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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#61
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#61
He was wounded for our transgressions..

transgressions:

~H6588
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]פֶּשַׁע
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]pesha‛
peh'-shah
From H6586; a revolt (national, moral or religious): - rebellion, sin, transgression, trespassive
Total KJV occurrences: 93

from H6586

פָּשַׁע
pâsha‛
paw-shah'
A primitive root (rather identical with H6585 through the idea of expansion); to break away (from just authority), that is, trespass, "apostatize", quarrel: - offend, rebel, revolt, transgress (-ion, -or).
Total KJV occurrences: 41




 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#63
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#63
The chastisement of our peace was upon Him and with His stripes we are healed.

Peace:

H7965
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]שָׁלֹם שָׁלוֹם
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]shâlôm　　　 shâlôm
shaw-lome', shaw-lome'
From H7999; safe, that is, (figuratively) well, happy, friendly; also (abstractly) welfare, that is, health, prosperity, peace: -　　　 X do, familiar, X fare, favour, + friend, X greet, (good) health, (X perfect, such as be at) peace (-able, -ably), prosper (-ity, -ous), rest, safe (-ly), salute, welfare, (X all is, be) well, X wholly.
Total KJV occurrences: 236
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#64
#64
Stunnedbygrace said:
There are verses in tension though too. They say, you do not receive because you do not ask God. Okay, got it. But then it goes on to further say, or you don't receive what you ask for because you ask for the wrong reason, with the wrong motives, to fulfill your pleasures.

This is what I don't like about WOF leaning. They seem to me to ignore the verses in tension to the ones they champion.

So to take the verse from Mark 11:24 - if you believe you receive them you will have them, needs to be taken together with -you don't receive what you ask for because you pray with wrong motives, to fulfill your pleasure.

I have listened to some very edifying sermons from Prince, but I think it is error to teach this as he does right here in this devotional. He hasn't covered the verses "in tension to."
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Half the truth is still a lie.

WOF gives half the truth and twists it into a lie.

It promotes freshly desires to be prayed for instead of learning God's will.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#65
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#65
lets pray for them then, and hope that Jesus' Revelations will become the knowledge
of their life, that they may live a True and Loving existance...
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#66
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#66
Ariel82 said:
Half the truth is still a lie.

WOF gives half the truth and twists it into a lie.

It promotes freshly desires to be prayed for instead of learning God's will.
Click to expand...
The way you lie about other Christians is quite interesting too
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#67
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#67
Hi Ariel

Maybe the movements solely about building faith to receive? Seems to me that definitely needs to be first. Then the foundation truth of no condemnation or judgement to the world, and mostly to the believer? How many know this?

So on this basis one won't hide from the Lord but come freely knowing that a blockage to healing or whatever promise has not been fulfilled, He won't turn us away, but His desire is to deliver us in order to receive.

Just learning so is just my thought for now.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#68
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#68
stonesoffire said:
Hi Ariel

Maybe the movements solely about building faith to receive? .
Click to expand...
Well, you're trying really hard to justify the false gospel of WoF. It doesn't fly in light of Scripture. The Gospel isn't pragmatism and it isn't WoF false doctrine.

And? Faith is from God and is His gift, so your point is moot concerning WoF and it being about building faith; Philippians 1:29; Romans 10:17; Romans 12:3; Ephesians 1:19.

Sometimes, well really, all the time our beliefs should come from Scripture, not hashing out our subjective thoughts into words. And false doctrines shouldn't become something we attempt to justify.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#69
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#69
Ariel82 said:
Half the truth is still a lie.

WOF gives half the truth and twists it into a lie.

It promotes freshly desires to be prayed for instead of learning God's will.
Click to expand...
I actually found a sermon by Joseph in which he addressed the "okay then, I'm gonna ask for a million dollars" type thing. I remembered afterward that I said I'd bring it when I found it, but then I couldn't find it again. But he didn't use that verse I thought he would but he...definitely scoffed at the idea, but didn't address it as fully as I would have liked. (Though I was falling asleep when I finally found it.)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#70
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#70
I spent over a day listening to Josephs sermons and though some say he is WOF, I saw no indication of that type of WOF that we all despise. But hey, there are good doctors and bad doctors.
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#71
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#71
stonesoffire said:
Just finished a study on Isaiah 53. There's not one sin that we can commit that isn't covered by the Cross of Jesus Christ. Even apostasy. That surprised me. It's the walk of the Spirit daily that will keep us in health and prosperity. And both these things are also seen in His wounding, His chastisement, etc.

It's an awesome study and will release one from the captivity of the enemy who lies to us about God, and lies to us about our union with Jesus.


We don't change ourselves in any way...we identify with the Cross...and receive His healing.
Click to expand...

Hi Stone,

Here's the quote again. Look above at the bolded part. The very thing you say is that this book releases one from captivity, but instead will trap people back into captivity. Sorry to be so blunt, but these are lies you're reading. This person is not being led of the Holy Spirit.

