THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21

[Grace777x70]

Oh This is good! I knew that Job was no better than me.

All of us are "Job-like" until we get our minds renewed to the truths of the New Covenant.

Here is another one - perhaps you may enjoy this one too.

Is Satan God’s Sheepdog?

The Book of Job is one of the most amazing stories in the Bible, but we read it wrong two ways. First, we elevate Job into some kind of faith hero. Second, we think the devil is a sheepdog sent by the Lord to do his dirty work. This crazy notion is based on the following passage:

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” “Does Job fear God for nothing?”

Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:8-12)

The traditional interpretation is that the Lord set Job up for disaster by dangling him in front of the devil like a marshal might dangle a convict’s shirt in front of a bloodhound.

“You smell Job, boy? You smell his good works and how much he hates evil?”

“Grrrr. Grrrr.”

“Get him, boy! Go! Rip his life apart!”

What a terrible portrayal of our heavenly Father!

According to the traditional view there is no difference between God and Satan. The devil did the deed, but God was a collaborator. God permitted it. He “allowed” it to happen.

Thankfully, this is one of those times where something is lost in translation. Let’s read those verses again in a word-for-word translation such as Green’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV):

And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil? (Job 1:8, LITV)

In other words, “Satan, why are you gunning for Job? Is it because he’s a good guy? Is it because he won’t fall for your evil schemes?”

Do you see? God isn’t setting Job up at all. He’s letting Satan know that he’s onto him. “I’m watching you, Satan.” The Lord is not unaware of the devil’s schemes.

The fact is, Satan was gunning for Job. Not only did Satan want to hurt Job, he wanted the Lord to do it! Look at what Satan says:

Stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face. (Job 1:11)

The audacity of this schemer! How brazen! First the accuser tries to manipulate God: “Job only fears you because you’ve put a hedge about him and blessed him” (verses 9-10). Then he dares the Lord to strike this good man Job! Of course, the Lord isn’t about to fall for Satan’s tricks, yet verse 12 seems to suggest he does.

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power…” (Job 1:12)

At first glance it seems that God has just been conned by the devil into giving him permission to go after Job. Really? And we fall for that? Or worse, we think the Lord would fall for it?! Let’s read that verse in a literal translation:

And Jehovah said to Satan, Behold, all that is his is in your hand! Only, do not lay your hand on him. And Satan went out from the face of Jehovah. (Job 1:12, LITV)

The Lord is not giving Satan permission; he’s stating a fact. Job was already under Satan’s thumb. Why does the Lord say that? Because of this:

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)

As Tom Tompkins explains in his book, Understanding the Book of Job, God gave control of the earth to man…

The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)
…but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:


Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).


Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?


Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.


Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17).

But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

Here is the link for the article if you want to read the questions at the bottom.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/28/is-satan-gods-sheepdog/

 

[Denadii]

Believers are called to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us the Bible. Because unsaved people can read and study the Bible and know it inside out on the surface. But as far as the deeper meanings of Spiritual truth go, they are not able to come to the knowledge of the truth because they don't have the Holy Spirit. He can take the Bible and use it to cut into the many different meanings and reasons of why we believe what we believe going deep into the thoughts and intentions of our hearts. Cutting away things that need to be cut away and putting in the things that cleanse and purify us in the knowledge of the truth.

And the same is true when believers refuse to go past their own religious mind-set of conclusions so to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us how to "repent" and that means "change our minds" to see the God of the Bible by seeing Jesus in the Bible. I notice many here who disagree with looking at Job maybe a little differently have all disappeared. They can't make fun of the individual so they have no other ammunition. I would ask those of you who have done this to ask yourselves why. Why is it you prefer to ridicule and belittle other Christians for disagreeing with you? Why can't you rationally discuss a matter from the Bible with your brothers and sisters without calling their beliefs that differ from yours heretical and false?

Omygoodness girl! joaniemarie you show such wisdom here. Are you sure you're as young as you put on your profile? And your words show a lot of love too. Thank you for such a good post!!

 

[trofimus]

Believers are called to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us the Bible. Because unsaved people can read and study the Bible and know it inside out on the surface. But as far as the deeper meanings of Spiritual truth go, they are not able to come to the knowledge of the truth because they don't have the Holy Spirit. He can take the Bible and use it to cut into the many different meanings and reasons of why we believe what we believe going deep into the thoughts and intentions of our hearts. Cutting away things that need to be cut away and putting in the things that cleanse and purify us in the knowledge of the truth.

