Romans 7:6

[newton3003]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Romans7:6 says, “But now we are released from the Law, having died tothat which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of theSpirit and not in the old way of the written code.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]That'svery interesting, is it not? It infers that because of what Jesus hasgiven us and what he offers us, we need not follow the Law of the OldTestament. After all, Jesus died for our sins, and in doing so he hasoffered us a new beginning so the “old way of the written code”no longer matters? So what now? What is left?[/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Whatis left is the light of Jesus that shows us the way to God. Jesustells us that nobody has access to God except through him, and bythat he means through his understanding and practice of what Godwants. Prior to Jesus the scribes and Pharisees pulled the Jews awayfrom the Law. The things they did, included gambling in God's Temple,and on the Sabbath, no less! Other things included their notpracticing the true Law as they preached it, and in so doing had seta poor example of what God through the Law intended. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Indying for our sins, Jesus provided for us a new beginning. So wheredo we go from here? When Jesus arrived on the scene, he says in Matthew 5:17, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law orthe Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”Does that absolve us the from responsibility of abiding by the Law,leaving that responsibility to Jesus? On the contrary, Jesus tells usthat the whole Law, all 400-plus parts of it, can be summed up in two commandments: That WE love God with all our heart, soul and mind,and WE love our neighbor as WE love ourselves. We therefore stillhave the responsibility of the Law. What Jesus did was to give us aclean slate, free from the transgresses of the Law that wereundertaken and were encouraged by the scribes and Pharisees of thepast, though well after the reign of King Solomon.[/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Tothat end, James 2:10 says “...whoever keeps the whole law but failsin one point has become guilty of all of it.” And Jesus himself, in Matthew 5:19 says, “Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least ofthese commandments and teaches others to do the same will be calledleast in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teachesthem will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” And in thatregard, Galatians 6:5 says, “For each will have to bear his ownload.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]So,the Law did not go away when Jesus gave us a new beginning...hemerely brought us back to its roots. The Law, therefore, is stillwith us. So, we are obligated to abide by the Law, once we know ofits existence. And having known of its existence we are cursed toabiding by all of the Law, not just parts of it. Galatians 3:10 says,“For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it iswritten, 'Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things writtenin the Book of the Law, and do them.'” Where is that written? It iswritten in Deuteronomy 27:26 of the Old Testament. So you see, theLaw has never left us. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Whatdoes it mean to be accountable for all of the Law, as opposed to partof it? Well, look at our politicians who are influenced by theevangelicals. The evangelicals want our politicians to enact andmaintain laws against abortion and homosexuality. The Bible makes itclear that abortion is murder, and homosexuality is an abomination.However, the Bible also says to help the poor and needy. On this,apparently, the evangelicals are silent on this, because the sameevangelical-influenced politicians who have enacted laws againstabortion and homosexuality, want to drastically cut laws that providehelp to the poor and needy! So, according to James 2:10 they areguilty of not keeping the whole law. I tell you that Jesus would callthem hypocrites. And anyone who follows them are as accountable asthose who, in the past, did what the scribes and Pharisees did. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Itis clear that as far, even as far as the two great commandments ofJesus goes, you're either all in or you're all out.[/FONT]

 

[TruthTalk]

Romans7:6 says, “But now we are released from the Law, having died tothat which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of theSpirit and not in the old way of the written code.”

Itis clear that as far, even as far as the two great commandments ofJesus goes, you're either all in or you're all out.

"But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises." Hebrews8:6

Amen! count me in.

 

[TruthTalk]

Romans7:6 says, “But now we are released from the Law, having died tothat which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of theSpirit and not in the old way of the written code.”

Prior to Jesus the scribes and Pharisees pulled the Jews away from the Law. The things they did, included gambling in God's Temple,and on the Sabbath, no less! Other things included their not practicing the true Law as they preached it, and in so doing had set a poor example of what God through the Law intended.

