Virgin perpetual birth, and catholics??

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Dai3234

Senior Member
#1
Sep 6, 2016
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#1
Hi, I was conversing with a catholic chat trying to understand how they still believe Catholicism. I asked about the virgin perpetual birth but they led me to believe its dogma/law and I said it seemed to be frowned upon that the Pharisees were putting tradition and non-laws/extended burden laws on people and that dogma, if it is not in the bible, how can they believe and follow it?

How do I work at convincing people who are catholic to listen and look a little better and how and where should I tackle them. As dogma is Pharisee burden yes??

Also, they seem a little versed than c/c.

Thanks.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#2
#2
Blind leading the blind, sums it up,
 
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Dai3234

Senior Member
#3
Sep 6, 2016
524
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i meant less versed than c/c. they don't seem to know their own bible very well,
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#4
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
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#4
Rather than focusing on Mary, focus on Jesus. The true Jesus, not the false Catholic one. And talk about Jesus saving, not the church, and repentance, as opposed to penance.

The RCC is just rife with major doctrinal errors. But you don't have to disprove anything, but rather, prove who Jesus is, and that he saves us by his grace.

That would be my starting point. But remember, Catholics are so attached to tradition and their church, and very brainwashed, so prayer has to be an essential part of the battle. Pray for God to soften their hearts, so they might hear who Jesus is, as he is preached!
 
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Dai3234

Senior Member
#5
Sep 6, 2016
524
4
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#5
Angela53510 said:
Rather than focusing on Mary, focus on Jesus. The true Jesus, not the false Catholic one. And talk about Jesus saving, not the church, and repentance, as opposed to penance.

The RCC is just rife with major doctrinal errors. But you don't have to disprove anything, but rather, prove who Jesus is, and that he saves us by his grace.

That would be my starting point. But remember, Catholics are so attached to tradition and their church, and very brainwashed, so prayer has to be an essential part of the battle. Pray for God to soften their hearts, so they might hear who Jesus is, as he is preached!
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You may be correct, but I think it may be helpful to mildly point people to "Apps" for verse comparisons as much as we can, saying and explaining gently that their are older texts etc. Maybe they will see more themelves then.

But yes, I even mentioned the second commandment and they say its only applying to the old commandment before they saw jesus mary and the saints etc. Though, they don't know what either look like etc. So yes, a hard sell.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#6
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#6
Many catholics believe that the Bible is the authority, they just do not know it or do not read it.

So when you can lead them to see what is in the Bible about various catholic dogmas (you can start with the easy ones) and if they will be honest and accept that the RCC is wrong in this or that, you will have easier way to discuss more "extrabiblical" dogmas.

Its very hard on public chats and forums, though. Its easier in one-to-one convo.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#7
#7
One way to start is by, mentioning that wanting folks to have more wine isn't a compassionate act of kindness, thus pray to Mary and she will be your Intercessor, this is not what the wedding in Cana was about at all.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#8
Jul 3, 2015
55,885
26,046
113
#8
The virgin birth of Jesus is affirmed by Scripture. What it seems you are talking about is the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is of course nonsense, since Jesus had other brothers and sisters, two of whom have books in the Bible (James and Jude). Neither the virgin birth, however, nor the perpetual virginity of Mary, are ex cathedra dogmas.

The two ex cathedra dogmas that Roman Catholics are mandated to believe are the immaculate conception of Mary, and the bodily assumption of Mary to heaven, without her dying. Some people get a bit confused and think that the immaculate conceptions explains how Jesus was conceived, but that is not what it concerns. Roman Catholics believe that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin from the moment of her conception. The worst part is they believe this is true in order that Jesus would be born sinless, as if God needed that sort of help.

Essentially they are told to believe that she was not born in Adam as is the rest of the world since the fall of all creation, and that she also did not suffer the consequence of sin, which is death. Out of this come other errors, for instance, insisting Jesus was an only child, as if Mary having relations with her husband would somehow taint her and make her a sinner. They are told to pray to her, despite the explicit instruction from Jesus to pray to the Father. They say she will mediate between them and God when Scripture proclaims the truth of there being only one intercessor, and His name is Jesus. They adore and idolize her, elevating her far above what Jesus ever did in His own life, and they devote the month of May to her.

You may never convince any of them that any of what they do is wrong and anti-Scriptural, though. They believe Peter is the rock that Jesus is building His church upon, as opposed to a Holy Spirit led confession of faith in Christ. They insist on priests being celibate when they never were in the new (or old) testament church, and they practice infant baptism, when in the early church, only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptized as a public testimony of their faith and identification with Him.

Question: "Are Catholic beliefs and practices biblical?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

Here are a couple of sites that detail some of the changing beliefs of the RCC:

Catholicism's Ever-Changing Doctrine

Doctrinal evolution: Roman Catholic doctrinal flip flops
 
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