A Request to the Teachers

[Depleted]

amen, someone was criticizing "phd's" earlier saying that universities try to pass them off as some kind of certification that a person is an expert -- well, there's truth to that notion. going through all the rigor and and discipline and the amount of focused time it takes to fully research, prepare and defend a dissertation, and additionally to collect all the background knowledge a person needs to do so intelligently, is an exercise in and demonstration of the "ability to learn" and to become an expert in a field. a school provides a formal, disciplined way to achieve this skill and lots of guidance and help along the way.

if i want to hire someone for a job, just on paper i immediately prefer a person who has been through secondary education to someone who hasn't, whether or not that education is in the right field, because it tells me that they are able to pick up new subject matter and skills and achieve a certain level of aptitude in them. "aptitude" is established by a degree -- all the things you said, Angela -- and more than that, the discipline to carry those things out

Just in case you ever find yourself in a position to hire people. (And not much connected to this thread at all. lol)

As you can tell from the person's academic education background that he/she did have the ability to adapt and learn in new ways, consider the same thing for people with skill trades.

I graduated after four years of college. My husband has had much more post-high school education that I can even imagine wanting to have.
-- half a year of training in the Navy (including 3 months of photography school.)
-- 18 months at an HVAC tech school. (Since he was working on heaters in the day too, his then-wife had to wiggle out of his grip in the middle of night, as he dreamed of ways to install a heater, and mistook her arm for a pipe. lol)
-- One semester at college full time.
-- So many seminars on things like asbestos removal, blue-flame heaters, workplace safety, etc.
-- 13 months learning computer networking.

We've changed each other's minds on education. When he was growing up, education wasn't important to his family, so he really never thought about going to college, until he broke his back and couldn't go back to fixing heaters. If we had kids, he wanted to make sure each child went to college. After learning how much more he learned without college, I was hoping they'd bee more interested in going into the trades.

I am sure of one thing though. Knowing how God works, if we had kids, they would have chosen a different path than either one of us wanted for them. And it would have been good. lol

 

[Depleted]

And yet... with all that you wrote here about your education and exposure and training in Bible study., enough so you are now teaching the Bible yourself because you have an MDiv., and you're an ordained pastor planning on applying for a PhD., you still have not yet learned about simple forgiveness for the Word of faith Christians who wronged you so many years ago...

Bad theology -- false theology -- is something to forgive? Or is it just that now that they are no longer trying to convince her she doesn't trust God enough so they're on to younger and more vulnerable stooges, it's time to forgive them?

If a serial rapist rapes victim #2, should the target of rape forgive, because he's onto victim #20 by now?

Personally, I haven't considered forgiving a WoFer because I'm too busy trying to get them stopped from bringing down more and more new Christians. I think I might be able to forgive if I have time to catch my breath before you go to the next and next and next victim with your false god. I'm too busy warning the next targets to have time to forgive.

Amazing! You say you aren't out to argue, and yet, that's exactly what you've done twice now. And you say others should forgive, when you haven't shown an ounce of forgiveness yourself.

Being a predator doesn't make you a good guy.

 

[Depleted]

can i ask you a question, and Honestly have you answer it?


Do you EVER step back and look at your words to other people at all? and are you capable of understanding what someone else actually says ?


you said clearly " Because honestly? One of the things that had me make this original request was you're teaching Hebrews."

i usually purposely avoid your threads I find them rather toxic and seem to most always promote cotroversy and argument, Judgements made towards others. Veiled personal attacks lol i Only responded to this one because i already Knew that " My teaching Hebrews was at least part of your motivation" ive actually noticed more than this time your reaction to peoples threads, and you always base them on a strange perception and they are always thick with Judgements you have made within your head.


you should Hinestly consider things rather than operating the way you do. thats Just my unwarranted opinion though. i usually avoid yur threads completely, for the singular purpose of avoiding the confrontations that are inevitable in a conversation with you. qualifications of man to man, mean zero, all the things mankind has come up with to structure things concerning Gods Word are a result of this including the vast majority of seminaries and bible colleges. all One needs is a heart that seeks after God through His written Word, and prayer having the Knowledge found in the 4 gospels that include the cross. all of the rest or anything that doesnt go that route is a result of this


2 timothy 4:I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."


thats what the many teachers of today are a result of that was pauls final Letter to His beloved timothy, Just before His death before Nero. that time has long came and its evidence is throughout the " church" its about preaching THE WORD has been and will be. we will never come up with a different way than that wich Jesus Christ made clear

matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


there is no new teaching coming Our only place is to follow the Lords Word, and share the Lords Word.


