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Thread: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    This is not true.

    Bible clearly says that God was proud of Job and was showing him to satan as somebody who is reliable. So the opposite of what you say is true. His fear of sin and his fear of God was the reason God loved him so much.

    Also, Job did not open any door to Satan, God did. Read the story.
    It is true...Fear is the opposite of faith. A counterfeit faith if you will. That which is not faith is sin.....Sin opens the door to attack from the enemy. Simple as that.

    God WAS proud of Job...The bible does not say that Job was perfect though. It says he was 'blameless and upright' But it does NOT say Job was without sin.
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    It is true...Fear is the opposite of faith. A counterfeit faith if you will. That which is not faith is sin.....Sin opens the door to attack from the enemy. Simple as that.

    God WAS proud of Job...The bible does not say that Job was perfect though. It says he was 'blameless and upright' But it does NOT say Job was without sin.
    The error of generalization again.

    Some fear is against faith, some is not.

    ---

    "Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor." 1Pt 2:17

    "Much dreaming and many words are meaningless. Therefore fear God." Ecc 5:7

    "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind." Ecc 12:13

    ---

    The fear of Job was the godly fear, the good one:

    "Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
    Job 1:8

    Prince (whoever he is, I do not care) teaches nonsense.
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    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Here is a view about Job and the power of the tongue that "creates" things. I like to use this website from time to time as it has articles based on the finished work of Christ and in light of the New Covenant and how that is different than in the Old Testament way of things.

    I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.

    People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15


    Ten Little Known Facts about Job





    Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:


    • God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs



    • God uses sickness to punish or discipline me



    • God puts me through hard times to teach me humility



    • God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


    I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.

    “But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.

    But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:


    1. Job was superstitious

    Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).


    2. Job was sin-conscious

    Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).


    3. Job was full of fear

    Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).

    4. Job was full of self-pity

    Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.


    5. Job allowed bitterness to take root

    Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).


    6. Job was self-righteous

    Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).

    Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).


    7. Job thought God didn’t care

    “Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).


    8. Job blamed God for his troubles

    It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).

    Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).


    9. Job thought God was trying to kill him

    “Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).


    10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead

    Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).

    Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.

    But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).

    As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!

    Unquote:

    Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.

    https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...cts-about-job/
    joaniemarie likes this.

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Here is a view about Job and the power of the tongue that "creates" things. I like to use this website from time to time as it has articles based on the finished work of Christ and in light of the New Covenant and how that is different than in the Old Testament way of things.

    I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.

    People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15


    Ten Little Known Facts about Job





    Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:


    • God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs



    • God uses sickness to punish or discipline me



    • God puts me through hard times to teach me humility



    • God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


    I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.

    “But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.

    But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:


    1. Job was superstitious

    Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).


    2. Job was sin-conscious

    Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).


    3. Job was full of fear

    Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).

    4. Job was full of self-pity

    Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.


    5. Job allowed bitterness to take root

    Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).


    6. Job was self-righteous

    Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).

    Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).


    7. Job thought God didn’t care

    “Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).


    8. Job blamed God for his troubles

    It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).

    Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).


    9. Job thought God was trying to kill him

    “Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).


    10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead

    Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).

    Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.

    But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).

    As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!

    Unquote:

    Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.

    https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...cts-about-job/
    Do you realize that satan was attacking Job´s character, too?

    I have no idea why charismatics have come with this teaching. It has no meaning and it is also very clearly unbiblical.
    Last edited by trofimus; August 6th, 2017 at 04:55 PM.
    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    The error of generalization again.

    Some fear is against faith, some is not.

