Which Temple is this?

[Locutus]

Rev 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Rev 11:2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

Does the above describe the temple that was destroyed in the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD or not?

 

[MattforJesus]

Rev 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Rev 11:2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

Does the above describe the temple that was destroyed in the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD or not?

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The Jews will not see Jesus again until they as a nation accepts Jesus as their Messiah,then they will see Jesus.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Because Israel as a nation did not accept Jesus as their Messiah,God allowed the Roman Empire to go against them,and scatter the Jews in to the nations.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

God has not cast away His people Israel,but they lost the kingdom temporarily,but will get it back in the future,and the kingdom restored to Israel,and no operating Gentile government.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Jer 33:7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
Jer 33:8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

God will gather all the Jews back to their land,the whole house of Israel,and leave none of them in the nations,and restore the kingdom on earth to them after the world attacks the Jews.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Israel is blinded in part,they accept the Old Testament,but not the New,for the majority,but Israel as a nation must come to the truth,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,and so all Israel shall be saved,the Gentile nations come together,and all Gentiles that love not the truth wil rebel against God,and Israel will come to the truth.

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Israel is blinded in part,and when the Gentiles follow the beast kingdom,then salvation is no longer available to them,and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in,and God will send 2 witnesses to Israel to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,which they will preach for three and one half years,and the 2 witnesses are caught up to heaven,and then Israel as a nation accepts Jesus as their Messiah.

The Jews say,blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord,and they will see Jesus.

The beast and the world attacks Israel,which Jesus comes with His saints,and saves Israel,and puts down the world.

In the first century God would of not sent the Jews 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,for He allowed the Roman Empire to go against them,and scatter them in to the nations,neither did Israel as a nation turn to Jesus as their Messiah.

Revelation 11,Israel as a nation turns to Jesus as their Messiah,which could of not happened in the first century,for if they did turn to Jesus,God would of not allowed them to be overthrown by the Roman Empire.

Gentiles still have salvation,so Israel is still blinded in part,and when the Gentiles no longer have salvation available to them,then Israel will not be blinded anymore,and so all Israel shall be saved.

So it is obvious that it is in the future.

The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East,which will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel,and the Gentile nations will come together,and say,Peace and safety,as they try to achieve peace on earth,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated.

The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians,and the Jews will rebuild their temple with no hassle from the Palestinians.

 

[Willie-T]

Matt often floods us with 60 times more than is needed. (The result, many don't bother to read his stuff.)

"The Nations" (that includes unaccepting Jews) were not the worshipers mentioned there. This was not some future image of a new Jewish Temple being built.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Rev 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Rev 11:2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

Does the above describe the temple that was destroyed in the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD or not?

Probably not.
The book of Revelation was likely written at least 20 years after Titus and co sacked the temple in Jerusalem.

Perhaps the "temple of God" spoken of in Revelation 11:1 is the church of regenerated men.

1 Peter 2:4-7
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

 

[oldethennew]

there is NO TEMPLE now, but there certainly will be in OUR future...

 

[Desertsrose]

It's the future temple described in Ezekiel.

 

[Locutus]

Rev 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Rev 11:2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

If this is a later temple, why does John not make any mention of the one that was destroyed in the war of 66-70 AD?

That would seem to be a glaring omission.

 

[TMS]

There is a temple in Heaven, and it will return after the thousand years. Jesus is in the temple now offering His blood.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Locutus,


The book of Revelation was written between 81-96. There was not a present temple to talk about.

 

[Willie-T]

Hi Locutus,


The book of Revelation was written between 81-96. There was not a present temple to talk about.

Actually, it was written about 63 (The book of Revelation, itself, actually tells us that.) and the temple at Jerusalem would not yet be destroyed until around 70.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Willie,


Where does Revelation tell us that John wrote the book in 63?

 

[Willie-T]

Hi Willie,


Where does Revelation tell us that John wrote the book in 63?

While there are many other places to find the true authorship of Revelation, here is just one point:

When we look at the internal evidence, we find that there is also a very clear indicator regarding the date of authorship, found in Revelation 17:10: "They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while" (Rev. 17:10).

This passage, which is speaking of the line of rulers in Rome, tells us exactly how many rulers had already come, which one was currently in power, and that the next one would only last a short while. Take a look at how that perfectly fits with Nero and the Roman Empire of the first century.

The rule of the first seven Roman Emperors is as follows:
Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)
Augustus (27 BC-AD 14)
Tiberius (AD 14-37)
Caligula (AD 37-41)
Claudius (AD 41-54)
"Five have fallen..."

Nero (AD 54-68)
"One is..."

Galba (June AD 68-January AD 69, a six month ruler-ship)
"the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while."

Of the first seven kings, five had come (Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, and Claudius), one was now in power (Nero), and one had not yet come (Galba), but would only remain a little time (six months). The current Caesar at the time of John's writing was the sixth Caesar, Nero.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Rev 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Rev 11:2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

Does the above describe the temple that was destroyed in the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD or not?

Since the second Temple had already been destroyed at the time this was written, this was a vision of the third temple in Jerusalem (for which plans have already been drawn up) and which will be in existence at the time that the Antichrist (the Man of Sin) takes total control of the world. The key to interpreting this correctly is in verse 2 -- "forty and two months" ( 3 1/2 years). So these two verses (below) should be placed side by side to see that this is the temple which the Antichrist will occupy and desecrate in the future.

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (Rev 11:2).

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5).