Im done with this thread though, i probably should have done what i have since i met you and Just ignored the toxicity.


all that said I hope you and Hubby are well and blessed

One obvious question, why ask anything if you have no intention of listening to the answer?

 

[Depleted]

I'm not saying that we can't learn from others. God uses people to teach others all the time. What I am saying is that we need to know God for ourselves and let him teach us. We can learn directly from God just like the Apostle Paul, and God can also use anyone he chooses to teach us no matter what educational background they have.

Paul was a Pharisee. That means he grew up learning the Law and the OT and continued studying it as an adult. Granted, it meant something completely different to him until that day on the road to Damascus, but he did know it. And what God changed about him fit into what he knew so well, he explained it perfectly -- inspired by God. We know it today as The Book of Romans.

So, yeah, once again, God used an educated man for his purposes. He didn't just poof the info into Paul.

And he even passed on what to do to the next generations when he wrote to Timothy the second time:
[FONT=&quot]"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."[/FONT]

 

[1ofthem]

Paul was a Pharisee. That means he grew up learning the Law and the OT and continued studying it as an adult. Granted, it meant something completely different to him until that day on the road to Damascus, but he did know it. And what God changed about him fit into what he knew so well, he explained it perfectly -- inspired by God. We know it today as The Book of Romans.

So, yeah, once again, God used an educated man for his purposes. He didn't just poof the info into Paul.

And he even passed on what to do to the next generations when he wrote to Timothy the second time:
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."

I get what you are saying, and I am in no way saying that we shouldn't study the word of God because he will just poof it into us. We are encouraged to study the word of God, but in my opinion this doesn't have to be in some type of school setting earning a degree. God teaches us if we listen to him and allow him to do so. The Spirit and the Word of God go hand in hand and that is how we learn of God through the Spirit and the Word.

As for Paul the Apostle, he didn't preach the old testament and the law. He taught the new covenant and Jesus Christ our Savior. In the post that I made earlier, you can see how he said he wasn't taught it by any man, but by direct revelation.

He said this about his previous life...He counted it but dung....

Philippians 3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

 

[1ofthem]

I am not saying that God won't use or anoint educated people. I'm just saying that I don't think that he is looking for any fancy degree when anointing folks. God chooses whom to anoint and he also chooses what calling to put in each or our lives. Not all will be teachers and preachers.

I can say he definitely didn't call me to be a teacher or preacher, and I am glad that he didn't. However, if I wanted to be a preacher and I wasn't called to do so... no college education around is going to make me a preacher...that's just how it is...God chooses our calling, and he sets us all up in the body as he sees fit. If we want to be the hand but we are the ear, we cannot complain or try and go to college to become the hand... can we? It takes the anointing of God.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

I am reminded of a quote attributed to Einstein. It seems appropriate. Speaking personally, as I have been putting together the acknowledgement page for my dissertation, I was deliberate in mentioning that I learned more from the lessons of life these past ten years than I did from the coursework and the research project.

[h=1]“Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school.”[/h]

 

[slave]

Paul was a Pharisee. That means he grew up learning the Law and the OT and continued studying it as an adult. Granted, it meant something completely different to him until that day on the road to Damascus, but he did know it.

You're learned, correct? I have a question then for you: Do we understand spiritual truths before our spirit is enlivened? When you say, Paul, did know them, in reference to the Pharisee's teachings, and the Law, and OT passages, were you saying He was divinely insightful to the teachings then before the road to Damascus? If he was not divinely inspired in those facts then, did he not maintain different conclusions about those facts therefore?

Let me ask you another question, why is "righteousness" imperative to teaching facts? What, then, does the mind of Christ mean? How does that develop, and when do we receive it?

 

[Meggido]

He didn't just poof the info into Paul.

The Bible says Jesus did in fact "poof the info into Paul".....

Gal 1.11-12

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.


Maybe if you spent more time in personal Bible study with the Holy Spirit and less time listening to educated Pontificating Church elder teachers and less time on this site ripping peoples faces off when they disagree with your childish topics and rants you might understand more of the Bible you want people to think you know about....

