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Thread: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I have heard this talked about by him in full length messages in the past but I haven't listened to him much in the last few years as the Lord has me focusing on other areas so none are at the top of my mind right now.

    Different people have different purposes and emphasis in the body of Christ because of the anointing that is within them to teach in certain areas.

    I don't agree with what any minister or denomination says about every subject but they might have a piece of what is missing for me so I don't trash them as this will stop me from "hearing" what is of God within them.

    But if anything comes to my remembrance - I'll let you know....
    ..
    If you say you have heard him address it, I believe you and that calms me some.
    Maybe I am too hard on preachers, expecting them to cover everything at once...
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    Hey joanie and G7!
    I know not everything can be covered in a short devotional. But this is a matter where people get up to a lot of nonsense in, and as a preacher, I'm sure he's heard the nonsense and seen the nonsense. So it seems to me he would be more careful to slip in that prayer is not about fulfilling pleasures but rather needs. Maybe I'm being too hard on him. It would help if I could hear a complete sermon on the matter by him.
    I understand. The desires birthed in our prayer times with the Lord will be of Him. It is not only wants but it is really our true desires from our heart where the inner man in Christ is.

    Here is Jesus using the same Greek word for "desire" or ask.

    Matthew 7:9-11 (NASB)
    9 "Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?

    10 "Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?

    11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!


    I actually heard of a woman who wanted to marry a minister who was already married. But she had a wedding service where she married him “in the spirit,” cursing the wife and just waiting on her to die so this marriage could happen “in the flesh.” She claimed this verse gave her a promise that she could do that.

    After all, it says “whatsoever”. Isn’t coveting someone else’s mate a “whatsoever”?

    But the reason this won’t work is because the Lord hasn’t provided adultery in His atonement.

    Faith doesn’t make God move. Faith only appropriates what Jesus has already provided by His grace. Since adultery and murder aren’t part of His atonement, you can’t make Him do those things by "confessing" Him into it.

    This is why we can’t take this verse and say, “I confess with my mouth that I will rob a bank, I will make off with one million dollars, and they will not catch me.”

    We can’t do that because the Lord didn’t provide thievery for us in Christ’s atonement. The things we believe for must already be something that Jesus has provided for us through His atonement
    .

    Jesus said it is "good gifts" the Father gives us. Paul says that the things that God has prepared for us has not entered into the mind of man.
    Last edited by Grace777x70; August 12th, 2017 at 10:12 PM.

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    [QUOTE=Persuaded;3234737]
    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post

    So now we can agree.
    If we pray for our NEED.
    That is much different than praying for what we want.
    God wants us to have all we need. That is His will, but not always what we want.
    Ok...What about the scriptures that say He'll give us the desires of our hearts?
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    If you say you have heard him address it, I believe you and that calms me some.
    Maybe I am too hard on preachers, expecting them to cover everything at once...

    It is good to "look at all things" no matter who is speaking and to have these "things" ironed out because it is part of the renewing of the mind.

    I like what Daniel says about the "dissolving of doubts". Some in the body of Christ have the anointing from the Holy Spirit to help with the "dissolving of doubts" and the understanding of hard sentences to difficult things that "are in tension".

    Daniel 5:12 (KJV)
    12 Forasmuch as an excellent spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts, were found in the same Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar: now let Daniel be called, and he will shew the interpretation.

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Mark 11:24 is in line with David as Psalm 37 shows us.

    It's His desires that He gives us as we delight in Him and when we commit those desires that He has birthed in us to Him - He will bring it to pass.

    Psalm 37:4-5 (NASB)
    4 Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart.
    5 Commit your way to the LORD, Trust also in Him, and He will do it.
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???



    I love how Jesus is always pointing forward preparing his disciples for what is coming, and being a student of literature, I so enjoy his figurative language.


    First, we have the fig tree that is dead, perhaps a symbol/foreshadow of something to come.

    When Jesus the shifts his focus to the mountain (some believe the temple was on the mountain) then I have that aha moment, something is going to die but what does the mountain symbolize, it is the temple system. It is big it is firmly entrenched.


