REFORMED THEOLOGY CRITICS - BE CONSISTENT AND DON'T LISTEN TO REFORMED TEACHERS

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Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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#21
How can it be "the most sound" if Reformed Theology holds to the Five Points of Calvinism? Not a single point in TULIP is "sound" since it controverts plain Bible truth. In the end they have to resort to the travesty that a sinner must be born again BEFORE he can believe the Gospel. Think of the absurdity of that. And if God predestines some to Heaven, it follows logically that He predestines the majority to Hell. Think on that for a moment.
Well you can disagree with me, but when looking at the bible as a whole, I just see God's hand and sovereignity all over it, yet not in a way that men are not responsible for their actions.

What we believe is that men is already going to hell, God out of his mercy and grace chooses some of those who were going to hell to save them, and leaves the rest to fulfil their fleshly desires.

It's God who grants saving faith, without faith none would be saved, and we know faith is a gift of God, so in order for someone to believe, he needs the holy spirit convicting him first, then he can believe, that's what we believe as well.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#22
Think of the absurdity of that.
All 5 points are Biblical and sound.

It's not absurd, it's biblical. What is absurd is man thinking he has the ability.

Scripture denies this.

Maybe you should read some more Scripture? You're concerned over God's justice in punishing man for sin, you see it as a travesty if some are passed over and will face eternal consequences for their sin, as of God would be unjust in so doing? Basically you're filling the shoes of the Romans 9:20 man.

And by the way, we don't teach God predestined men to hell. You may, but we do not save a few.

Many who believe God predestines men to hell at the same time reject that He predestined some to heaven. Think about that for a moment, and the latter therefore cannot be true if the former is not true itself. It is a hypocritical double standard and is therefore blindly used to slight another.

You may be in that absurd camp yourself. This all shows the inconsistent hermeneutic and doctrines of those who reject orthodox teachings. They must hold to a double standard of application of their philosophies, definitions, hermeneutics in order to maintain their error.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#23
Do you know there were and still are churches that didn't need to reform ? Not Catholic either.
This is true, but not widely known. There were always biblical and evangelical churches since the Apostolic period, which taught the true Gospel and did not come under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox churches. Also, while the Reformers tried to formulate their doctrines on the basis of the Bible, they accepted Augustinian theology wholeheartedly, and could not get rid of some their Catholic baggage (e.g. calling the ordinances "sacraments").
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#24
All 5 points are Biblical and sound.

It's not absurd, it's biblical. What is absurd is man thinking he has the ability.

Scripture denies this.

Maybe you should read some more Scripture? You're concerned over God's justice in punishing man for sin, you see it as a travesty if some are passed over and will face eternal consequences for their sin, as of God would be unjust in so doing? Basically you're filling the shoes of the Romans 9:20 man.

And by the way, we don't teach God predestined men to hell. You may, but we do not save a few.

Many who believe God predestines men to hell at the same time reject that He predestined some to heaven. Think about that for a moment, and the latter therefore cannot be true if the former is not true itself. It is a hypocritical double standard and is therefore blindly used to slight another.

You may be in that absurd camp yourself. This all shows the inconsistent hermeneutic and doctrines of those who reject orthodox teachings. They must hold to a double standard of application of their philosophies, definitions, hermeneutics in order to maintain their error.
Jesus was not a Calvinist. Jesus preached whosoever will may come. Jesus preached that message even though He knew the Jews would reject Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#25
I find it amusing that some of the critics of Reformed theology here have admitted to me that they listen to Reformed teachers and have benefitted from them.

The amusing thing is that Reformed teachers are the STRONGEST defenders of orthodox Christianity including the five Solas.

They aren't the ones jumping over pews and pretending to be Holy Ghost ninjas, etcetera..it's the non-Reformed people who are playing those games, as well as the Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jews/Torah observers who can't seem to get it through their heads that the Mosaic Covenant CAN'T be in effect without the Temple and Levitical priesthood..it's one integrated system.

I think anti-Reformed people should be consistent and never listen to Reformed theologians, because they are biting the hand that feeds them.

If they relied on solely on non-Reformed teachers they'd likely be raving heretics. And...it's largely the non-Reformed people that have the sex scandals, etcetera, as well as being very liberal regarding divorces and women pastors.