    ---

    "Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor." 1Pt 2:17

    "Much dreaming and many words are meaningless. Therefore fear God." Ecc 5:7

    "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind." Ecc 12:13

    ---

    The fear of Job was the godly fear, the good one:

    "Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
    Job 1:8

    Prince (whoever he is, I do not care) teaches nonsense.
    I'm sorry......You just made the same mistake many new Christians make....The "fear" of the Lord is not fear per se. The fear that Job was trouble with is the 'terror' kind of fear that we are to have nothing to do with. The Fear of the Lord kind of fear is "Reverential Respect" Terror and reverential respect are as different as day is from night. So I was not wrong, you are. Don't get discouraged though. If you make mistakes, it means you are making an effort to go forward. Or sitting like a rock. The second one does not apply in your case though.
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    I'm sorry......You just made the same mistake many new Christians make....The "fear" of the Lord is not fear per se. The fear that Job was trouble with is the 'terror' kind of fear that we are to have nothing to do with. The Fear of the Lord kind of fear is "Reverential Respect" Terror and reverential respect are as different as day is from night. So I was not wrong, you are. Don't get discouraged though. If you make mistakes, it means you are making an effort to go forward. Or sitting like a rock. The second one does not apply in your case though.
    I have no idea where you got this information and these definitions from. Certainly not from the book of Job.
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    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    I have no idea where you got this information and these definitions from. Certainly not from the book of Job.
    That's ok young'un. Keep digging. Look for a good copy of Strongs Concordance

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    That's ok young'un. Keep digging. Look for a good copy of Strongs Concordance
    I neither use nor trust the KJV (I am not native English speaker), so, logically, Strong is useless to me
    Last edited by trofimus; August 6th, 2017 at 05:05 PM.
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    I have no idea where you got this information and these definitions from. Certainly not from the book of Job.
    That's ok young'un. Keep digging. Look for a good copy of Strong's Concordance. If they cannot be had in your country, then you can still wholly rely on the Holy Spirit to teach you. He has promised to teach you, you know. If you will listen to Him.

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    I do neither use nor trust the KJV (I am not native English speaker), so, logically, Strong is useless to me
    Well, like it or not, the KJV is still the most accurate version out there. If you refuse to use it, find another that you do like. God can use any version to teach one who is willing to learn of Him. If you cannot get Strongs, then you'll have to take my word for it that fear is not the same as the fear of the Lord. Because they ARE two different things.
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    I neither use nor trust the KJV (I am not native English speaker), so, logically, Strong is useless to me
    Do yourself a favor and compare the KJV with what you are reading at Bible Gateway before you write off the KJV as something you do not trust when you had never read it.

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    Well, like it or not, the KJV is still the most accurate version out there. If you refuse to use it, find another that you do like. God can use any version to teach one who is willing to learn of Him. If you cannot get Strongs, then you'll have to take my word for it that fear is not the same as the fear of the Lord. Because they ARE two different things.
    Strongs Concordance online is not as good as the book but it's better than nothing. Look here. Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    Well, like it or not, the KJV is still the most accurate version out there. If you refuse to use it, find another that you do like. God can use any version to teach one who is willing to learn of Him. If you cannot get Strongs, then you'll have to take my word for it that fear is not the same as the fear of the Lord. Because they ARE two different things.
    I do not think so. I can get Strongs, its even online. I just do not want to use it, you know? I have better sources.
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Enow View Post
    Do yourself a favor and compare the KJV with what you are reading at Bible Gateway before you write off the KJV as something you do not trust when you had never read it.
    I did. What next?
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    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by trofimus View Post
    I do not think so. I can get Strongs, its even online. I just do not want to use it, you know? I have better sources.
    Cool! I like better sources...What are they?

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    Cool! I like better sources...What are they?
    I am afraid you cant get/use them, because you speak only English.
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    Do not be worried about many things - only one thing is needed (Lk 10:41-42).

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Here is a view about Job and the power of the tongue that "creates" things. I like to use this website from time to time as it has articles based on the finished work of Christ and in light of the New Covenant and how that is different than in the Old Testament way of things.

    I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.

    People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15


    Ten Little Known Facts about Job





    Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:


    • God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs



    • God uses sickness to punish or discipline me



    • God puts me through hard times to teach me humility



    • God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


    I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.