    The disciples will have to have faith that mountain (the temple system) could be moved and thrown into the sea, it would have been hard for them to understand it at the time because they did not have the full picture yet to make he connection, but we in hindsight are able to because we know the work Jesus came to accomplish.


    Then Jesus brings in forgiveness as part of moving that mountain, which is the basis of the cross …..forgiveness


    The temple system has been moved into the sea and by faith we can access his forgiveness.


    20 In the morning as they passed by, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. 21 Then Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 Jesus answered them, “Have[b] faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and if you do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received[c] it, and it will be yours.

    25 “Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.”[d]

    Mark 20-25
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    There are verses in tension though too. They say, you do not receive because you do not ask God. Okay, got it. But then it goes on to further say, or you don't receive what you ask for because you ask for the wrong reason, with the wrong motives, to fulfill your pleasures.

    This is what I don't like about WOF leaning. They seem to me to ignore the verses in tension to the ones they champion.

    So to take the verse from Mark 11:24 - if you believe you receive them you will have them, needs to be taken together with -you don't receive what you ask for because you pray with wrong motives, to fulfill your pleasure.

    I have listened to some very edifying sermons from Prince, but I think it is error to teach this as he does right here in this devotional. He hasn't covered the verses "in tension to."
    Good point. I think it is a form of blasphemy

    Planning on building bigger barns and building them to enjoy the fruits are two different things .He is watching to see if His will is being obeyed.

    If Christ does not do the first works of drawing us through his desire that comes from the hearing of faith a person can build but it does not mean God blesses it. It could tumble like the tower of Babylon .not being built on the good ground, the word of God by which we then could watch daily for our living bread the food of our Fathers will.


    And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God. Luk 12:16

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Denadii View Post
    THe verse does not say that...You do. The verse says "You shall have them." That's Gods will.
    So if I like my neighbors wife? Perhaps I am a big fan of pot and desired 50 js
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    I like the kind of faith to ask for something and believe you will receive it, that level of faith is admirable. However the key point is his will not ours, Jesus asked father if the burden of what he had to go through could be taken from him but he also added at the end if it be your will, Jesus himself said if it be your will so if all it takes is to simply believe what you ask for why was his cup not taken?

    Because even though he asked he wanted fathers will done not his own and so according to the wof belief what would that mean? When I pray it is easy to envision what i am asking for I do it all the time without even meaning to like when I ask for healing because I am in severe unbearable pain I see this flame made entirely of rainbow colors and when this flame touches me the soothing warmth of the healing being done is well the only word I can use to explain it is heavenly I mean it feels like when you get into a spa and the hot water just feels like absolute bliss.
    I don't just see it when I pray I feel it at least in my minds eye I do my body itself is still in wracking pain and is not healed, and yes one can recite the scriptures but the scriptures are not words to be chanted to make your prayers some kind of magic spell to receive what you want this isn't the movie exorcist where we repeat the scriptures and then our demons are cast away.

    Something I have learned is that yes we can ask for anything of him but we tend to confuse what we want and what we need and also that sometimes it takes more faith to ask and not receive than it does to ask and receive. God treasures a heart that trusts him even if the answer is wait and it is his timing that the answer is given not our own. To see in his realm is not to see what we are asking for in order to receive it, because sometimes we think we know what we need when he intends to use what we are trying to ask away.
    I think seeing is believing even when one has not received
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    Hey joanie and G7!
    I know not everything can be covered in a short devotional. But this is a matter where people get up to a lot of nonsense in, and as a preacher, I'm sure he's heard the nonsense and seen the nonsense. So it seems to me he would be more careful to slip in that prayer is not about fulfilling pleasures but rather needs. Maybe I'm being too hard on him. It would help if I could hear a complete sermon on the matter by him.

    For sure on that too SBG., There is much to hear both sides of and why one truth doesn't cancel out another. There are things that are just impossible to explain in one sitting. It's exactly like taking in a meal. Also like getting to know someone better and more intimately. The very thing I prayed about Jesus all along. He calmed me down about certain things I didn't understand yet in the Bible and kept me from bolting the way I was accustomed to doing and was taught to do.