 

[oldethennew]

right now, we are most to be concerned with OUR own TEMPLE,
and what Christ demands that we do with it...

 

[Locutus]

On yer bike then, get pedaling..

 

[birdie]

Rev 11:1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Rev 11:2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

Does the above describe the temple that was destroyed in the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD or not?

Thanks Locutus for your question.

"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

The temple of God, as Jesus used the term, is his body. The altar is indicated because we are speaking of Christ's sacrifice to save the true believers. It is parable language used to indicate this, just as a sword sticking out of Jesus' mouth in another chapter is parable language, not a literal metal sword, but the word of God. Those who worship in Christ's body, in his temple, is meaning the true believers in Christ. Verse one is just a way of saying go and measure those who are in Christ, part of the body of Christ. A measure of faith is given to each true believer. The terminology of being measured is being used to indicate that these persons are included and counted in design and make up of the body of Christ.

Verse two is about those outside the body of Christ, the unsaved (called Gentiles here as a way of indicating heathen, or unsaved). Don't measure them, meaning they are not counted in the make up of the body of Christ. They will reject Christ and the true believers. The time they tread the holy city under foot is apparently a part of the tribulation period. The term holy city just means the true believers, those who are a part of the Jews inwardly, not outwardly.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thanks Locutus for your question.

"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

The temple of God, as Jesus used the term, is his body.

It's a good thing that you left that verse in place above. There is no way that anyone would misunderstand that to refer to the body of Christ, and that too, measuring it with a rod (or a reed)! That would be totally absurd! And that's what happens when people begin to spiritualize Scripture and make everything a metaphor or a symbol of something else. It simply leads to absurdity.

A literal "bricks and mortar" temple will be erected in Jerusalem before the coming of the Antichrist, and in the end he will desecrate it and bring about the Great Tribulation. That temple (actually its Holy Place) was prophesied by Christ in Matthew 24:15,16.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand), Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[trofimus]

While there are many other places to find the true authorship of Revelation, here is just one point:

When we look at the internal evidence, we find that there is also a very clear indicator regarding the date of authorship, found in Revelation 17:10: "They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while" (Rev. 17:10).

This passage, which is speaking of the line of rulers in Rome, tells us exactly how many rulers had already come, which one was currently in power, and that the next one would only last a short while. Take a look at how that perfectly fits with Nero and the Roman Empire of the first century.

The rule of the first seven Roman Emperors is as follows:
Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)
Augustus (27 BC-AD 14)
Tiberius (AD 14-37)
Caligula (AD 37-41)
Claudius (AD 41-54)
"Five have fallen..."

Nero (AD 54-68)
"One is..."

Galba (June AD 68-January AD 69, a six month ruler-ship)
"the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while."

Of the first seven kings, five had come (Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, and Claudius), one was now in power (Nero), and one had not yet come (Galba), but would only remain a little time (six months). The current Caesar at the time of John's writing was the sixth Caesar, Nero.

Sounds good, but king is not emperor. There were many kings in Roman empire, but only one emperor. Like Augustus was emperor while Herod was king in Israel.

If John/Jesus is talking about Roman emperors, it seems to be a strange thing, to call them kings...

Jesus had no problem with calling caesar by his title:
"Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "So give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

 

[Locutus]

The Greek word βασιλεύς has been used to describe Roman Emperors:

3. of the Roman emperors,AP10.25 (Antip. Thess.)

Source:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=basileis&la=greek#lexicon

 

[MattforJesus]

While there are many other places to find the true authorship of Revelation, here is just one point:

When we look at the internal evidence, we find that there is also a very clear indicator regarding the date of authorship, found in Revelation 17:10: "They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while" (Rev. 17:10).

This passage, which is speaking of the line of rulers in Rome, tells us exactly how many rulers had already come, which one was currently in power, and that the next one would only last a short while. Take a look at how that perfectly fits with Nero and the Roman Empire of the first century.

The rule of the first seven Roman Emperors is as follows:
Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)
Augustus (27 BC-AD 14)
Tiberius (AD 14-37)
Caligula (AD 37-41)
Claudius (AD 41-54)
"Five have fallen..."

Nero (AD 54-68)
"One is..."

Galba (June AD 68-January AD 69, a six month ruler-ship)
"the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while."

Of the first seven kings, five had come (Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, and Claudius), one was now in power (Nero), and one had not yet come (Galba), but would only remain a little time (six months). The current Caesar at the time of John's writing was the sixth Caesar, Nero.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

5 are fallen.

1.Egypt.
2.Assyria.
3.Babylon.
4.Medo-Persia.
5.Greece.

1 is at the time John wrote Revelation.

6.The Roman Empire.

1 is to come,and will rule for a short space,three and one half years.

7.The ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,the next kingdom to come which involves the whole world,which the beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues.

Daniel 7,the 4th beast,the Roman Empire,does not lose their dominion until God puts them down,and they shall devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and after they are put down the saints possess the kingdom.

The ten horn kingdom is the physical dominion of the beast,and they rule for three and one half years,but fail at obtaining peace,so they hand their power over to the beast,the 8th king,who is of the 7 kings,for Satan influenced those 7 kingdoms.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The crowns are on the heads,Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people by way of the 7 kingdoms.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The crowns are on the horns,Satan in the physical realm deceiving people,for the beast shall be mighty,but not by his own power,for he gets his power from Satan.

The next kingdom to come is the ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections,with a leader in each section,and the time for God to cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,then He will put them down.