Pre-Post-Mid Trib
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Good day Jackson123!
With all due respect, that link is just the teaching of another person. The way to arrive at a right understanding is by cross-referencing and comparing all of the relevant scriptures. These links to sites, youtube, seminars, books and hearsay, is the reason we have so many false teachings. In order to come to a right conclusion, one must understand the following:
* God's wrath, when it takes place, its severity and who it is to be directed to
* That Christ took upon himself the wrath of God that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely
* Discerning the difference between persecution and tribulation that the Lord said believers would have, which comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming, unprecedented wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments
* That the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as being two separate events
* That Matt.24:29-31 is not the same event as 1 Thes.4:13-17 and 1 Cor.15:51-53
* That the first resurrection has stages to it and doesn't just take place only in Rev.20:4-6, but represents every resurrection and catching away that takes place prior to the resurrection of the unrighteous dead at the great white throne judgment
* Understanding that all of the promises that the Lord made is to the entire church, which is still in the process of being built and is not restricted to just the first century churches
These are just several issues regarding end-time events that need to be understood in order to come to a right interpretation. I have personally found that there are many who don't understand the severity of God's coming wrath. They have pacified it, relocated it, down-played it and historicized it. Frankly, they have done the same thing regarding the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and thereby distorting the impact of what it will mean when the Lord returns, in that, from that time forward, the world will never go back to the way it was, with the governments of mankind.
By the way, if the pre-trib doctrine was initiated by Francisco Ribera, how could I and others, who have never read of him nor have been his followers, arrived at our conclusion that the gathering of the church takes place prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath? I'm pretty confident that this Francisco is not responsible for writing the Greek New Testament. All you are doing is repeating an existing apologetic. They make the same reference to Darby, Scofield, MacDonald and others. Their mention is solely for the purpose of discrediting ones position.
The truth of the matter is that, God's wrath was poured out on Christ. Therefore, those who have faith in him as the One who provided salvation for us, completely and fully, that person is credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. This is where it is important to understand the difference between the persecution and tribulation that Jesus said believers would have vs. God's coming wrath. There is a huge difference between the two.
Jesus is not gong to build his church (prepare his bride) and then send her through his wrath!
Paul referred to the appearing of the Lord to gather the church as "the blessed hope." After giving a detailed account of the dead in Christ resurrecting, immediately followed by the living being changed and caught up, he said for us to "comfort one another with those words." Consequently, if believers were to go through God's wrath the same as the wicked, it would be anything but a blessed hope and there would be nothing to comfort each other about. This is where it is important to understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath and who it will be directed to.
With all due respect, that link is just the teaching of another person. The way to arrive at a right understanding is by cross-referencing and comparing all of the relevant scriptures. These links to sites, youtube, seminars, books and hearsay, is the reason we have so many false teachings. In order to come to a right conclusion, one must understand the following:
* God's wrath, when it takes place, its severity and who it is to be directed to
* That Christ took upon himself the wrath of God that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely
* Discerning the difference between persecution and tribulation that the Lord said believers would have, which comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming, unprecedented wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments
* That the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as being two separate events
* That Matt.24:29-31 is not the same event as 1 Thes.4:13-17 and 1 Cor.15:51-53
* That the first resurrection has stages to it and doesn't just take place only in Rev.20:4-6, but represents every resurrection and catching away that takes place prior to the resurrection of the unrighteous dead at the great white throne judgment
* Understanding that all of the promises that the Lord made is to the entire church, which is still in the process of being built and is not restricted to just the first century churches
These are just several issues regarding end-time events that need to be understood in order to come to a right interpretation. I have personally found that there are many who don't understand the severity of God's coming wrath. They have pacified it, relocated it, down-played it and historicized it. Frankly, they have done the same thing regarding the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and thereby distorting the impact of what it will mean when the Lord returns, in that, from that time forward, the world will never go back to the way it was, with the governments of mankind.
By the way, if the pre-trib doctrine was initiated by Francisco Ribera, how could I and others, who have never read of him nor have been his followers, arrived at our conclusion that the gathering of the church takes place prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath? I'm pretty confident that this Francisco is not responsible for writing the Greek New Testament. All you are doing is repeating an existing apologetic. They make the same reference to Darby, Scofield, MacDonald and others. Their mention is solely for the purpose of discrediting ones position.