And the same is true when believers refuse to go past their own religious mind-set of conclusions so to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us how to "repent" and that means "change our minds" to see the God of the Bible by seeing Jesus in the Bible. I notice many here who disagree with looking at Job maybe a little differently have all disappeared. They can't make fun of the individual so they have no other ammunition. I would ask those of you who have done this to ask yourselves why. Why is it you prefer to ridicule and belittle other Christians for disagreeing with you? Why can't you rationally discuss a matter from the Bible with your brothers and sisters without calling their beliefs that differ from yours heretical and false?

Its always good to just read the book we talk about before reading some explanation of any pastor. Then, we will have better protection against influence we can wrongly think its from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Denadii]

All of us are "Job-like" until we get our minds renewed to the truths of the New Covenant.

Here is another one - perhaps you may enjoy this one too.

Is Satan God’s Sheepdog?

The Book of Job is one of the most amazing stories in the Bible, but we read it wrong two ways. First, we elevate Job into some kind of faith hero. Second, we think the devil is a sheepdog sent by the Lord to do his dirty work. This crazy notion is based on the following passage:

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” “Does Job fear God for nothing?”

Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:8-12)

The traditional interpretation is that the Lord set Job up for disaster by dangling him in front of the devil like a marshal might dangle a convict’s shirt in front of a bloodhound.

“You smell Job, boy? You smell his good works and how much he hates evil?”

“Grrrr. Grrrr.”

“Get him, boy! Go! Rip his life apart!”

What a terrible portrayal of our heavenly Father!

According to the traditional view there is no difference between God and Satan. The devil did the deed, but God was a collaborator. God permitted it. He “allowed” it to happen.

Thankfully, this is one of those times where something is lost in translation. Let’s read those verses again in a word-for-word translation such as Green’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV):

And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil? (Job 1:8, LITV)

In other words, “Satan, why are you gunning for Job? Is it because he’s a good guy? Is it because he won’t fall for your evil schemes?”

Do you see? God isn’t setting Job up at all. He’s letting Satan know that he’s onto him. “I’m watching you, Satan.” The Lord is not unaware of the devil’s schemes.

The fact is, Satan was gunning for Job. Not only did Satan want to hurt Job, he wanted the Lord to do it! Look at what Satan says:

Stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face. (Job 1:11)

The audacity of this schemer! How brazen! First the accuser tries to manipulate God: “Job only fears you because you’ve put a hedge about him and blessed him” (verses 9-10). Then he dares the Lord to strike this good man Job! Of course, the Lord isn’t about to fall for Satan’s tricks, yet verse 12 seems to suggest he does.

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power…” (Job 1:12)

At first glance it seems that God has just been conned by the devil into giving him permission to go after Job. Really? And we fall for that? Or worse, we think the Lord would fall for it?! Let’s read that verse in a literal translation:

And Jehovah said to Satan, Behold, all that is his is in your hand! Only, do not lay your hand on him. And Satan went out from the face of Jehovah. (Job 1:12, LITV)

The Lord is not giving Satan permission; he’s stating a fact. Job was already under Satan’s thumb. Why does the Lord say that? Because of this:

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)

As Tom Tompkins explains in his book, Understanding the Book of Job, God gave control of the earth to man…

The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)
…but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:


Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).


Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?


Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.


Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17).

But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

Here is the link for the article if you want to read the questions at the bottom.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/28/is-satan-gods-sheepdog/

LOL Ok....Don't talk about Job no more. His name sounds like job and I'm retired. I don't want no job no more! A job is just too much work!

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL Ok....Don't talk about Job no more. His name sounds like job and I'm retired. I don't want no job no more! A job is just too much work!

Grrrr....get him!...lol

The problem with manmade religion is that it views the Bible in a distorted way that glorifies self and diminishes grace. This can be seen in the way religion portrays Job as a good guy and God as a bad guy who sends the devil to do his dirty work.

 

[maverich]

wowwee you all sure did lose sight of the power of the tongue.

first of all the opposite of faith is sight not fear. if you can see it you don't need faith.

fear is false evidence appearing real

jericho was won over by a crowd of quiet people, think about it around the city 6 days nary a word. 6 times more on the 7th day, and then 1 last circuit,
and they yelled and blew the trumpets

maybe if we didn''t talk so much about difficulties, maybe the fortresses in our lives would be tore down

talk to something it lives, stop talking and it dies

 

[joaniemarie]

All of us are "Job-like" until we get our minds renewed to the truths of the New Covenant.

Here is another one - perhaps you may enjoy this one too.