​I didn't want to address everything you said......what I addressed was that he said that there's not one sin that isn't covered by the cross of Christ. You said, "that surprised me." It should surprise you because it's a lie. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit IS unforgivable. I can post the scripture if you would like.

The bible is truth - books have to be held up to the light of scripture, not vice versa.
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#72
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#72
Desertsrose said:

Hi Stone,

Here's the quote again. Look above at the bolded part. The very thing you say is that this book releases one from captivity, but instead will trap people back into captivity. Sorry to be so blunt, but these are lies you're reading. This person is not being led of the Holy Spirit.

​I didn't want to address everything you said......what I addressed was that he said that there's not one sin that isn't covered by the cross of Christ. You said, "that surprised me." It should surprise you because it's a lie. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit IS unforgivable. I can post the scripture if you would like.

The bible is truth - books have to be held up to the light of scripture, not vice versa.
Click to expand...
People walk away from their belief often then come back. God is always ready to receive them back. What is your problem with this bolded part of the quote? I'm not understanding you here.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#73
Apr 22, 2013
12,923
8,655
113
#73
Denadii said:
Persuaded said:
Ok...What about the scriptures that say He'll give us the desires of our hearts?
Click to expand...
Yes, but WHICH heart? Our old, dead, fleshly heart, that desires everything at enmity against god?

Or our New heart, that He has given us when He made us a New Born-again creation? The one that trusts He always has our best interests at heart. The one that KNOWS we will endure all manner of hardship, that will ultimately be for our good and His Glory.

The heart that desires to ASK for gifts like the ability to love those that harm us, that asks for opportunities to spread His Gospel, and enlarge His Kingdom in productive ways. Maybe using that cancer diagnosis to witness to Drs. and hospital staff, even to the point of death. Maybe losing that well paid awesome job, to witness to friends, relatives and neighbors that your peace and happiness is not dependent on possessions, and big houses, or financial security, but JOY IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM!

Blessings of all sorts, be they wealth, prosperity, or health are just that, BLESSINGS! But so are hardships. Because we KNOW He works ALL things for OUR Good and HIS Glory.

THAT is the glorious message we should be conveying to our brothers and sinners. GLORIFY HIM IN PLENTY, IN HEALTH, IN POVERTY, AND IN SICKNESS!
Click to expand...
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#74
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#74
Stunnedbygrace said:
I spent over a day listening to Josephs sermons and though some say he is WOF, I saw no indication of that type of WOF that we all despise. But hey, there are good doctors and bad doctors.
Click to expand...

Hi Stunned, He admits he is in one of the books he wrote. Here's another quote by Him.
“Now I've been in the Word of Faith circle and I find that Word of Faith preachers know about favor. Churches of faith know about favor. The thing that I wish many of them would say though would be this - to use that phase - "undeserved favor". Favor is good and the teaching of favor has produced tremendous testimonies but I would rather the Word of Faith preachers like myself use undeserved favor because that's the true definition of grace. Now I didn't learn amazing grace from Word of Faith though I'm a Word of Faith preacher. I had to learn that truly struggling on my own.”
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#76
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#76
Desertsrose said:

Hi Stunned, He admits he is in one of the books he wrote. Here's another quote by Him.
“Now I've been in the Word of Faith circle and I find that Word of Faith preachers know about favor. Churches of faith know about favor. The thing that I wish many of them would say though would be this - to use that phase - "undeserved favor". Favor is good and the teaching of favor has produced tremendous testimonies but I would rather the Word of Faith preachers like myself use undeserved favor because that's the true definition of grace. Now I didn't learn amazing grace from Word of Faith though I'm a Word of Faith preacher. I had to learn that truly struggling on my own.”
Click to expand...
Unmerited favor is mercy. Grace is 'the empowering presence of God which enables us to do that which He has for us to do' Simply that.
 
G

graceNpeace

Senior Member
#77
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#77
Denadii said:
Unmerited favor is mercy. Grace is 'the empowering presence of God which enables us to do that which He has for us to do' Simply that.
Click to expand...
You have simply re-defined two words...

Grace is not your description - simple as that!
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#79
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#79
James said when we meet with trials to count it all joy because the testing of our faith produces steadfastness (not wavering) and that when steadfastness has it's full effect, we are perfect and lacking nothing.

edit:Was building on what pennEd said there, but a million posts came in between. Sorry.
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#80
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#80
graceNpeace said:
You have simply re-defined two words...

Grace is not your description - simple as that!
Click to expand...
Did I say I came up with that definition? Who needs people like you sniping at people all the time?

I would rather the Word of Faith preachers like myself use undeserved favor because that's the true definition of grace.

I simply corrected what this guy said. You Gracelesspeice are not a nice person at all....
 
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