The truth of the matter is that, God's wrath was poured out on Christ. Therefore, those who have faith in him as the One who provided salvation for us, completely and fully, that person is credited with righteousness and reconciled to God and God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. This is where it is important to understand the difference between the persecution and tribulation that Jesus said believers would have vs. God's coming wrath. There is a huge difference between the two.
Jesus is not gong to build his church (prepare his bride) and then send her through his wrath!
Paul referred to the appearing of the Lord to gather the church as "the blessed hope." After giving a detailed account of the dead in Christ resurrecting, immediately followed by the living being changed and caught up, he said for us to "comfort one another with those words." Consequently, if believers were to go through God's wrath the same as the wicked, it would be anything but a blessed hope and there would be nothing to comfort each other about. This is where it is important to understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath and who it will be directed to.
Exactly. Christians will find a lot of anti-Pretribulation Rapture and anti-Dispensationalism rants on the internet. For whatever reason, there seems to be pure hatred against these teachings. So instead of dealing with the actual Scriptures, you will hear all kinds of diatribes against Darby, Scofield, Dallas Theological Seminary, plus some nonsense about Margaret McDonald etc.
Had none of these people existed (and some were sound and godly Christians) we would still need to deal with the Scriptures and interpret them properly -- rightly dividing the Word of Truth (2 Tim2:15). So my challenge to the scoffers and naysayers is simply this: Did Jesus say in John 14:1-4 "LET YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED BECAUSE TRIBULATION WILL COME UPON YOU"? And did Paul say in 1 Thessalonians 4:18 "Wherefore DISCOMFORT one another with these words"?
Had none of these people existed (and some were sound and godly Christians) we would still need to deal with the Scriptures and interpret them properly -- rightly dividing the Word of Truth (2 Tim2:15). So my challenge to the scoffers and naysayers is simply this: Did Jesus say in John 14:1-4 "LET YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED BECAUSE TRIBULATION WILL COME UPON YOU"? And did Paul say in 1 Thessalonians 4:18 "Wherefore DISCOMFORT one another with these words"?
Dear brother Ahwatukee.
I understand your believe is different in this subject.
one of the different is base oN the interpretation of 2 thesalonian
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
in my interpretation, from verse 1 to 4 paul explain about when the day of the Lord and rapture happen.
So Paul want to talk about rapture and It happen after antichrist.
your interpretation:
verse 1-2 warning not confuse about when rapture happen. And Paul not address It
3-4 paul talking same thing else, not about rapture
let me give you analogy brother.
let say my wife ask me If her car overheating.
I Said: 1. do not wory about over hearing.
2. if No gas in the tank you not able to start the engine.
in verse 1 I am talk about not to wory about over heating, I better finish with what the sign of overheating, not change subject
if Paul start with not to confuse about rapture, the next verse is about what happen before rapture.
I understand your believe is different in this subject.
one of the different is base oN the interpretation of 2 thesalonian
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
in my interpretation, from verse 1 to 4 paul explain about when the day of the Lord and rapture happen.
So Paul want to talk about rapture and It happen after antichrist.
your interpretation:
verse 1-2 warning not confuse about when rapture happen. And Paul not address It
3-4 paul talking same thing else, not about rapture
let me give you analogy brother.
let say my wife ask me If her car overheating.
I Said: 1. do not wory about over hearing.
2. if No gas in the tank you not able to start the engine.
in verse 1 I am talk about not to wory about over heating, I better finish with what the sign of overheating, not change subject
if Paul start with not to confuse about rapture, the next verse is about what happen before rapture.
I copied this from Wikipedia without checking its accuracy, so investigate carefully.
The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[SUP][24][/SUP][SUP][25][/SUP] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[SUP][26][/SUP] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[SUP][27][/SUP] and John Gill[SUP][28][/SUP] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.
There exists at least one 18th-century and two 19th-century pre-tribulation references: in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia by the Baptist Morgan Edwards which articulated the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture,[SUP][29][/SUP] in the writings of Catholic priest Manuel Lacunza in 1812,[SUP][30][/SUP] and by John Nelson Darby in 1827.[SUP][31][/SUP] Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801), a Jesuit priest (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), wrote an apocalyptic work entitled La venida del Mesías en gloria y majestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty). The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. In 1827, it was translated into English by the Scottish minister Edward Irving.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[SUP][24][/SUP][SUP][25][/SUP] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[SUP][26][/SUP] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[SUP][27][/SUP] and John Gill[SUP][28][/SUP] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.