Is Satan God’s Sheepdog?

The Book of Job is one of the most amazing stories in the Bible, but we read it wrong two ways. First, we elevate Job into some kind of faith hero. Second, we think the devil is a sheepdog sent by the Lord to do his dirty work. This crazy notion is based on the following passage:

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” “Does Job fear God for nothing?”

Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:8-12)

The traditional interpretation is that the Lord set Job up for disaster by dangling him in front of the devil like a marshal might dangle a convict’s shirt in front of a bloodhound.

“You smell Job, boy? You smell his good works and how much he hates evil?”

“Grrrr. Grrrr.”

“Get him, boy! Go! Rip his life apart!”

What a terrible portrayal of our heavenly Father!

According to the traditional view there is no difference between God and Satan. The devil did the deed, but God was a collaborator. God permitted it. He “allowed” it to happen.

Thankfully, this is one of those times where something is lost in translation. Let’s read those verses again in a word-for-word translation such as Green’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV):

And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart on My servant Job because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil? (Job 1:8, LITV)

In other words, “Satan, why are you gunning for Job? Is it because he’s a good guy? Is it because he won’t fall for your evil schemes?”

Do you see? God isn’t setting Job up at all. He’s letting Satan know that he’s onto him. “I’m watching you, Satan.” The Lord is not unaware of the devil’s schemes.

The fact is, Satan was gunning for Job. Not only did Satan want to hurt Job, he wanted the Lord to do it! Look at what Satan says:

Stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face. (Job 1:11)

The audacity of this schemer! How brazen! First the accuser tries to manipulate God: “Job only fears you because you’ve put a hedge about him and blessed him” (verses 9-10). Then he dares the Lord to strike this good man Job! Of course, the Lord isn’t about to fall for Satan’s tricks, yet verse 12 seems to suggest he does.

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power…” (Job 1:12)

At first glance it seems that God has just been conned by the devil into giving him permission to go after Job. Really? And we fall for that? Or worse, we think the Lord would fall for it?! Let’s read that verse in a literal translation:

And Jehovah said to Satan, Behold, all that is his is in your hand! Only, do not lay your hand on him. And Satan went out from the face of Jehovah. (Job 1:12, LITV)

The Lord is not giving Satan permission; he’s stating a fact. Job was already under Satan’s thumb. Why does the Lord say that? Because of this:

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)

As Tom Tompkins explains in his book, Understanding the Book of Job, God gave control of the earth to man…

The highest heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. (Psa 115:16)
…but in the Garden of Eden man handed control to Satan. So when the Lord says “all that is his is in your hand!” he is stating a painful fact that will ultimately cost Jesus his life.

To sum up, here are four lies that we get from misreading Job 1:


Lie #1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.

The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).


Lie #2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?


Lie #3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character

Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.


Lie #4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.

First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17).

But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

Unquote:

Here is the link for the article if you want to read the questions at the bottom.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/28/is-satan-gods-sheepdog/

It is such a shame that believers will REFUSE... all out REFUSE to take a look at what they have been taught. We have to be willing to give an answer for the hope that is in us. I think satan has successfully shut down in many places here on earth the fellowship of the saints and therefor shutting down the power we have in Christ when we stand together.

For what is being disagreed with here about Job in this thread for instance? Is it sound doctrine?? Is it in any way denying Jesus Christ? Or is it uplifting Him and the goodness and grace of God? I see what you have done here Bruce so many times on CC to raise the bar for Christians to THINK about what they have been taught about the Bible. To see Christ so we can draw closer to Him. To know Him and the power of His resurrection. Isn't that what we are called to? Bless you and others here who do that.

Job was a man of God like we are. He was human like us and he was also limited in his understanding of God just like we are. I see Job was challenged to see God much clearer. That the things that the enemy sent that were intended to ruin him, God used it for good instead. God rescued Job. And then He gave Job even more than he had before because that is how God works when we step out and dare to trust Him.

God didn't take the evil and make it good. God took the things that were meant for evil by the devil and made the outcome good. He used what was meant for evil. He never brings evil on us nor does he tempt us with evil. Christians get all this mixed up and end up calling good = evil... and evil = good. We can't do that. That is confusion and Jesus is NOT the God of confusion. Confusion will mess us up about the nature and goodness of God every time. And that is what the devil does. He did it with Adam and Eve. The devil got Adam and Eve to question the goodness and good intentions of God. So they began having a fearful expectation of evil from God so they could not trust Him and opened themselves up to the enemy and his lies and trickery.