This is another excellent point; God's Law was intended to bring us to Christ our Messiah that was foretold by the prophets of old, for salvation of our soul and spirit; whereas the Law of Moses was never intended to save. The Law was a tutor to bring us to Jesus/Messiah. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[OneFaith]

God's law still stands- its just that we obey it spiritually instead of physically. Under Moses you could not commit murder, but under Christ if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder, whether or not you carry it out physically.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well then, even more ways to fail.

Perhaps then, it is not about the failure but the victory IN Christ since we will fail but He did not.

God's law still stands- its just that we obey it spiritually instead of physically. Under Moses you could not commit murder, but under Christ if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder, whether or not you carry it out physically.

 

[TruthTalk]

God's moral Law and the Prophets still stands; "Thou shalt not commit murder; the cerimonial Laws and feast days do not. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew5:7

Now that we are saved; we are not perfected by the works of the Law.

 

[TruthTalk]

God's law still stands- its just that we obey it spiritually instead of physically. Under Moses you could not commit murder, but under Christ if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder, whether or not you carry it out physically.

"

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Romans6:14. Please excuse me I borrowed UnderGrace's signiture. I hope that does not count as stealing; "to take something without permission" ​

 

[TruthTalk]

The knowledge of sin and death was brought to you and I through the Law of Moses; but Grace and Life came through Jesus Christ; Some wonderful and kind meaning Christians want to return to the works of the Law, after Jesus set's them free from the works of the Law - isn't that like running from glorious light- into empty darkness.

 

[Meggido]

Romans7:6 says, “But now we are released from the Law, having died tothat which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of theSpirit and not in the old way of the written code.”


That'svery interesting, is it not? It infers that because of what Jesus hasgiven us and what he offers us, we need not follow the Law of the OldTestament. After all, Jesus died for our sins, and in doing so he hasoffered us a new beginning so the “old way of the written code”no longer matters? So what now? What is left?


Whatis left is the light of Jesus that shows us the way to God. Jesustells us that nobody has access to God except through him, and bythat he means through his understanding and practice of what Godwants. Prior to Jesus the scribes and Pharisees pulled the Jews awayfrom the Law. The things they did, included gambling in God's Temple,and on the Sabbath, no less! Other things included their notpracticing the true Law as they preached it, and in so doing had seta poor example of what God through the Law intended.


Indying for our sins, Jesus provided for us a new beginning. So wheredo we go from here? When Jesus arrived on the scene, he says in Matthew 5:17, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law orthe Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”Does that absolve us the from responsibility of abiding by the Law,leaving that responsibility to Jesus? On the contrary, Jesus tells usthat the whole Law, all 400-plus parts of it, can be summed up in two commandments: That WE love God with all our heart, soul and mind,and WE love our neighbor as WE love ourselves. We therefore stillhave the responsibility of the Law. What Jesus did was to give us aclean slate, free from the transgresses of the Law that wereundertaken and were encouraged by the scribes and Pharisees of thepast, though well after the reign of King Solomon.


Tothat end, James 2:10 says “...whoever keeps the whole law but failsin one point has become guilty of all of it.” And Jesus himself, in Matthew 5:19 says, “Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least ofthese commandments and teaches others to do the same will be calledleast in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teachesthem will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” And in thatregard, Galatians 6:5 says, “For each will have to bear his ownload.”


So,the Law did not go away when Jesus gave us a new beginning...hemerely brought us back to its roots. The Law, therefore, is stillwith us. So, we are obligated to abide by the Law, once we know ofits existence. And having known of its existence we are cursed toabiding by all of the Law, not just parts of it. Galatians 3:10 says,“For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it iswritten, 'Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things writtenin the Book of the Law, and do them.'” Where is that written? It iswritten in Deuteronomy 27:26 of the Old Testament. So you see, theLaw has never left us.


Whatdoes it mean to be accountable for all of the Law, as opposed to partof it? Well, look at our politicians who are influenced by theevangelicals. The evangelicals want our politicians to enact andmaintain laws against abortion and homosexuality. The Bible makes itclear that abortion is murder, and homosexuality is an abomination.However, the Bible also says to help the poor and needy. On this,apparently, the evangelicals are silent on this, because the sameevangelical-influenced politicians who have enacted laws againstabortion and homosexuality, want to drastically cut laws that providehelp to the poor and needy! So, according to James 2:10 they areguilty of not keeping the whole law. I tell you that Jesus would callthem hypocrites. And anyone who follows them are as accountable asthose who, in the past, did what the scribes and Pharisees did.