There exists at least one 18th-century and two 19th-century pre-tribulation references: in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia by the Baptist Morgan Edwards which articulated the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture,[SUP][29][/SUP] in the writings of Catholic priest Manuel Lacunza in 1812,[SUP][30][/SUP] and by John Nelson Darby in 1827.[SUP][31][/SUP] Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801), a Jesuit priest (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), wrote an apocalyptic work entitled La venida del Mesías en gloria y majestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty). The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. In 1827, it was translated into English by the Scottish minister Edward Irving.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Brother and Sister,
Thank you, so far at a glance I have seen the discussions going on. So far, at a glance I have not seen judgment or hate. Just debate about the "rapture". I too will join this and provide what I believe has been revealed to me but first. More Importantly let us talk about several parables. Those associated with the end of times and what is God trying to tell us. Let's discuss this.
Luke 17:26 (No one knows the hour or the day):
The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.i 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them (ALL).28Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them (ALL).
So as in the days of Noah, so shall it be when Christ returns.
How or what where they and likened unto. A day when men desire to see Christ come? Or see his miracles and wonders so that they me believe.? Matthew warns us that they will do great signs and wonders to deceive the elect, if it we're possible The world was full with violence. Most, it says all, but Noah was found just, that's why I put most hearts where only filled with wicked thoughts all the time. Most waxed cold and self centered. They scoffed at Noah. I know as you it doesn't say that directly however, if a man was building a giant boat no where near water, and the world was like it is today. Look at all the people giving that guy in KY who built an ark "replica", he gets all kinds of grief. It goes without saying. They went on like nothing was wrong, eating and drinking, giving in marriage, being happy in their evils works and deeds and all was normal. Till the ark was shut!! The storm came and (washed away the wicked.). They beat on the doors, save us!! But it was sealed by God and could not be opened. Tell me, was there a second chance for the people, any of them? Not in Noah's day and not in Sodom... hold that thought. It is applicable to what I believe God has shown be about His return and the "rapture". I will write that, God willing if it is His will tomorrow.
Days of Noah to me are represented pretty obviously to me today. This season and time. We have all of this. The part about eating and drinking itself is deep. Because not only does this represent worldly food, but acceptance of worldly spirituality food. How it was important to them in the last days. Trust God to provide you these things, (both things). Seek the Kingdom of heaven first and you will have all you need. Now these days there seems to be about 20 cooking shows I can think of off the top of my head. With about as many money loving evagalests. Marriages take planning, planning for the event and planning for a happy life together. This goes on today just like then, Oblivious to what was going on around them. Animals dying, earthquakes. On going Wars, rumors/threats of wars. Keep this line in mind too. They were all so tied up in their flesh and the world. Yet if it is evil, they run to it. And to do it. They say evil is good, fulfilling the prophecy of "they will call what is good evil and evil good." So I ask you Again, did they in Noah's or Lots day get a second chance? Why did Luke bring up Lot and Sodom? What are your thoughts on this family? Hold it for me... write it down.
Matthew 24:45 (The faithful servant and evil servant):
Who then is the faithful and wise servant the Master made ruler over His household, to give them food in due season?
Blessed is the servant who when the Master comes finds him so doing.
But if the evil servant in his heart says my master is delaying his coming, and begins to beat his fellow servants, the Master of that servant will come when he is not looking for for him and at an hour not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and mashing of teeth.
To me this says stay in the word and in Christ, preach the truth (the food of heaven). Live in the Spirit, Love God more then anything and love your brothers and sisters, in and out of Christ. Care enough for them to tell them the truth once you have heard it. Stay on guard and keep watch, DO NOT believe your master is delayed. For you to believe that. Wouldn't you have to be expecting something? Do not fall away. Again, key line.... stomp. Stomp...
If you don't share your talents that were given to you based on your faith and seeking, then you end up hiding them. Then you never got a chance to share and gain. Then isn't that evil wicked servant justly thrown out? For what good is salt if it has lost its flavor?