We are supposed to always trust and have an expectation of GOOD from God not evil. That is why those of us who have tasted and seen that the Lord is good can say with authority He is REALLLY GOOD!! And we can pray properly and in agreement with Him by denouncing evil things and praying in accordance with His will and His Word. Sickness is not good. Death is not good. They are not coming from the hand of God. God sent His Son to take away the power of sin and death. How nutty we Christians are to think He would turn around and zap us with the very things He sent His Son to defeat????

 

[joaniemarie]

Its always good to just read the book we talk about before reading some explanation of any pastor. Then, we will have better protection against influence we can wrongly think its from the Holy Spirit.

Exactly trofimus. I've read Job on occasion through out my life and been taught in church for some 40 years., and came to the conclusions you have. Why do you assume I (this woman on CC you don't even know) have never read or been taught about Job before? sheesshhh.

We believers are called to keep growing and learning from the Bible. Not to read a book in the Bible once or twice but to ask the Lord to show us the truth He has for us in each verse. There is something new to learn every day! His mercies are new every morning and they build on the truths already shown to us. And the things we got wrong., He makes right but we have to be willing to look at what we have been taught and put it up to other verses and truths about Christ we are learning.

It's about rightly dividing the Word of Truth. The Holy Spirit is not someone we should fear. Either He is able to teach us how to believe and learn the truth OR it is us who keeps us in the truth. I have found that there is no fear in love. I know He loves me and will show me the truth. I'm confident in Him but not myself. I am able to fall when focusing on my own abilities and understandings. And so are you.

 

[trofimus]

It is such a shame that believers will REFUSE... all out REFUSE to take a look at what they have been taught.

Exactly.

Thats why I wonder why you started the thread by copy & paste of Prince and continue in the thread by defending what he said.

Also, I wonder, why only charismatics are liking your posts and agreeing with you? If this teaching is of the Holy Spirit, people should agree with it from various branches and churches, not just from one specific teaching background, right?

Maybe its you, who is religious and need to get out of what has been taught.

 

[joaniemarie]

Exactly.

Thats why I wonder why you started the thread by copy & paste of Prince and continue in the thread by defending what he said.

Also, I wonder, why only charismatics are liking your posts and agreeing with you? If this teaching is of the Holy Spirit, people should agree with it from various branches and churches, not just from one specific teaching background, right?

Maybe its you, who is religious and need to get out of what has been taught.

Why did I cut and paste the devotional? Why do I like this devotional in particular? Because we have to start somewhere. I know that we have to jump right in and begin somewhere. So I happen to use this devotional because it does in fact challenge the status quo of what I was taught for many many years. And shocker of shocks, it challenges the status quo of others here too.

And if you read., I'm not defending what JP is saying. I'm giving an answer as to why I agree with some of the things JP says.
When I post one of his devotions it is one I find particularly thought provoking. I don't post every one of the daily devotions as there is one for every day of the year just like with other devotionals other believers have authored.

But instead of talking about the topic., people want to argue about JP. If you look at the posts after the OP., you will see how different ideas are brought up and why. Then I and others answer the questions or statements others bring in. I use my own ideas and my own learned experiences after the OP is started. People are all fallible here. No teacher is perfect nor does he/she have every truth the Bible has to give. But we learn from one another by being challenged and we use the Scriptures that have been hidden in our hearts and we put them up for comparison to other Scriptures and truths we have each learned.

Why do you fight against the process? It's a good process and I welcome your thoughts and what you have been taught. Let's put our beliefs up and be challenged and encouraged. Let's not fight. No one can force us to believe something we don't agree with. The fellowship of the saints is to be a good thing and iron sharpens iron. Put up your own devotional from someone who has blessed you and invite me to join in and I will. Put up your own words and challenge me and I will join in but not to fight and argue. But to ask why you believe what you do in light of the truths I've come to see in the Bible too. It's a good process and why I come here.

 

[Stephen63]

Here is a view about Job and the power of the tongue that "creates" things. I like to use this website from time to time as it has articles based on the finished work of Christ and in light of the New Covenant and how that is different than in the Old Testament way of things.

I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.

People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15


Ten Little Known Facts about Job

Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:

• God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs

• God uses sickness to punish or discipline me

• God puts me through hard times to teach me humility

• God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line

I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.

“But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.

But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:


1. Job was superstitious

Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).


2. Job was sin-conscious

Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).


3. Job was full of fear

Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).

4. Job was full of self-pity

Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.


5. Job allowed bitterness to take root

Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).


6. Job was self-righteous

Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).

Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).