    If anything sounded at all challenging to what I was taught., I didn't stay and listen. It came under the title of "am i being swayed now by every wind of doctrine because I have this question and need to know the answer for in my life??? Was I being selfish? Is this something that the devil is trying to catch me in because I'm so vulnerable in my questions and need to know??"

    It is actually a miracle that I stayed and listened about the tongues issue for instance. At the age of 57 after being saved for some 35 yrs. there was no question in my mind what I believed about tongues and what the Bible said. And so was not even willing to consider it or anyone who did it or taught it. To my mind they were nuts over run by emotion in some cases or lead of the devil in other cases..., or both. And so I had no use for them or the teaching since to my strong belief the whole thing was a lie.

    The point where I went from that extreme to the place I am today didn't happen over night. But I can say this as a major factor and that is; the Lord calmed my heart., that He has sent the Holy Spirit to be here with us and in us to be our Teacher., Comforter and Guide. If we have a need and we go to the Bible and dare to be teachable before Him., He will not let us go astray.

    I came to trust He will show me the truth., that I could go with Him in - the - process. He also gave me the confidence in my spirit the way He did about showing me I was a child of God. His Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. Rom.8:16 To know His voice and know that it was in fact not the enemy's voice. (not literal voice) How I could know the difference and not fall into some false evil teaching.

    These considerations were major coming from the Fundamental Baptist Christian teachings I held to. Some thing had to be bigger than my church teachings on certain subjects that made me ... me.

    So this goes for all matters of Biblical understanding and learning today that i come across in the Bible. The process of line upon line... building block upon building block that makes up the whole truth. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth is not a one time deal.
    And what one believer believes doesn't make it so even if that believer is someone I love and respect. I can easily allow that brother or sister to believe what they are lead to believe without feeling the need to figure them out. I know the same process is working in their lives as well. And that we do have the same Spirit working in us but C.S. Lewis's experiences in his life don't trump mine. I could not always say that before. It used to be I judged myself by others. Now I don't do that. The Spirit gives us assurance in the faith not to judge ourselves by ourselves. How awesome is that!?!




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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post

    I love how Jesus is always pointing forward preparing his disciples for what is coming, and being a student of literature, I so enjoy his figurative language.


    First, we have the fig tree that is dead, perhaps a symbol/foreshadow of something to come.

    When Jesus the shifts his focus to the mountain (some believe the temple was on the mountain) then I have that aha moment, something is going to die but what does the mountain symbolize, it is the temple system. It is big it is firmly entrenched.


    The disciples will have to have faith that mountain (the temple system) could be moved and thrown into the sea, it would have been hard for them to understand it at the time because they did not have the full picture yet to make he connection, but we in hindsight are able to because we know the work Jesus came to accomplish.


    Then Jesus brings in forgiveness as part of moving that mountain, which is the basis of the cross …..forgiveness


    The temple system has been moved into the sea and by faith we can access his forgiveness.


    20 In the morning as they passed by, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. 21 Then Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 Jesus answered them, “Have[b] faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and if you do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received[c] it, and it will be yours.

    25 “Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.”[d]

    Mark 20-25

    Just goes to show how we each learn differently. That was difficult for me to follow in your post and I don't quite get it. I'm so glad He teaches us according to our abilities and then raises us up to understand Him regardless of our abilities.
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderGrace View Post

    I love how Jesus is always pointing forward preparing his disciples for what is coming, and being a student of literature, I so enjoy his figurative language.


    First, we have the fig tree that is dead, perhaps a symbol/foreshadow of something to come.

    When Jesus the shifts his focus to the mountain (some believe the temple was on the mountain) then I have that aha moment, something is going to die but what does the mountain symbolize, it is the temple system. It is big it is firmly entrenched.


    The disciples will have to have faith that mountain (the temple system) could be moved and thrown into the sea, it would have been hard for them to understand it at the time because they did not have the full picture yet to make he connection, but we in hindsight are able to because we know the work Jesus came to accomplish.


    Then Jesus brings in forgiveness as part of moving that mountain, which is the basis of the cross …..forgiveness


    The temple system has been moved into the sea and by faith we can access his forgiveness.