Itis clear that as far, even as far as the two great commandments ofJesus goes, you're either all in or you're all out.

Romans 2.14 says Gentiles were never under the law, so why are you saying they are?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

 

[DustyRhodes]

Freedom in Christ
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Gal.3

Romans 8: [h=3]Love Fulfills the Law[/h][SUP]8 [/SUP]Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Matt.9:
[h=1]Matthew 9:17New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][SUP]17 [/SUP]Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”

Once we are in the Spirit we can not observe the old law however the Spirit fulfils all the law and as it says
in Hebrews 8...once the new covenant is put in place, the old one is made obsolete.

 

[posthuman]

“O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?”
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
(1 Corinthians 15:55-57)
​

every one of you reading this can more than likely quote verse 55 here by heart, whether you knew the 'chapter & verse' number or not.
but have you also read verse 56, and rejoiced with verse 57?

 

[unobtrusive]

In the same chapter of Romans 7:6 (according to the OP) Paul continues in verse 7, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law:" (The law tells us our true state of carnality, giving us reason to want a saviour from certain death)

Continuing to verse 12, Paul says that the law is holy, just and good. "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

Then he says, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." (verse 14)

The law exposes sin's power over us, and what is spiritual, holy, just, and good, cannot produce sin, we produce sin because of the fallen state we are born into, just like Paul.

Without the law we would have no reason for a Saviour in our own minds.

 

[unobtrusive]

In addition to post #12, I quote;

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." (Galatians 3:19 KJV)

 

[graceNpeace]

In addition to post #12, I quote;

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." (Galatians 3:19 KJV)

This is not incorrect but inadequate.
Go back to the Book of Romans and read from the beginning.
The law, as given to Moses only had the effects you note on those who had the law (Jews alone).
However, every society on earth has a codified system of law (and this has been true from ancient times).
Most of the laws deal with similar issues across the different systems of law.

It is very possible for people who have no knowledge of the law as given to Moses to be convicted of their sins and condemned according to their sins. Paul spends the whole of Romans chapter 1-3 comparing the situation between Jews and Gentiles.
And guess what?
The end result is the same!
The law, in any form, convicts and it condemns.
Both Jew and Gentile are condemned by any system of law that they know!

No one who chooses not to is bound by the law of the Mosaic Covenant!
No Gentile has ever been expected to obey Mosaic law in history.

And, as New Covenant believers, none of us are under the law of the Mosaic Covenant since Jesus Christ fully fulfilled the demands of that law and became the ultimate sacrifice for sin under that system, on our behalf.

That does not mean that one immediately becomes an antinomian.
No!
The law that we follow is the law of love and is encapsulated, as far as our behavior toward our fellow man is concerned, in the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23).
This is not a list of don'ts but a list of do's!
Those do's are much more morally challenging than merely avoiding sin!
(To get the full context of Paul's explanation of the fruit of the Spirit read the whole of Galatians!)
Obviously, we also love God in accordance with the fact that He first loved us (1John 4:19).

Mosaic law (all of it - including the ten commandments) was only ever given to Israel and was only ever meant to be for Israel.
New Covenant believers are not subject to the this code of law.
The fact that the New Covenant includes many moral principles that can be found in Mosaic law changes nothing.

 

[unobtrusive]

This is not incorrect but inadequate.
Go back to the Book of Romans and read from the beginning.
The law, as given to Moses only had the effects you note on those who had the law (Jews alone).
However, every society on earth has a codified system of law (and this has been true from ancient times).
Most of the laws deal with similar issues across the different systems of law.

It is very possible for people who have no knowledge of the law as given to Moses to be convicted of their sins and condemned according to their sins. Paul spends the whole of Romans chapter 1-3 comparing the situation between Jews and Gentiles.
And guess what?
The end result is the same!
The law, in any form, convicts and it condemns.
Both Jew and Gentile are condemned by any system of law that they know!