7. Job thought God didn’t care

“Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).


8. Job blamed God for his troubles

It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).

Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).


9. Job thought God was trying to kill him

“Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).


10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead

Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).

Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.

But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).

As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!

Unquote:

Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/22/little-known-facts-about-job/

Herein lies the problem with this post. (in red)

God says Job was already perfect & upright in all of his ways & this false teacher makes God out to be a liar.

Paul Ellis is a false teacher, a false preacher, & a liar.

God is true & any man who disagrees with God is a liar.

Why did G777 say this?

People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15

Because he knew he would draw fire from others.

This is a good example that if someone teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible, you can't trust anything they say.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another look at the book of Job that some may find interesting concerning the "blamelessness of Job". It may "conflict" with some of our church teachings.

The Gospel of Elihu

The problem with manmade religion is that it views the Bible in a distorted way that glorifies self and diminishes grace. This can be seen in the way religion portrays Job as a good guy and God as a bad guy who sends the devil to do his dirty work.

Contrary to popular opinion, Job was not a giant of faith but a superstitious and fearful whiner, and God certainly did not send Satan to make Job’s life miserable. (Before you write to tell me I don’t know the Bible, please click on those links and read the relevant posts.)

Why are so many confused about Job? Because they’ve only read the first chapter. They’ve read the bit where it says:

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. (Job 1:1, KJV)

And the other bit where it says…

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing. (Job 1:22)

If you only read chapter 1, you will conclude that Job was perfect, blameless, and an all-round saint. But keep reading and you will find that he was anything but perfect. But that’s okay because none of us is perfect and all of us need grace.

I’m not here to knock Job down – the devil already did that – but to lift God up. I want you to see that God is far greater than the devil and far better than religion makes him out to be.

So that you might appreciate the grace God gives to imperfect people, I want to look at three ways Job missed the mark. Job messed up. He got three things wrong about God and, if we are unacquainted with the gospel of Jesus, we will repeat his mistakes.

And because people sometimes write in and say “You’re adding to scripture” when I say things like “Job messed up,” we’re going to see how God responded to Job through his servant Elihu.


1. Job blamed God for his suffering

Job did not hesitate to attribute his suffering to a Lord who gives and takes away (Job 1:21), who gives both good and trouble (Job 2:10), and who had made his life bitter (Job 27:2). In Job’s understanding the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune come from the Lord’s bow:

Why do you shoot your arrows at me? (Job 7:20, NIrV)

The arrows of the Almighty are in me, my spirit drinks in their poison (Job 6:4)

When hard times come there is a temptation to point the finger at the Lord, but was Job correct in blaming God for his hardships?

No. Near the end of the book he is confronted by a young man called Elihu. Elihu is the voice of wisdom and sanity and he says:

Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong. (Job 34:10)

If you think God gives and takes away, stop listening to Job and listen to Elihu.

God won’t kill your kids or steal your wealth or make you sick. God gives good gifts, not bad gifts like cancer, and his gifts are without revocation. God doesn’t give us sickness to teach us character and he doesn’t take away things we are enjoying.

2. Job thought God was hostile towards him

Like many people who are going through hard times, Job thought God was out to get him:

Why do you avoid me? Why do you treat me like an enemy? … You bind chains on my feet; (Job 13:24,27)

Have you ever been in so much hurt that you thought God was trying to kill you? Then you’re in good company, because that’s what Job thought (see Job 30:21-23).

But Job was wrong. Elihu, who had a much better understanding of God’s good character, spoke up to correct his misperception:

You have said in my hearing–I heard the very words… “God has found fault with me; he considers me his enemy. He fastens my feet in shackles; he keeps close watch on all my paths.” But I tell you, in this you are not right, (Job 33:8, 10-12)

Religion says, “God is mad at you, God hates you, God is sick of you.” But the gospel of Elihu declares that God loves you and is for you:

He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food (Job 36:16)

God doesn’t give us pain and trouble but he delivers us in our suffering and speaks to us in our affliction (Job 36:15). He does this because he’s our Father who loves us and cares for us.

3. Job accused God of being unjust

As surely as God lives, who has denied me justice, the Almighty, who has made my life bitter (Job 27:2)

Read the Book of Job in one sitting and you’ll see Job’s descent into madness. At the beginning it’s all roses and religious soundbites, but by chapter 27 the mask has well and truly come off and Job is fed up.

God-Alive! He’s denied me justice! God Almighty! He’s ruined my life! (Job 27:2, MSG)

This is a serious accusation yet it is one we may be tempted to make. “God allowed this to happen. This is all his fault. IT’S NOT FAIR!”