That would make you or I guilty of your blood and your chance to repent and return to God. For those of you who think you can give lip service to God (once saved always saved) and for those of you who then walk and continue to walk through life living in the flesh. Never striving or resisting or praying for strength, or seeking the truth and Will of God. Showing which master you love and serve. Also expecting something... that makes you believe he isn't coming, or delayed. Take heed of the second servant brothers and sisters. It is written, These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Matthew 25:1 (The 10 virgins)
Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lampsa and went to meet the bridegroom.b 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
Now brothers and sisters, notice you have 6 wise and 5 foolish. They all are bridesmaids. That means they believe in Christ. Now here comes a stomp moment... notice the setting, it is in the middle of the night. God is deeper then one word on a page. It is in the middle of the darkest hours that He comes. Now we know the world IS round!! We know the sun shines on one side and not the other. God makes no mistakes. It is dark because it will be dark in the world as it is written Immediately after the tribulation. I will again expand on this, but I feel at this point some of your eyes are starting to open as you read this message. So the fire is the Holy Spirit, it is fed by oil, the oil is the Word of God/food for the Spirit. So I ask you, why would you trim your lamp? Are we not to be the light of the world? Or has the world turned so dark and the times so bad. You trim your light? If you do not read your bible. Pray and strive to be Holy. Then your oil will dry up. By the time the foolish bridesmaids wake up!!! The door is shut!! stomp Stomp... let us in!!! He will answer them, I never knew you!!! Line sound familiar pre-mid trib????
It is late now, again, love to you brothers and sisters. Wake up!! Believe!!!
Love, your humble brother in Christ
Thank you, so far at a glance I have seen the discussions going on. So far, at a glance I have not seen judgment or hate. Just debate about the "rapture". I too will join this and provide what I believe has been revealed to me but first. More Importantly let us talk about several parables. Those associated with the end of times and what is God trying to tell us. Let's discuss this.
Luke 17:26 (No one knows the hour or the day):
The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.i 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them (ALL).28Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them (ALL).
So as in the days of Noah, so shall it be when Christ returns.
How or what where they and likened unto. A day when men desire to see Christ come? Or see his miracles and wonders so that they me believe.? Matthew warns us that they will do great signs and wonders to deceive the elect, if it we're possible The world was full with violence. Most, it says all, but Noah was found just, that's why I put most hearts where only filled with wicked thoughts all the time. Most waxed cold and self centered. They scoffed at Noah. I know as you it doesn't say that directly however, if a man was building a giant boat no where near water, and the world was like it is today. Look at all the people giving that guy in KY who built an ark "replica", he gets all kinds of grief. It goes without saying. They went on like nothing was wrong, eating and drinking, giving in marriage, being happy in their evils works and deeds and all was normal. Till the ark was shut!! The storm came and (washed away the wicked.). They beat on the doors, save us!! But it was sealed by God and could not be opened. Tell me, was there a second chance for the people, any of them? Not in Noah's day and not in Sodom... hold that thought. It is applicable to what I believe God has shown be about His return and the "rapture". I will write that, God willing if it is His will tomorrow.
Days of Noah to me are represented pretty obviously to me today. This season and time. We have all of this. The part about eating and drinking itself is deep. Because not only does this represent worldly food, but acceptance of worldly spirituality food. How it was important to them in the last days. Trust God to provide you these things, (both things). Seek the Kingdom of heaven first and you will have all you need. Now these days there seems to be about 20 cooking shows I can think of off the top of my head. With about as many money loving evagalests. Marriages take planning, planning for the event and planning for a happy life together. This goes on today just like then, Oblivious to what was going on around them. Animals dying, earthquakes. On going Wars, rumors/threats of wars. Keep this line in mind too. They were all so tied up in their flesh and the world. Yet if it is evil, they run to it. And to do it. They say evil is good, fulfilling the prophecy of "they will call what is good evil and evil good." So I ask you Again, did they in Noah's or Lots day get a second chance? Why did Luke bring up Lot and Sodom? What are your thoughts on this family? Hold it for me... write it down.
Matthew 24:45 (The faithful servant and evil servant):
Who then is the faithful and wise servant the Master made ruler over His household, to give them food in due season?
Blessed is the servant who when the Master comes finds him so doing.
But if the evil servant in his heart says my master is delaying his coming, and begins to beat his fellow servants, the Master of that servant will come when he is not looking for for him and at an hour not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and mashing of teeth.