 

[joaniemarie]

Bad theology -- false theology -- is something to forgive? Or is it just that now that they are no longer trying to convince her she doesn't trust God enough so they're on to younger and more vulnerable stooges, it's time to forgive them?

If a serial rapist rapes victim #2, should the target of rape forgive, because he's onto victim #20 by now?

Personally, I haven't considered forgiving a WoFer because I'm too busy trying to get them stopped from bringing down more and more new Christians. I think I might be able to forgive if I have time to catch my breath before you go to the next and next and next victim with your false god. I'm too busy warning the next targets to have time to forgive.

Amazing! You say you aren't out to argue, and yet, that's exactly what you've done twice now. And you say others should forgive, when you haven't shown an ounce of forgiveness yourself.

Being a predator doesn't make you a good guy.

Most of the time I totally avoid your threads too. But sometimes there is an opportunity to say a word at the right time and I do that occasionally. I have been on the other side of yours and Angela's scathing posts so I do know what I'm talking about. And apparently so do some others here. And also, we are here to learn so I believe we can do that without scathing posts.

Being likened to a "serial rapist" and a "predator" in your posts is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Your anger and misguided theology is something that needs to be addressed on occasion. That is a good thing and we can take or leave it. We here are called out all the time about our behavior. Disagreeing with you and others doesn't mean I'm desiring to argue. We are here in this Bible study forum to be challenged about ourselves and about what we believe and how we believe.

For all the talk about wanting to learn about the Bible the question that needs to be asked is; why have you and Angela not taken care of the unforgiveness you are obviously carrying?

You freely admit that you are carrying un forgiveness and yet you believe you can teach others about theology when you have not yet learned about the beautiful simplicity of forgiveness in Christ for the brethren? That is the subject here isn't it? A teacher is not worthy of being listened to if they can't even fathom the idea of forgiving others in the household of faith. All the Greek and Latin Bible learning will not amount to a hill of beans if a believers heart harbors seething anger and un forgiveness.

This is not just for you Depleted, it's something all of us have to consider when we discuss the Bible here or anywhere. If someone is not in agreement with us about Bible interpretation we have no right to denounce them. But that happens all to often here.

 

[laura_charlotte]

can i ask you a question, and Honestly have you answer it?


Do you EVER step back and look at your words to other people at all? and are you capable of understanding what someone else actually says ?


i usually purposely avoid your threads I find them rather toxic and seem to most always promote cotroversy and argument, Judgements made towards others. Veiled personal attacks lol i Only responded to this one because i already Knew that " My teaching Hebrews was at least part of your motivation" ive actually noticed more than this time your reaction to peoples threads, and you always base them on a strange perception and they are always thick with Judgements you have made within your head.


you should Hinestly consider things rather than operating the way you do. i usually avoid yur threads completely, for the singular purpose of avoiding the confrontations that are inevitable in a conversation with you. qualifications of man to man, mean zero, all the things mankind has come up with to structure things concerning Gods Word are a result of this including the vast majority of seminaries and bible colleges. all One needs is a heart that seeks after God through His written Word, and prayer having the Knowledge found in the 4 gospels that include the cross. all of the rest or anything that doesnt go that route is a result of this


2 timothy 4:I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."


thats what the many teachers of today are a result of that was pauls final Letter to His beloved timothy, Just before His death before Nero. that time has long came and its evidence is throughout the " church" its about preaching THE WORD has been and will be. we will never come up with a different way than that wich Jesus Christ made clear

matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


there is no new teaching coming Our only place is to follow the Lords Word, and share the Lords Word.


Im done with this thread though, i probably should have done what i have since i met you and Just ignored the toxicity.

One of the most well thought through, well versed posts I've read in addressing several issues. When you’re dealing with an incredibly confused individual, as you've done, it's good to encourage them if they're going to address people's points, to try and have a thorough comprehension of what is actually being said and what is meant before they take a limited, twisted stance. Additionally their use of God's word, using scripture, as a tool to stab another person doesn't align with the fruits of the spirit nor give any reverence to Him at all.

As you've noted, in many examples , there's no understanding of the crux of what is being said at all. Responses are filled with a total absence of comprehension and using the lord’s word as an attack. The spirit is contentious and comprehension totally fails. My observations are consistent with yours throughout the forums. It's in their best interests if they want to give themselves any form of credibility in discussions, and peace within themselves to look at their own unresolved issues and consider taking a basic English skills program. It would be of great assistance not only in comprehension of writing but in the ability to communicate with others effectively.