What does Elihu say in response to this accusation?

Is there anyone like Job, who drinks scorn like water?… It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice. (Job 34:7,12)

God did not ruin Job’s life and he won’t ruin yours. Life is unjust. Life will beat you up. But God is never unjust.

If you are going through tough times, don’t follow Job down into the dunghill of self-pity and finger-pointing. Listen to Elihu:

Oh, [insert your name here], don’t you see how God’s wooing you from the jaws of danger? How he’s drawing you into wide-open places– inviting you to feast at a table laden with blessings? (Job 36:16, MSG)

Be like David who saw, in the presence of his enemies, a banquet table prepared by the Lord (Ps 23:5). Your heavenly Father is for you, not against you!

I hope you can see that Job was not the sweet-smelling saint that religion makes him out to be. Although we have this perception that Job said nothing wrong, Elihu said, “Job, you talk sheer nonsense–nonstop nonsense!” (Job 35:16, MSG).

And this brings me to the best and final part of our series. Even though Job got it wrong in so many ways, God was for him and God brought him through to a spacious place. How did that happen? We’ll find out in the next post.

Unquote:

Here is the link if anyone is interested in looking at the questions about this article. Sometimes I learn more in there then in the article itself.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/30/gospel-of-elihu/

 

[Denadii]

Herein lies the problem with this post. (in red)


.
God is true & any man who disagrees with God is a liar.

Why did G777 say this?


Because he knew he would draw fire from others.

This is a good example that if someone teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible, you can't trust anything they say.

1 In that usage of the word "Perfect" means upright, not sinless. Job was a man just like you and I. He put his pants on one leg at a time. If you have a problem with that read in Job yourself where Job said with his own mouth how he indulged in fear (sin).
2 Paul Ellis is a false teacher, a false preacher, & a liar
You are in disobedience slamming Gods preachers especially by name.

3 Why did G777 say this?
He said it because its true. If you don't know the Word don't criticize others. Learn the Word

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok...so what happens to Job when he finally sees who God actually is when God speaks to him about Himself? This article addresses that aspect of Job's life. It doesn't end with Job in a mess.

People are free to have a different view. I won't call you names and slander you if you have a different view....

Job’s Grace Encounter

Tradition has taught that Job endured unimaginable suffering with poise and noble patience. He was a giant of the faith who never said anything wrong, and he is a great example for us all to follow.
Baloney.

As we have seen in this series, Job was, at times, a self-righteous whiner who complained to high heaven. He blamed God for his troubles and even accused the Lord of being unjust.

Yet somehow this makes me like Job more because I have gone through tough times and when I did I wrestled with the same sorts of thoughts he had.

“God where are you? Lord, do you hate me? Why have you forsaken me? Do you even care?!”

Silly stuff really, but understandable. In our moments of weakness we are all tempted to speak like this.

The Book of Job records the dumb things people say when they go through hardships, ignorant statements like “God gives and takes away.”

Sadly, we have paid more attention to the words of hurting men than the healing words of the Lord, and what he says in the Book of Job is, quite simply, amazing.
What did God say?

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? (Job 1:8, KJV)

As we have seen, Job was far from perfect, yet God calls him “a perfect and upright man.” Job was fearful and superstitious, yet God says, “That’s my guy.”

A few verses later the Bible – God’s book – makes one of the most outrageous statements in history:

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing. (Job 1:22)

Are you kidding me?!

Job charged God with wrongdoing again and again. He said God was unjust (Job 27:2), had shot him full of poison arrows (Job 6:4), and made his life bitter (Job 27:2).

He said so much dumb stuff that Elihu called him a nonsense-spouting ignoramus (see Job 34:35 and 35:16, especially in the Message Bible).

Yet the official verdict, according to the Judge of all men and as recorded in scripture for all to see, is that Job said nothing wrong.

According to the Bible Job didn’t blame God, even though he did.

What’s going on? Is God mistaken in his assessment of Job? Is the Bible in error?

Grace rewrites history

God sees all things from the perspective of eternity. He sees the end from the beginning and he knows that Job is going to come through his trial and be radically changed by grace. Job is not righteous and perfect because his behavior is impeccable or because he speaks well or sacrifices animals.

Job is righteous because God says so and what God says comes true.

Think of Gideon cowering in the wine-press. “Mighty warrior,” says the angel of the Lord and even though it’s not true it becomes true because God says so.