    20 In the morning as they passed by, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. 21 Then Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 Jesus answered them, “Have[b] faith in God. 23 Truly I tell you, if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and if you do not doubt in your heart, but believe that what you say will come to pass, it will be done for you. 24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received[c] it, and it will be yours.

    25 “Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.”[d]

    Mark 20-25

    Had to read this a few times to get some of the gist of what you were saying. I'm also thinking of the temple having meaning of His body when Jesus said they would knock down this temple and in 3 days He will raise it up. They didn't understand what He was talking about and laughed at Him all the more for saying He could raise up what took years to build by people.

    There are also different meanings about the fig tree. I remember one about the fig tree that looked excellent on the outside but could not bear any fruit so Jesus got angry at it and zapped it. That this is about the rejection of Israel being unfruitful despite having every advantage. But I don't know if that is the interpretation I'd go with since Israel will be dealt with and restored at a later time and that God has not forsaken them completely. And the kind of mercy He shows for mankind goes to grace because of Jesus. And yet there are other Christians who believe God is done with Israel.

    There is so much to learn that it could overwhelm me if it wasn't for the fact God loves us and works with us individually in relationship.

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Note 2 at Matthew 17:20:

    The disciples’ unbelief in this instance was not a disbelief that God’s power could produce deliverance ( Luke 9:41), but rather, it was a “natural” kind of unbelief that came from hardened hearts ( Mark 6:52) that were more sensitive to what they saw (Mark 9:20) than to what they believed.

    Matthew 17:20:
    Jesus did not say that the reason these disciples could not cast this demon out was because they didn’t have faith but rather because they had unbelief. On the contrary, Jesus stated that a very small amount of faith (the size of a “mustard seed”) was sufficient to remove a mountain if no unbelief was present to hinder it.

    Most of us have the concept that we either have faith or unbelief but that we can’t have both at the same time. However, Jesus told Jairus to “believe only” (Luke 8:50) implying that faith and fear can operate in us at the same time. This was also the reason James said not to be double-minded (James 1:5-8). We can be thinking faith yet having thoughts of unbelief at the same time.

    Matthew 17:19, these disciples did have faith to cast this demon out, and they exercised that faith but didn’t see the same results that they had seen before. This was why they were concerned and asked Jesus what the problem was. They wouldn’t have asked if they had not believed. They did have faith, the same faith that had effected many other deliverances. The problem wasn’t their faith but rather their unbelief.

    Every believer has been given “the measure of faith,” but unbelief negates it. It’s like hooking a team of horses up to a heavy weight and having them pull it. The weight will move. But if an equal team of horses is hooked up to the same weight and pull in the opposite direction at the same time, although great force may be exerted, the weight won’t move. Likewise, unbelief counterbalances our faith. If we will just remove the unbelief, a mustard-seed amount of faith will be sufficient to move our problems.

    Instead of trying to build huge amounts of faith to overcome our fears and unbelief, a simpler method is to remove our fears by cutting off their source; then our simple, “child-like” faith that remains will do the job. It doesn’t take big faith, just pure faith.
    Those of us who tolerate high levels of unbelief in our lives will never be able to build our faith big enough to overcome unbelief’s negative force. The only way we can receive is to get others to mix their faith with ours or draw on one of the supernatural ministry gifts in someone else, such as the gift of faith (1 Corinthians 12:9). God’s best is for us to receive directly from Him. We will only be successful at that when we not only build our faith but also destroy our doubts.

    Taken from Bible Commentary
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    This commentary make me also consider the reason we all should be regularly meeting with other believers so we can use our gifts for the benefit of one another to the building up of the saints. I have been out of the body of believers in a church for a long time but am now back. While away from the body the Lord kept me and even taught me but His best is for us to be with others of "like precious faith". I won't have His best if I don't dare and step out in faith.

    The notes below describe my growing awareness. I was ignorant of many of the promises. And I later did receive the truth but before that I was taught a certain way and it dominated my thinking. I never dared hope that it could be different than the way I was taught. I'm still learning about fear and how to not allow it to dominate my thinking in areas that I've long hid from. Mostly getting back into relationships with people after losing family.