To me this says stay in the word and in Christ, preach the truth (the food of heaven). Live in the Spirit, Love God more then anything and love your brothers and sisters, in and out of Christ. Care enough for them to tell them the truth once you have heard it. Stay on guard and keep watch, DO NOT believe your master is delayed. For you to believe that. Wouldn't you have to be expecting something? Do not fall away. Again, key line.... stomp. Stomp...
If you don't share your talents that were given to you based on your faith and seeking, then you end up hiding them. Then you never got a chance to share and gain. Then isn't that evil wicked servant justly thrown out? For what good is salt if it has lost its flavor?
That would make you or I guilty of your blood and your chance to repent and return to God. For those of you who think you can give lip service to God (once saved always saved) and for those of you who then walk and continue to walk through life living in the flesh. Never striving or resisting or praying for strength, or seeking the truth and Will of God. Showing which master you love and serve. Also expecting something... that makes you believe he isn't coming, or delayed. Take heed of the second servant brothers and sisters. It is written, These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Matthew 25:1 (The 10 virgins)
Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lampsa and went to meet the bridegroom.b 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
Now brothers and sisters, notice you have 6 wise and 5 foolish. They all are bridesmaids. That means they believe in Christ. Now here comes a stomp moment... notice the setting, it is in the middle of the night. God is deeper then one word on a page. It is in the middle of the darkest hours that He comes. Now we know the world IS round!! We know the sun shines on one side and not the other. God makes no mistakes. It is dark because it will be dark in the world as it is written Immediately after the tribulation. I will again expand on this, but I feel at this point some of your eyes are starting to open as you read this message. So the fire is the Holy Spirit, it is fed by oil, the oil is the Word of God/food for the Spirit. So I ask you, why would you trim your lamp? Are we not to be the light of the world? Or has the world turned so dark and the times so bad. You trim your light? If you do not read your bible. Pray and strive to be Holy. Then your oil will dry up. By the time the foolish bridesmaids wake up!!! The door is shut!! stomp Stomp... let us in!!! He will answer them, I never knew you!!! Line sound familiar pre-mid trib????
It is late now, again, love to you brothers and sisters. Wake up!! Believe!!!
Love, your humble brother in Christ
]Brother and Sister,
Thank you, so far at a glance I have seen the discussions going on. So far, at a glance I have not seen judgment or hate. Just debate about the "rapture". I too will join this and provide what I believe has been revealed to me but first. More Importantly let us talk about several parables. Those associated with the end of times and what is God trying to tell us. Let's discuss this.
Luke 17:26 (No one knows the hour or the day):
The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.i 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them (ALL).28Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them (ALL).
So as in the days of Noah, so shall it be when Christ returns.
How or what where they and likened unto. A day when men desire to see Christ come? Or see his miracles and wonders so that they me believe.? Matthew warns us that they will do great signs and wonders to deceive the elect, if it we're possible The world was full with violence. Most, it says all, but Noah was found just, that's why I put most hearts where only filled with wicked thoughts all the time. Most waxed cold and self centered. They scoffed at Noah. I know as you it doesn't say that directly however, if a man was building a giant boat no where near water, and the world was like it is today. Look at all the people giving that guy in KY who built an ark "replica", he gets all kinds of grief. It goes without saying. They went on like nothing was wrong, eating and drinking, giving in marriage, being happy in their evils works and deeds and all was normal. Till the ark was shut!! The storm came and (washed away the wicked.). They beat on the doors, save us!! But it was sealed by God and could not be opened. Tell me, was there a second chance for the people, any of them? Not in Noah's day and not in Sodom... hold that thought. It is applicable to what I believe God has shown be about His return and the "rapture". I will write that, God willing if it is His will tomorrow.
Days of Noah to me are represented pretty obviously to me today. This season and time. We have all of this. The part about eating and drinking itself is deep. Because not only does this represent worldly food, but acceptance of worldly spirituality food. How it was important to them in the last days. Trust God to provide you these things, (both things). Seek the Kingdom of heaven first and you will have all you need. Now these days there seems to be about 20 cooking shows I can think of off the top of my head. With about as many money loving evagalests. Marriages take planning, planning for the event and planning for a happy life together. This goes on today just like then, Oblivious to what was going on around them. Animals dying, earthquakes. On going Wars, rumors/threats of wars. Keep this line in mind too. They were all so tied up in their flesh and the world. Yet if it is evil, they run to it. And to do it. They say evil is good, fulfilling the prophecy of "they will call what is good evil and evil good." So I ask you Again, did they in Noah's or Lots day get a second chance? Why did Luke bring up Lot and Sodom? What are your thoughts on this family? Hold it for me... write it down.
