There Is No Such Thing As the Age of Accountability

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Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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#21
David said of his infant that died that the baby could not return to him but he could go where he is.. So where is David? In Hell? I don't think so
2 Samuel 12:[SUP]19 [/SUP]But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?[SUP] 23 [/SUP]But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

This does give more hope in Christ Jesus that the believing parent shall be reunited with the passing of even an infant.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
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#22
In some sects of Judaism there is a ritual for the children called right of passage at the age of 12. And in the OT, there is the age mentioned of either 20 or 21, for a young married man to remain at home with his wife before going to war. I've always wondered if 21 that we have chosen for a time reference of maturity came from this.
Hi Stone,


I think you mean their Bar(Bat)Mitzva and they're 13.


And in the OT when God had the men numbered, He chose the age of 20.


Numbers 1:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying, “Take a census of all the congregation of the sons of Israel, by their families, by their fathers’ households, according to the number of names, every male, head by head from twenty years old and upward, whoever is able to go out to war in Israel, you and Aaron shall number them by their armies.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#23
No, it's called rite of passage. One of the churches I visited here in my city did it for their 12 yr olds. I had never heard if it before, then Lynn talked about it in one of her threads just recently. I think she mentioned the ebionites.

Thanks for letting me know it was 20.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#24
No, it's called rite of passage. One of the churches I visited here in my city did it for their 12 yr olds. I had never heard if it before, then Lynn talked about it in one of her threads just recently. I think she mentioned the ebionites.Thanks for letting me know it was 20.
Oh, okay. I thought you were referring to their coming of age celebration and were calling it something else. :)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#25
I have no idea what the difference would be Rose. But, doesn't all Hebrew children have bar Mitzvah?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#26
Yeah sure.....tell that to David who knew he would go to his infant son who paid the price for his sin!
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#27
I have no idea what the difference would be Rose. But, doesn't all Hebrew children have bar Mitzvah?
Yes, but at first they only did it for the boys; Bar Mitzvah.


But later added girls; Bat Mitzvah.


Also it's a fairly modern tradition. Many think it comes from the Torah, but it doesn't.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#28
Hi Stone,

I just looked up rite of passage. We're talking about the same thing, it's 13 years of age. I have some Jewish friends and they call it coming of age. So maybe 'rite of passage' is the official name for it.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#29
I thought that there was the bosom of Abraham where the Jews and those who joined them went. A 2 part "hell" where Jesus went and preached. Would not David now be in Paradise along with his infant son and all family?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#30
Hi Stone,

I just looked up rite of passage. We're talking about the same thing, it's 13 years of age. I have some Jewish friends and they call it coming of age. So maybe 'rite of passage' is the official name for it.
oh, well maybe it was a class thing that they were acting out. It was just a visit; not a church we went to regularly.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
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#31
Babies are unable to comprehend the scriptures in the womb as they are still developing. Unsure where you are getting at, there are no babies in Hell not to mention God is merciful. So even if a baby leave this world without hearing his word they will go to him.
Their mind may not understand but their spirit will.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#32
Psalm 58:[SUP]3 [/SUP]The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

That also means there is no age of innocence. Granted, God will punish those who corrupt a child, but we were all born into sin.

Psalm 51:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So what does that mean for parents? You can preach the gospel now to even the little babies. Talk about a captive audience for your testimonies and spiritual songs about the Lord Jesus Christ for lullabies.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Even for pregnant mothers, you can pray to the Father that He will reveal His Son to your unborn child.

Psalm 139:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them![SUP]18 [/SUP]If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

Believe this truth that little children and babies are free to come to Him for all they can do is trust the Lord at His word.

Mark 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

They need not do any works to make their simple faith in Him as saving faith. Believing in Him is saving faith.

Teaching children that are saved believers now, to ALSO trust in Him as their Good Shepherd since He is in them and is with them always to help them do the right thing and love others as He would lead & enable us to do is the job of the parent in leading by example too in your everyday lives. So trust the Lord today as your Good Shepherd to help you point them to Christ Jesus for all things; not just for salvation by simply believing in Him, but for getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection when by trusting Him as their Good Shepherd to take care of them and lead them in the way they ought to go in abiding in His words as kept in the KJV, they will see Him walk them through this valley of death to fear no evil.
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I knit you together in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born I set you apart to be a prophet to the nations."