    Getting back to church took a long time to do. And as the promises come from the Bible about stepping forward believing that God has not given me this spirit of fear., that He has already given me power and love and a sound mind in Christ. I have stepped forward and begun to see these fears demolish one by one.






    An unbelief that comes as a result of ignorance can be done away with by receiving the truth of God’s Word (Romans 10:17 and 2 Peter 1:4). However, the unbelief that hindered the disciples in this case was a “natural” type of unbelief (see note 2 at Matthew 17:20). They had been taught all of their lives to believe what their five senses told them. They were simply dominated by this natural input more than by God’s supernatural input (God’s Word - Luke 9:1).


    Last edited by joaniemarie; August 13th, 2017 at 03:54 AM.
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    2 Peter 1:3-9 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

    5. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge;

    6. and in your knowledge; self-control, and in your self control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness;

    7. and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, an in your brotherly kindness, love.

    8. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    ( vs. 9 has a meaning going back to understanding who we are in Christ and needing to know that and REMEMBER that daily)

    9. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short sighted, HAVING FORGOTTEN HIS PURIFICATION FROM HIS FORMER SINS.

    When I forgot that Jesus had purified me already from my sins in the past and I instead allowed my emotions and feelings of guilt and condemnation entrap me by reliving the guilt and shame of them over and over, I lacked the qualities of the verses before that just like the Bible said. By faith in His power to accomplish this it was done. And not before.

    Before that the devil was devouring me because of my actual unbelief in what provisions Jesus has already made for me. I accepted the enemy's condemnation and lived a weak and beggarly life.




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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Joaniemarie,

    I'm genuinely curious - have you experienced healing yourself either
    immediate or delayed or not at all.

    Im wondering as I've experienced all three types personally, I know God heals but I
    know from experience that it's not always God's will for it to happen instantly and
    sometimes there are good reasons why it doesn't happen at all.

    I have also seen all three types happen in other people's life too and from my personal
    experience it's not been due to lack of faith or belief in healing.
    He is God and
    we are not.

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    So it's majorly important to know who we are in Christ., or we will be devourable... ".. satan goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" We can open a door for the enemy to defeat us in some area of our lives we are weak in. Holding onto old ideas of who God is and how He works apart from the revelation of Jesus who told us if we want to see the Father we need to look at Him. God doesn't kill steal or destroy us.
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by Miri View Post
    Joaniemarie,

    I'm genuinely curious - have you experienced healing yourself either
    immediate or delayed or not at all.

    Im wondering as I've experienced all three types personally, I know God heals but I
    know from experience that it's not always God's will for it to happen instantly and
    sometimes there are good reasons why it doesn't happen at all.

    I have also seen all three types happen in other people's life too and from my personal
    experience it's not been due to lack of faith or belief in healing.


    Hi Miri., Yes, I've experienced major deliverance in healing from the fear that turned into mental illness. But there is more ground to cover but I'm not where I was last year or the year before or the year before.

    I'm still receiving healing now as I go back to church to be with other Christians again. It's not that Jesus has not given me a sound mind. It is that I'm learning to claim what He has given me by grace through faith. The enemy steals from us the ground that Jesus has won for us. We keep the ground by grace through faith in Jesus righteousness given to us. We give up our ground when we believe in our own righteousnesses that we have done.


    In my case, the enemy stole first my security in what I thought God had given me in the life of my son who went to Iraq. As the untold horrors of that came across the ocean to NY., so did the slow and steady demise of other things I held secure most of my adult life. Each truth held for years dissolved before my eyes. The enemy hates us and steals our security in God., then our sanity., our loved ones and families. he lies and steals our bodies by stealing our health and wholeness., then he can kill our bodies ultimately.


    he does this by using our own thinking against us. he did it with Adam and Eve., he uses wrong teaching about who God is and how God deals with us. If we are not sure about the love of God because of who we are IN Christ - Beloved. Then we will always fall for condemnation and guilt from the lies of the enemy.