No one who chooses not to is bound by the law of the Mosaic Covenant!
No Gentile has ever been expected to obey Mosaic law in history.

And, as New Covenant believers, none of us are under the law of the Mosaic Covenant since Jesus Christ fully fulfilled the demands of that law and became the ultimate sacrifice for sin under that system, on our behalf.

That does not mean that one immediately becomes an antinomian.
No!
The law that we follow is the law of love and is encapsulated, as far as our behavior toward our fellow man is concerned, in the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23).
This is not a list of don'ts but a list of do's!
Those do's are much more morally challenging than merely avoiding sin!
(To get the full context of Paul's explanation of the fruit of the Spirit read the whole of Galatians!)
Obviously, we also love God in accordance with the fact that He first loved us (1John 4:19).

Mosaic law (all of it - including the ten commandments) was only ever given to Israel and was only ever meant to be for Israel.
New Covenant believers are not subject to the this code of law.
The fact that the New Covenant includes many moral principles that can be found in Mosaic law changes nothing.

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22 KJV)

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47 KJV)

Paul said, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" And he said to the Gentiles at Corinth, "Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me." (Acts 24:14 and 1 Corinthians 4:16KJV)

If the Torah/Law is not for you as a Gentile, sojourner, or stranger, what other method do you use to properly worship our Saviour, Jesus the true Christ?

"Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God." (Leviticus 24:22 KJV)

 

[graceNpeace]

Not one of the quoted texts has anything to do with what I said!

As for Lev 24:22 that only ever applied to a Gentile that wanted to live as a Jew within Israel - it certainly has no other context.

I certainly DO NOT need the Torah in order to worship God!
Do you not know that God was worshipped before the Law was given?

 

[unobtrusive]

However, every society on earth has a codified system of law (and this has been true from ancient times).
Most of the laws deal with similar issues across the different systems of law.

Most Pharisees during Jesus day were not of the Levitical persuasion as in the law of Moses. They were mostly of the tribe of Judah. They had their own traditions, and had inadvertently forsaken the real persuasion of the law. This is what Jesus said to those hypocrites (pretenders) concerning their traditions of men, not God."Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23 KJV)

Just curious, do you celebrate Lent instead of the feast of weeks, Easter instead of Passover (Unleavened Bread), Christmas (Christ-mass) instead of Tabernacles?

Not arguing, just wondering, and then I'll let it all rest with you. Thank you in advance. (smile)

 

[unobtrusive]

Not one of the quoted texts has anything to do with what I said!

As for Lev 24:22 that only ever applied to a Gentile that wanted to live as a Jew within Israel - it certainly has no other context.

I certainly DO NOT need the Torah in order to worship God!
Do you not know that God was worshipped before the Law was given?

One must add Jesus Christ to that equation "before the law" because He is Creator of all things including the law. Keep in mind that He is the voice of His Father. Israel heard Him at Mount Sinai.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5 KJV)

"Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries." (Exodus 23:20-22 KJV)

"obey his voice, and do all that I speak;"
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Hebrews 13:8 KJV)
Amazing, ain't it?

 

[Meggido]

In the same chapter of Romans 7:6 (according to the OP) Paul continues in verse 7, "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law:" (The law tells us our true state of carnality, giving us reason to want a saviour from certain death)

Continuing to verse 12, Paul says that the law is holy, just and good. "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

Then he says, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." (verse 14)

The law exposes sin's power over us, and what is spiritual, holy, just, and good, cannot produce sin, we produce sin because of the fallen state we are born into, just like Paul.

Without the law we would have no reason for a Saviour in our own minds.

Proper context of Romans 7 means the reader should be able to discern Paul was talking to the Jews in Romans 7, because Gentiles were not under the law ever...and still are not under the law...but if you want to put yourself there, you will also be condemned by the Law...

Romans 2.12

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

 

[Meggido]

If the Torah/Law is not for you as a Gentile, sojourner, or stranger, what other method do you use to properly worship our Saviour, Jesus the true Christ?

John 4.24

[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.