If you take an apple seed, and an orange seed, and look at them, you already know what they are. Before you plant them, and water runs through them to produce juice, you know whether it will be flavored apple juice or orange juice, and what their fruit will be like. In the same way, God knows whether a baby will be a righteous or unrighteousness person, if given the chance.

When speaking of children, the Bible says the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these- notice He didn't say all of these. Therefore, the same can be said of adults, or teens, or any age group- the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as those too, but not all of those.

Having said that though, yes there is an age of accountability- and that is when a child quits growing taller. Till then they are under the authority of their parents. The Bible says children don't know sin, and it also says even a child is known by his actions whether his conduct is pure and right. This sounds conflicting, but even as adults we are still learning about what is sin and what is not, and we are given a time to be corrected. In Revelation it says God gave Jezabelle time to change, and she would not change. But God foreknew that before she was created in the womb.

Therefore, the age of accountability is really only relevant to us. It's when a man knows to leave his father and mother and be united to his wife to start a family of his own.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#33
according to the Law given through Moses, why are males not circumcised until the 8th day?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#34
Psalm 58:[SUP]3 [/SUP]The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

That also means there is no age of innocence. Granted, God will punish those who corrupt a child, but we were all born into sin.

Psalm 51:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

So what does that mean for parents? You can preach the gospel now to even the little babies. Talk about a captive audience for your testimonies and spiritual songs about the Lord Jesus Christ for lullabies.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Even for pregnant mothers, you can pray to the Father that He will reveal His Son to your unborn child.

Psalm 139:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them![SUP]18 [/SUP]If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

Believe this truth that little children and babies are free to come to Him for all they can do is trust the Lord at His word.

Mark 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

They need not do any works to make their simple faith in Him as saving faith. Believing in Him is saving faith.

Teaching children that are saved believers now, to ALSO trust in Him as their Good Shepherd since He is in them and is with them always to help them do the right thing and love others as He would lead & enable us to do is the job of the parent in leading by example too in your everyday lives. So trust the Lord today as your Good Shepherd to help you point them to Christ Jesus for all things; not just for salvation by simply believing in Him, but for getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection when by trusting Him as their Good Shepherd to take care of them and lead them in the way they ought to go in abiding in His words as kept in the KJV, they will see Him walk them through this valley of death to fear no evil.

The above is false. God would not send a child to the lake of fire before he/she even understands what sin is!


"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
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#35


Hi Stone,


I think you mean their Bar(Bat)Mitzva and they're 13.


And in the OT when God had the men numbered, He chose the age of 20.


Numbers 1:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying, “Take a census of all the congregation of the sons of Israel, by their families, by their fathers’ households, according to the number of names, every male, head by head from twenty years old and upward, whoever is able to go out to war in Israel, you and Aaron shall number them by their armies.
Hi DR

You're right about the Bar Mitzvah and the age of 13.

I have a question...

Is the sin of Adam imputed to all mankind,,,,
OR only it's effects?

I don't find a cohesive doctrine on this...
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
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#36
according to the Law given through Moses, why are males not circumcised until the 8th day?
Hi PH

I learned once that a person bleeds the least on the eighth day of life.
It was interesting to learn this.
Seems like God always gives good intructions!


P.S.
Baby cat is good.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
1,715
113
#37
Romans 7:7-10
King James version(KJV)

7.)What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8.)But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9.)For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10.)And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
+++
sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law.Before Paul got saved,he was under law so then when was he once without the law.This would have to be talking about the age of accountability.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#38
Hi PH

I learned once that a person bleeds the least on the eighth day of life.
It was interesting to learn this.
Seems like God always gives good intructions!


P.S.
Baby cat is good.
I've been meaning to ask you about your kitty =]
Good to hear

And what you've heard is interesting too - so for the first seven days, was a male Israelite child treated like "uncircumcised" - cut off from the people?
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#39
I've been meaning to ask you about your kitty =]
Good to hear

And what you've heard is interesting too - so for the first seven days, was a male Israelite child treated like "uncircumcised" - cut off from the people?
Great question.
Read a great book years ago...
The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah.
If I can find the answer, I'll post.