Why does God’s Word say Job did not sin even though he sinned again and again?

Because love speaks to our true identity rather than our circumstances. Clothed with the righteousness that God gives, Job is not judged a sinner but a righteous man, even though his deeds were far from righteous.

(If you find this hard to swallow, the Bible does the same thing in Hebrews 11 when it looks back on a bunch of murderers and adulterers and calls them heroes of the faith and makes no mention of their sins. Love keeps no record of wrongs (1 Cor 13:5))

Job did not sin… (Job 1:22)

This verse says little about the flawed character of Job and much about the gracious character of God whose story this really is.

God does not treat Job as his sins deserve but relates to him on the basis of grace. This is good news for those of us who have sinned, like Job, and missed the mark.

Your story may be one big disaster movie – one epic fail after another – but grace will change your story and give you a better ending than the one you deserve.

Religion versus grace

Not once through all this did Job sin; not once did he blame God. (Job 1:22, MSG)

There are two ways to read this passage. DIY religion says, “See Job. Study Job. Be like Job.” But that way lies self-trust and disaster. Job wasn’t the self-made hero religion makes him out to be and neither are you. You’re simply not strong enough to face life’s trials on your own.

But read this passage through the lens of grace and the message is, “See the love of God! Look what God does for sinners like Job!”

It’s important you get this because if you put Job on a pedestal you’ll miss the grace of God. Sadly, that is what has happened in much of the church. By turning Job’s story into a flesh-glorifying pep talk, we have cut ourselves off from Christ and positioned ourselves for failure.

To the degree we exalt Job we diminish grace.

If Job was a perfect man, he had no need of God’s aid. But Job was an imperfect man with a very great need and when he finally saw this – after 40 long chapters of introspective pity-partying – he was greatly blessed.

What the devil stole, God restored twofold. Don’t you love this? The devil knocked Job down, but God lifted him up. The devil sifted Peter, but God made him into an apostle.

The devil may take your job, your health, your life, but God has the last word and ALL THINGS work out good for those who know his love. How do I know? Because God said so.

The Book of Job isn’t about a good man going through bad times, but a good God who loves us through thick and thin and who desires to bless us no matter what we’ve said or done.

That’s the real message of Job and that’s the good news of grace.

Unquote:

Here is the link to the questions at the bottom of the article if anyone is interested in that.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/11/04/jobs-grace-encounter/

 

[Nehemiah6]

Bible clearly says that God was proud of Job and was showing him to satan as somebody who is reliable. So the opposite of what you say is true. His fear of sin and his fear of God was the reason God loved him so much.

Also, Job did not open any door to Satan, God did. Read the story.

I believe this is the proper understanding of Job. I'm not sure how many Christians could have taken all the devastating blows that Job took and still continue to worship God as Job did. However, Job did not have the insight into the sovereignty of God which he needed to have. And so we find in chapters 38-42 giving us a display of God's almighty power and glory, instead of the answers which Job had been asking. Following that here is what Job said in acknowledgement because God revealed Himself to Job (Job 42:1-6):

1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

James (by the Holy Spirit) holds up Job as an example of patient endurance in the midst of suffering, commends the patience of Job, and reminds us of the tender mercy of God (James 5:11).

 

[Denadii]

I believe this is the proper understanding of Job. I'm not sure how many Christians could have taken all the devastating blows that Job took and still continue to worship God as Job did. However, Job did not have the insight into the sovereignty of God which he needed to have. And so we find in chapters 38-42 giving us a display of God's almighty power and glory, instead of the answers which Job had been asking. Following that here is what Job said in acknowledgement because God revealed Himself to Job (Job 42:1-6):

1Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

James (by the Holy Spirit) holds up Job as an example of patient endurance in the midst of suffering, commends the patience of Job, and reminds us of the tender mercy of God (James 5:11).

Job spent most of that time whining and complaining and discussing his woes with his 'friends' I agree he was determined to trust God but had no idea of how to do that. He would have been smart to stay away from his friends, his wife and everyone else. He would have been smart to go to the Lord right off the bat, but he didn't. All his friends and his wife did was to condemn him and drag him down. Then he started spouting religious babble like; even if he does not heal me I'll have faith in him. Or Even if he doesn't heal me, maybe that's healing in itself. I'll go on trusting him anyway. Big deal. That was not faith. It was babble. It sounded good but was nothing but a gush of nonfaith. Just like Christians today spout. Drivel.