    If we don't understand we have been saved by grace through faith IN Christ we will think we have to maintain God's love and acceptance for ourselves by our own righteousness. And then we will fail because we were not saved that way nor are we kept or accepted that way. We are kept the same way we are saved. By grace through faith. Undeserved unearned love and favor.

    Knowing the truth can keep us from much of the damage. But many of us don't know the truth. We sort of go by the status quo and follow everyone else like sheep. We don't believe the major truths about Jesus in the Bible due to our investing our mind and emotions on our own thoughts and opinions.

    Holy Spirit filling and Bible reading and hearing and knowing is the difference between life and death for our human bodies. If we are not building on the "solid Rock" it is just like that song says, we are building instead on sinking sand. My life sure was but now it's not. Some get healed all at once and that is wonderful but I think what we are supposed to do is maintain our healing each day.

    I think it is amazing how God uses each one of us with our different gifts in the body. How the local church gives us a place to meet and learn together and grow into His body here on earth., the body of Christ. He gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us to work together and there is a lot of power when we do. But many of us Christians are fools and fight among ourselves. Just look at CC and all the infighting of different denominational arguments. It's not God's fault for the carnality and weakness so many of us believers are living in.

    I'm really thankful and happy you have experienced healing miri in so many different ways. I know He heals us where we are as we go through. And He does it differently and in His own timing based on many factors we are not privy to. But we can totally trust He does it better than we could even imagine.


    Last edited by joaniemarie; August 13th, 2017 at 05:25 AM.

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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Quote Originally Posted by garee View Post
    Good point. I think it is a form of blasphemy

    Planning on building bigger barns and building them to enjoy the fruits are two different things .He is watching to see if His will is being obeyed.

    If Christ does not do the first works of drawing us through his desire that comes from the hearing of faith a person can build but it does not mean God blesses it. It could tumble like the tower of Babylon .not being built on the good ground, the word of God by which we then could watch daily for our living bread the food of our Fathers will.


    And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God. Luk 12:16

    well...there really isn't a way you can call the devotional blasphemy. I mean, just because he didn't also bring in the verse in tension to, it doesn't mean he hasn't taught the people he pastors this elsewhere. Bruce is pretty trustworthy and he attests that he definitely has heard Joseph teach on the other verse too.

    And like we were talking about, you can't cover everything at once. I think I'm too hard on a man that he would present something true but that I would think him to be presenting something false simply because he hadn't taught everything at once and someone might misunderstand. The truth is, someone IS going to misunderstand. Every cotton pickin' time.That's a given. They'll look at scripture in a very human way, making provision for the flesh in it.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: WHAT DO YOU SEE???

    Yes I agree, about the fig tree, that is why I found it so interesting that he soon pointed faith moving a big mountain into the sea, how hard might it have been for those (the Jews and the disciples) under the temple system, which was like a mountain in their lives to know that by faith it could be moved into the sea.

    Oh yes, I am not speaking about Israel per se as a nation, but just about the temple system (system of sacrifices) being the mountain

    Jesus so often did not say speak in a plain direct fashion because they were not yet ready to hear it, I am sure the disciples were like "what is this guy talking about" but I am sure after Pentecost they understood.

    Underneath the symbolism it is showing us how much God love us and that He can move mountains.


    Quote Originally Posted by joaniemarie View Post

    Had to read this a few times to get some of the gist of what you were saying. I'm also thinking of the temple having meaning of His body when Jesus said they would knock down this temple and in 3 days He will raise it up. They didn't understand what He was talking about and laughed at Him all the more for saying He could raise up what took years to build by people.

    There are also different meanings about the fig tree. I remember one about the fig tree that looked excellent on the outside but could not bear any fruit so Jesus got angry at it and zapped it. That this is about the rejection of Israel being unfruitful despite having every advantage. But I don't know if that is the interpretation I'd go with since Israel will be dealt with and restored at a later time and that God has not forsaken them completely. And the kind of mercy He shows for mankind goes to grace because of Jesus. And yet there are other Christians who believe God is done with Israel.

    There is so much to learn that it could overwhelm me if it wasn't for the fact God loves us and works with us individually in relationship.

    Grace777x70 and joaniemarie like this.
    For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Romans 6:14

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