​ I have to wonder why people at CC keep bringing up subjects that cause discord and hurt among members. Works,tongues,Calvinism, I keep seeing pages and pages of arguing,for what reason? There are things we will not agree on. So why is it brought up time and time again with the same result? smh It does nothing for the kingdom. Start a thread about missions and see how long it lasts compared to "works" threads. Its a sad commentary on CC.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#26
Jesus was not a Calvinist. Jesus preached whosoever will may come. Jesus preached that message even though He knew the Jews would reject Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Even such good will have its source in God.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
398
32
28
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#27
​ I have to wonder why people at CC keep bringing up subjects that cause discord and hurt among members. Works,tongues,Calvinism, I keep seeing pages and pages of arguing,for what reason? There are things we will not agree on. So why is it brought up time and time again with the same result? smh It does nothing for the kingdom. Start a thread about missions and see how long it lasts compared to "works" threads. Its a sad commentary on CC.
It surprises me how long the thread about works has lasted, and how much discussion there's on it, I guess people like to disagree and talk about these things. :confused:
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#29
And by the way, we don't teach God predestined men to hell. You may, but we do not save a few.
Well Preacher, you should take a very close look at the Westminster Confession of Faith.
[h=3]Chapter III[/h][h=2]Of God's Eternal Decree[/h]I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]


II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]


III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]


IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]


V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]


VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

What Reformed Theology is teaching here is that:

1. God has DECREED that many will be in eternal Hell, not that through His foreknowledge He knows who will not believe the Gospel.


2. "Others are FOREORDAINED to eternal death" means that it is God who has predestined many for Hell.

3. Therefore God elects some for salvation and elects many for damnation.

You will not find any such nonsense in Scripture, so we will take just one verse to prove that Reformed Theology is NOT sound doctrine (Revelation 22:17).

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#31
It surprises me how long the thread about works has lasted, and how much discussion there's on it, I guess people like to disagree and talk about these things. :confused:

​Exactly! I know this is a discussion forum,but when it continues to be a tail chasing effort then why bother? Then its just arguing for arguments sake. And should we be arguing over such things? Bringing discord? I dont think so. At some point its time to let it drop.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#33
I can listen to and learn from just about anyone :)
I refuse to listen to and learn from just about anyone. If we listen to false teachers/preachers/prophets, it's "garbage in, garbage out"

I must know the fruit of the person before I will listen to them.
:)
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#34
Well Preacher, you should take a very close look at the Westminster Confession of Faith.
Chapter III

Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]


II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]


III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]


IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]


V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]


VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

What Reformed Theology is teaching here is that:

1. God has DECREED that many will be in eternal Hell, not that through His foreknowledge He knows who will not believe the Gospel.


2. "Others are FOREORDAINED to eternal death" means that it is God who has predestined many for Hell.

3. Therefore God elects some for salvation and elects many for damnation.

You will not find any such nonsense in Scripture, so we will take just one verse to prove that Reformed Theology is NOT sound doctrine (Revelation 22:17).

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
I'm familiar with the WCoF. Your mistake is not understanding the meaning, and then preaching that man decides himself into heaven because of the word "whosoever" tied to "wills." Basically you're preaching the gospel of decisionism. It's a newcomer on the scene and frankly you don't know what you're talking about, or the history of your teaching that is new to the scene as far as Christianity is concerned.

It isn't saying He predestined them to hell, but the implication is He has passed over some in his foreordination, that is, that He predetermined to save some, but not all.

Scripture denies that man is saved via his will; John 1:13, Romans 9:11ff. There is more. :)
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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#35
Sparkman,

You are absolutely right. For the sake of consistency (and consistent theology) critics of Reformed Theology should avoid its teachers. Well I for one do. And just before you get carried away in your praise for these theologians, just remember that Reformed Theology has one very major flaw. It teaches that God predestines some for damnation. You can check this out for yourself in the Westminster Confession. Now if that is not a damnable doctrine, I wonder what is?
Well said.:)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#38
How can it be "the most sound" if Reformed Theology holds to the Five Points of Calvinism? Not a single point in TULIP is "sound" since it controverts plain Bible truth. In the end they have to resort to the travesty that a sinner must be born again BEFORE he can believe the Gospel. Think of the absurdity of that. And if God predestines some to Heaven, it follows logically that He predestines the majority to Hell. Think on that for a moment.
*** You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nehemiah6 again. ***
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#39
*** You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nehemiah6 again. ***
I do not know if there is some kind of "moral codex" for using rep, but I think (and use it) for something special, not just for everybody who writes what I like... likes are for that :)