 

[slave]

The Bible says Jesus did in fact "poof the info into Paul".....

Gal 1.11-12

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.


Maybe if you spent more time in personal Bible study with the Holy Spirit and less time listening to educated Pontificating Church elder teachers and less time on this site ripping peoples faces off when they disagree with your childish topics and rants you might understand more of the Bible you want people to think you know about....

Spiritual revelation is the poof factor by way of our spirit, but that doesn't mean God imprints in our minds the things of Himself. This we must do after the spirits inclusion. Thus we can mistake God in two fronts here: One, we can mistakingly think that we can gain God's discernment thru knowledge alone, which biblically is unfounded. And we can imply that God puts on our mind the things of Christ, which again is equally wrong. For we must place our minds in Christ. Satan places thoughts in our mind, whereas God places them in our heart, to employ our minds to actively seek Him and place our minds in Him. Knowledge must always follow spiritual discernment first. This is righteousness lived out thru faith, and as Galatians says in 5:6 - faith expressing itself thru love. That is not as neat and tidy as it sounds.

 

[followjesus]

One of the most well thought through, well versed posts I've read in addressing several issues. When you’re dealing with an incredibly confused individual, as you've done, it's good to encourage them if they're going to address people's points, to try and have a thorough comprehension of what is actually being said and what is meant before they take a limited, twisted stance. Additionally their use of God's word, using scripture, as a tool to stab another person doesn't align with the fruits of the spirit nor give any reverence to Him at all.

As you've noted, in many examples , there's no understanding of the crux of what is being said at all. Responses are filled with a total absence of comprehension and using the lord’s word as an attack. The spirit is contentious and comprehension totally fails. My observations are consistent with yours throughout the forums. It's in their best interests if they want to give themselves any form of credibility in discussions, and peace within themselves to look at their own unresolved issues and consider taking a basic English skills program. It would be of great assistance not only in comprehension of writing but in the ability to communicate with others effectively.

agreed and also something I myself need to do daily, i think if we take the daily part seripously we find ourselves living one day at a time for God, rather than trying to reach a lifetime of things in One day. all of us can follw for a day, and then leave that day behind, get rest, wake, center ourselves on walking one more day in the Light, and so on. salvation is found one day at a time, securuty in Christ is found One day at a time never looking too far ahead, or too far behind, but remaining in Christ this day, Growth happens one day at a time, and were all less than finished and have areas to improve in our own selves. which should lead us to live today, with all our Hearts and strength to please God, because of the enormously high price that was paid on our behalf.


I cant Judge depleted, and arguing is just something i myself need to fix in me. today is always a new day, yesterday is always behind us, and tomorrow never gets Here, until it is called today. all i or i believe any of us can do is to fix upon the truth of the Word of God, and press on forward with the Hope we have been given, all we can control is today, How we act and what we do is our place to keep watch over. false doctrine is a different thing to me because we need to keep truth in accordance with Gods truth.

Thank you for the support and encouragement and fellowship may you be BLESSED in all the abundance of Jesus Christ the Lord of compassion and Justice equally !!

 

[MattforJesus]

This is exactly what's screwed up with this world, people running around not listening to no one about God unless it comes from someone with a PH.D. In bible study, a person who has been preaching for 50 years. Etc. it saddens me people cannot understand God can bring a message to the wise from someone who is not wise of things, yes it is true God uses the weak to lead the strong.

1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Job 32:7 I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Job 32:9 Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.

Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Just because a person has been a teacher for 50 years,and took a battery of tests harder to pass than a bar examination,does not mean they are more qualified,for people can qualify in the wrong interpretation of scriptures from a particular denomination,and we know there are many denominations.

Oh I think I will be Scientology because they passed a battery of tests too numerous to count,to become a teacher.

What the preacher can know and understand,the common pew sitter can understand,for God gives to all people liberally,and upbraids not.