    “But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.

    But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:


    1. Job was superstitious

    Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).


    2. Job was sin-conscious

    Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).


    3. Job was full of fear

    Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).

    4. Job was full of self-pity

    Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.


    5. Job allowed bitterness to take root

    Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).


    6. Job was self-righteous

    Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).

    Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).


    7. Job thought God didn’t care

    “Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).


    8. Job blamed God for his troubles

    It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).

    Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).


    9. Job thought God was trying to kill him

    “Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).


    10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead

    Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).

    Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.

    But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).

    As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!

    Unquote:

    Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.

    https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...cts-about-job/


    Thanks for posting this Bruce. I never considered it in this way to SUCH a degree before! But I can sure relate to Job back when I tried to always keep the 10 commandments thinking God would bless me for it. The actions on the outside were good but the heart was doing those things to get God's love and approval when I didn't know it was Jesus that gave me God's love and approval.

    I will definitely look onto the next part of this web site and again., thank you for always posting different points of view that prompt us to think. It reminds me of Ravi Zachariahs who has a radio and tv show called "Let My People Think"
    Grace777x70 likes this.

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    It is true...Fear is the opposite of faith. A counterfeit faith if you will. That which is not faith is sin.....Sin opens the door to attack from the enemy. Simple as that.

    God WAS proud of Job...The bible does not say that Job was perfect though. It says he was 'blameless and upright' But it does NOT say Job was without sin.
    What you are doing is knowing the scripture better then the One who wrote them. You put your own meaning into the scripture to justify your view. Job 1, 12 is so clear, and states that God allow sich Satan to test Job. Why you ignore you this? Instead you acting like Jobs friends!
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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Here is a view about Job and the power of the tongue that "creates" things. I like to use this website from time to time as it has articles based on the finished work of Christ and in light of the New Covenant and how that is different than in the Old Testament way of things.

    I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.

    People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15


    Ten Little Known Facts about Job





    Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:


    • God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs



    • God uses sickness to punish or discipline me



    • God puts me through hard times to teach me humility



    • God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


    I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.

    “But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.

    But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:


    1. Job was superstitious

    Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).


    2. Job was sin-conscious

    Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).


    3. Job was full of fear

    Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).

    4. Job was full of self-pity

    Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.


    5. Job allowed bitterness to take root

    Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).


    6. Job was self-righteous

    Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).

    Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).


    7. Job thought God didn’t care

    “Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).


    8. Job blamed God for his troubles

    It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).

    Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).


    9. Job thought God was trying to kill him

    “Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).


    10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead

    Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).

    Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.

    But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).

    As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!

    Unquote:

    Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.

    https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/...cts-about-job/
    Oh This is good! I knew that Job was no better than me.
    Grace777x70 and joaniemarie like this.

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    Default Re: THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

    Believers are called to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us the Bible. Because unsaved people can read and study the Bible and know it inside out on the surface. But as far as the deeper meanings of Spiritual truth go, they are not able to come to the knowledge of the truth because they don't have the Holy Spirit. He can take the Bible and use it to cut into the many different meanings and reasons of why we believe what we believe going deep into the thoughts and intentions of our hearts. Cutting away things that need to be cut away and putting in the things that cleanse and purify us in the knowledge of the truth.

    And the same is true when believers refuse to go past their own religious mind-set of conclusions so to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us how to "repent" and that means "change our minds" to see the God of the Bible by seeing Jesus in the Bible. I notice many here who disagree with looking at Job maybe a little differently have all disappeared. They can't make fun of the individual so they have no other ammunition. I would ask those of you who have done this to ask yourselves why. Why is it you prefer to ridicule and belittle other Christians for disagreeing with you? Why can't you rationally discuss a matter from the Bible with your brothers and sisters without calling their beliefs that differ from yours heretical and false?




    Last edited by joaniemarie; August 6th, 2017 at 06:47 PM.
    Grace777x70 and Denadii like this.

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