James was right though. Job feared God and did endure till the end. And God in His love for Job, reinstated him and blessed him. But look at the crap that Job spewed. Blaming God, speaking death and destruction, blah blah yadda yadda....Just like us modern people. Job was no different. Why do you deify him? He was upright and uptight. Not perfect as in without blemish.

 

[joaniemarie]

Exactly. Job did not stand on his own IN his own righteousness. How do "I" know this?? Because that would mean he and other men and women of God most surely could stand before God and BOAST. I like what was said about Job being JUST LIKE US.
He could no more boast than any of us can. Our boasting is in Christ alone. That is what needs to be seen here., JESUS.
He is unfolded in the pages of the Bible from the OT to the NT. It's the Holy Spirit who shows us Jesus when we read the Word. It's His job to reveal Jesus to us and it's our job to be be open to that each and every time. He is not pointing to Himself (the Holy Spirit) nor is He pointing to us the people of God. He always reveals Christ and His Rightetousness.

 

[Meggido]

Job spent most of that time whining and complaining and discussing his woes with his 'friends' I agree he was determined to trust God but had no idea of how to do that. He would have been smart to stay away from his friends, his wife and everyone else. He would have been smart to go to the Lord right off the bat, but he didn't. All his friends and his wife did was to condemn him and drag him down. Then he started spouting religious babble like; even if he does not heal me I'll have faith in him. Or Even if he doesn't heal me, maybe that's healing in itself. I'll go on trusting him anyway. Big deal. That was not faith. It was babble. It sounded good but was nothing but a gush of nonfaith. Just like Christians today spout. Drivel.

James was right though. Job feared God and did endure till the end. And God in His love for Job, reinstated him and blessed him. But look at the crap that Job spewed. Blaming God, speaking death and destruction, blah blah yadda yadda....Just like us modern people. Job was no different. Why do you deify him? He was upright and uptight. Not perfect as in without blemish.

This has got to be the most flagrantly ignorant interpretation I have heard on Job in my walk....but par for the course for WOF condemnation specialists, who heed to doctrines of demons and seducing spirits, and have no root in the Word...but place their perosnal faith in their personal faith....

 

[Meggido]

Herein lies the problem with this post. (in red)

God says Job was already perfect & upright in all of his ways & this false teacher makes God out to be a liar.

Paul Ellis is a false teacher, a false preacher, & a liar.

God is true & any man who disagrees with God is a liar.

Why did G777 say this?


Because he knew he would draw fire from others.

This is a good example that if someone teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible, you can't trust anything they say.

Its amazing the lengths WOF goes to change things.....many WOF churches stopped playing any of Matt Redmans music because of his song blessed be the name of the Lord....the truth offends those engaged in doctrines of devils and seducing spirits...

I watched Carl Lentz of Hillsong NY last night, essentially tell his church that if the truth offends a certain people group...check yourself Christian...and dont always play the GOD CARD....he then admitted Donald Trump is bad for the country and that more people identify with Hillary and the liberal agenda in the US than Trump and that he does too....

He very subtly and shrewdly turned God's grace into lasciviousness because he said Jesus picks even gender confused and people in alternative lifestyles to carry the gospel...we should not see what is wrong with people but just love them and let them carry Jesus.....my take away...Hill-song endorses LGTG people to spread the Gospel....and see past their blatant sinful lifestyle....cuz it dont matter, except fer love..

Disclaimer-I am not a trump supporter and voted 3rd Party-Darrel Castle out of Tennessee

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a response from the leader of Hillsong concerning gays in leadership roles or in worship roles.

Quote:

Hillsong Church Statement by Senior Pastor Brian Houston

August 2015


I wish to correct reports that Hillsong church has “an openly gay couple directing a choir” at our New York City campus. Hillsong’s position on homosexuality and gay marriage has not changed and is consistent with Scripture. As I have stated previously, I believe the writings of Paul are clear on this subject.

Several months ago when one of our choir directors made an unexpected public statement regarding his engagement to a man who sometimes sang in the choir, it was a complete surprise to us as well. It is my understanding that they have not been involved in an active leadership or ministry role since. That said, we still love them and acknowledge that they – like all of us – are on a journey, and our role as a church is to assist them on this journey with grace and compassion.

Unquote:

https://hillsong.com/media-releases/hillsong-church-statement-by-senior-pastor-brian-houston/



Here is his talk about "Does he love gay people?"

https://hillsong.com/collected/blog/2015/08/do-i-love-gay-people/#.WYiSWxtK1fw


I don't for a second endorse the homosexual lifestyle - it is as destructive as is malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are in the same lists together as works of the flesh.