 

[Meggido]

Spiritual revelation is the poof factor by way of our spirit, but that doesn't mean God imprints in our minds the things of Himself. This we must do after the spirits inclusion. Thus we can mistake God in two fronts here: One, we can mistakingly think that we can gain God's discernment thru knowledge alone, which biblically is unfounded. And we can imply that God puts on our mind the things of Christ, which again is equally wrong. For we must place our minds in Christ. Satan places thoughts in our mind, whereas God places them in our heart, to employ our minds to actively seek Him and place our minds in Him. Knowledge must always follow spiritual discernment first. This is righteousness lived out thru faith, and as Galatians says in 5:6 - faith expressing itself thru love. That is not as neat and tidy as it sounds.

Stop over complicating and intellectualizing things.....you just contradicted yourself big time....

1 Cor 2.1-16
And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, [SUP]5 [/SUP]so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; [SUP]7 [/SUP]but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; [SUP]8 [/SUP]the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; [SUP]9 [/SUP]but just as it is written,
“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So, yeah, once again, God used an educated man for his purposes. He didn't just poof the info into Paul.

However Jesus of Nazareth and His apostles were all deemed to be "unlearned men" so it was 13:1 unlearned (at least as far as Bible schools go). They went neither to the rabbinic school of Hillel, nor to that of Shammai, but we would have no Christianity without them.

The lesson for you (if you are indeed willing to learn any lessons) is that formal learning or even seminary education MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GOD, because "no flesh should glory in His presence". Please take note of this passage of Scripture and meditate upon it (1 Corinthians 1:19-29):

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen,yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 

[Depleted]

I get what you are saying, and I am in no way saying that we shouldn't study the word of God because he will just poof it into us. We are encouraged to study the word of God, but in my opinion this doesn't have to be in some type of school setting earning a degree. God teaches us if we listen to him and allow him to do so. The Spirit and the Word of God go hand in hand and that is how we learn of God through the Spirit and the Word.

As for Paul the Apostle, he didn't preach the old testament and the law. He taught the new covenant and Jesus Christ our Savior. In the post that I made earlier, you can see how he said he wasn't taught it by any man, but by direct revelation.

He said this about his previous life...He counted it but dung....

Philippians 3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

I've done most of my best learning away from school. So, yeah, I get that. BUT I also know that studying all by myself, even God's word, can get me in deep doodoo quickly. I need sounding boards or I go off into the deep end. And the sounding boards do need to know something of God's word, or I ended up believing them with no proof I should have or shouldn't have.

When I was new in Christ, I was taught, "You aren't saved until you're baptized in the Holy Spirit and prove it by speaking in tongues." The people teaching me that were Christians, just not well studied Christians. And they could "prove" it by scripture.

I went through hell. I was saved when I was 16. I wasn't sure I was saved until I was 22-24. Matter of fact, four of those years I was sure I wasn't saved and never could be saved.

You talk about "lead by the Holy Spirit?" How do we know we are lead? I was lead fine, except for that minor little problem -- it wasn't the Holy Spirit doing the leading. It was bad Christian theology leading.

Something all Christians get, if they're willing to go for it -- understanding of God's word. And how is that? I do get it is a major miracle of God's, but it's also through study, through people who know the word, and through effort.

The false teachers are out there, and I'm not talking IRL only. They're all over this site. They're all over this forum. One came on this thread. Unless we study, and truly seek to know more and more about God by being with others who have a firm understanding of his word, we'll be more 16-24 year old Me! Forever floundering. Forever unsure. Shark bait! Wolf dinner!

The sharks have been here. They are here. And, yes, I know that through the Holy Spirit, but I also know that from the amount of effort it has been taking to get something as small as "How do you know that" turning into a royal shark frenzy!

(An aside. Read Romans and see how much Paul used the OT to prove Jesus is who he said he is. God really did not change between the OT and NT. Paul was one of the main guys who proved that.)

 

[Depleted]

However Jesus of Nazareth and His apostles were all deemed to be "unlearned men" so it was 13:1 unlearned (at least as far as Bible schools go). They went neither to the rabbinic school of Hillel, nor to that of Shammai, but we would have no Christianity without them.

The lesson for you (if you are indeed willing to learn any lessons) is that formal learning or even seminary education MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GOD, because "no flesh should glory in His presence". Please take note of this passage of Scripture and meditate upon it (1 Corinthians 1:19-29):

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen,yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

No, really. Not into learning lessons that are never aimed for me or accurate anyway.

A. If you had bothered to see yourself, I have stated often enough that it doesn't have to be a formal education. (That you haven't caught onto that says it's you who needs your vision checked, not me.)

