text, and they will know how to put sentences and paragraphs together which quite a few people in this forum don't know how to do. Seminary will hopefully be a foundation of seeking God in prayer, and learning to rely on God for direction. Seminary was the best thing that happened to me, I'm so grateful God gave me a second chance to study his Word formally, to learn the Biblical backgrounds, languages and how to exegete the Word carefully and correctly. I wish everyone could go to a real, conservative seminary and learn what I learned. God has always given me a hunger to know and understand him in both learning and in wisdom. A good seminary should draw you closer to God, and into caring for God's people!

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15

For the record, I have an MDiv, and I am an ordained pastor. I plan on applying for my PhD next year, after I finish a few prerequisites.

The thing that got me excited about my denomination is the Teaching Elders (and Ruling Elders) is they read Van Til, John Owen, Loraine Boetter, and Gordon Clark -- AND understood them. Better yet, they could tell me what those guys learned in words I could understand.

One of the guys that could do that for me was James Boice. He spoke normal-American, (as in The Twilight Zone, Jay Leno, and subway rides were routinely part of his sermons), but in ways that made me understand God that way. He had a Th.D.

Education is a good thing. Translating it into words we uneducated can get is priceless.

I get people with degrees, or, particularly, advanced degrees can scare people. They scare me. But when they can talk like us, and yet, explain what they've learned in ways we understand? If that's not heaven, it's paradise!

I want to learn all I can from the Bible. I know I have eternity, but eternity started in 1972 for me, and I've still so much more to learn. BUT, I'm not a genius. I don't have what it takes to get a PhD. To have someone explain what they learned in words I can understand is fantastic!

On the other side, for someone who hasn't studied the bible at all, hasn't even really ever read it, once more, studied it, I'm tired of being bamboozled into thinking they know what they're talking about until I get to the fifth paragraph, or the fifth post on a thread, or their 50th post.

I'm happy to listen to a 10th grader who just studied Hosea over the last month teach me what I probably missed when I studied it. I hate wasting my time listening to someone who doesn't even know it's a book in the Bible try to teach me God's relationship with Man without knowing that. Whether that person has a high school diploma or three PhDs in Quantum Physics, Computer Coding, and refinery architecture.

I really thought "I've been studying this part of the Bible for the last couple of months" wasn't too much to ask, before someone starts explaining (aka "teaching") something they think they know.