B. When a 12 year old boy can read the scrolls and impress the rabbis in the synagogue, that tells me the boy was educated. Maybe not conventionally, but what were the chances you could read the scrolls at that age and impress the rabbis? Could you even do it at 74?

Feel free to feel all pious. Just don't expect me to be impressed.

 

[Depleted]

You're learned, correct? I have a question then for you: Do we understand spiritual truths before our spirit is enlivened? When you say, Paul, did know them, in reference to the Pharisee's teachings, and the Law, and OT passages, were you saying He was divinely insightful to the teachings then before the road to Damascus? If he was not divinely inspired in those facts then, did he not maintain different conclusions about those facts therefore?

Let me ask you another question, why is "righteousness" imperative to teaching facts? What, then, does the mind of Christ mean? How does that develop, and when do we receive it?

I'm "learned," if we're going to go for that word. But my learnedness is more to do with words/writing. (Even if I make up words. lol) I went on into business writing.

And then years later, I wanted to try something new -- fiction.

I learned how to write a sentence in grade school. Teachers filled my head with "useless stuff" like "don't split infinitives," "never end a sentence with a preposition," and good ole "I before E, except after C." Useless stuff! Seriously useless stuff, because you can split an infinitive, you can end a sentence with a preposition, and more words are spelled with a EI after C, than IE after C.

BUT, I retained that stuff. And it serves a purpose. As far as writing goes, it doesn't matter. As far as good writing go it matters. I knew it. Now I know it. I know why it matters, and when to care.

Paul learned a lot of stuff about God before he met God. It was useless to him, because he didn't know God. But once he met him, the pieces fit together. He already had the knowledge. He knew it. Then he knew it more. He knew when it mattered and how.

THAT's learned. And even then, he didn't live in a vacuum. Immediately God sent someone to him. (Ananias? Something like that.) I don't think God really needed someone to give Paul back his site. I think that was the beginning of a friendship -- of fellowship. Of learning about God together with others who really know him.

I learned writing. I still press in to others who know it to learn more. I do the same thing when it comes to learning God.

Funny thing. This started out as a request to know who is teaching me before teaching. and has turned into a very large "I don't gotz to learn nuttin' new. Godz already learned me."

I'm learned when it comes to writing. I still have more to learn.

I'm mediocre when it comes to God. I have a lot more to learn. (I'm not learned.) What have I learned in this exchange? BDF isn't the place to go if you want to learn more. This is the place to go when you are sure you can teach everything about God to everyone else.

So question back to you -- where did righteousness ever come up in any of this?

 

[Depleted]

Most of the time I totally avoid your threads too. But sometimes there is an opportunity to say a word at the right time and I do that occasionally. I have been on the other side of yours and Angela's scathing posts so I do know what I'm talking about. And apparently so do some others here. And also, we are here to learn so I believe we can do that without scathing posts.

Being likened to a "serial rapist" and a "predator" in your posts is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Your anger and misguided theology is something that needs to be addressed on occasion. That is a good thing and we can take or leave it. We here are called out all the time about our behavior. Disagreeing with you and others doesn't mean I'm desiring to argue. We are here in this Bible study forum to be challenged about ourselves and about what we believe and how we believe.

For all the talk about wanting to learn about the Bible the question that needs to be asked is; why have you and Angela not taken care of the unforgiveness you are obviously carrying?

You freely admit that you are carrying un forgiveness and yet you believe you can teach others about theology when you have not yet learned about the beautiful simplicity of forgiveness in Christ for the brethren? That is the subject here isn't it? A teacher is not worthy of being listened to if they can't even fathom the idea of forgiving others in the household of faith. All the Greek and Latin Bible learning will not amount to a hill of beans if a believers heart harbors seething anger and un forgiveness.

This is not just for you Depleted, it's something all of us have to consider when we discuss the Bible here or anywhere. If someone is not in agreement with us about Bible interpretation we have no right to denounce them. But that happens all to often here.

If you EVER bothered reading beyond your own prejudice, hatred, and passive-aggressiveness, (that, at least is more aggressive than passive, I'll give that to you as a praise), you would have seen me say at least 50-100 times by now -- I AM NO TEACHER!

And, just so you know, I was being gracious with the words I chose.

So feel free to keep defending yourself while proving you are nothing like what you claim to be even during the defense.