Matthew 24:45 (The faithful servant and evil servant):
Who then is the faithful and wise servant the Master made ruler over His household, to give them food in due season?
Blessed is the servant who when the Master comes finds him so doing.
But if the evil servant in his heart says my master is delaying his coming, and begins to beat his fellow servants, the Master of that servant will come when he is not looking for for him and at an hour not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and mashing of teeth.
To me this says stay in the word and in Christ, preach the truth (the food of heaven). Live in the Spirit, Love God more then anything and love your brothers and sisters, in and out of Christ. Care enough for them to tell them the truth once you have heard it. Stay on guard and keep watch, DO NOT believe your master is delayed. For you to believe that. Wouldn't you have to be expecting something? Do not fall away. Again, key line.... stomp. Stomp...
If you don't share your talents that were given to you based on your faith and seeking, then you end up hiding them. Then you never got a chance to share and gain. Then isn't that evil wicked servant justly thrown out? For what good is salt if it has lost its flavor?
That would make you or I guilty of your blood and your chance to repent and return to God. For those of you who think you can give lip service to God (once saved always saved) and for those of you who then walk and continue to walk through life living in the flesh. Never striving or resisting or praying for strength, or seeking the truth and Will of God. Showing which master you love and serve. Also expecting something... that makes you believe he isn't coming, or delayed. Take heed of the second servant brothers and sisters. It is written, These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Matthew 25:1 (The 10 virgins)
Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lampsa and went to meet the bridegroom.b 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
Now brothers and sisters, notice you have 5 wise and 5 foolish. They all are bridesmaids. That means they believe in Christ. Now here comes a stomp moment... notice the setting, it is in the middle of the night. God is deeper then one word on a page. It is in the middle of the darkest hours that He comes. Now we know the world IS round!! We know the sun shines on one side and not the other. God makes no mistakes. It is dark because it will be dark in the world as it is written Immediately after the tribulation. I will again expand on this, but I feel at this point some of your eyes are starting to open as you read this message. So the fire is the Holy Spirit, it is fed by oil, the oil is the Word of God/food for the Spirit. So I ask you, why would you trim your lamp? Are we not to be the light of the world? Or has the world turned so dark and the times so bad. You trim your light? If you do not read your bible. Pray and strive to be Holy. Then your oil will dry up. By the time the foolish bridesmaids wake up!!! The door is shut!! stomp Stomp... let us in!!! He will answer them, I never knew you!!! Line sound familiar pre-mid trib????
It is late now, again, love to you brothers and sisters. Wake up!! Believe!!!
Love, your humble brother in Christ[/QUOTE]
Thank you, so far at a glance I have seen the discussions going on. So far, at a glance I have not seen judgment or hate. Just debate about the "rapture". I too will join this and provide what I believe has been revealed to me but first. More Importantly let us talk about several parables. Those associated with the end of times and what is God trying to tell us. Let's discuss this.
Luke 17:26 (No one knows the hour or the day):
The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23And they will say to you, ‘Look, there!’ or ‘Look, here!’ Do not go out or follow them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.i 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them (ALL).28Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them (ALL).
So as in the days of Noah, so shall it be when Christ returns.
How or what where they and likened unto. A day when men desire to see Christ come? Or see his miracles and wonders so that they me believe.? Matthew warns us that they will do great signs and wonders to deceive the elect, if it we're possible The world was full with violence. Most, it says all, but Noah was found just, that's why I put most hearts where only filled with wicked thoughts all the time. Most waxed cold and self centered. They scoffed at Noah. I know as you it doesn't say that directly however, if a man was building a giant boat no where near water, and the world was like it is today. Look at all the people giving that guy in KY who built an ark "replica", he gets all kinds of grief. It goes without saying. They went on like nothing was wrong, eating and drinking, giving in marriage, being happy in their evils works and deeds and all was normal. Till the ark was shut!! The storm came and (washed away the wicked.). They beat on the doors, save us!! But it was sealed by God and could not be opened. Tell me, was there a second chance for the people, any of them? Not in Noah's day and not in Sodom... hold that thought. It is applicable to what I believe God has shown be about His return and the "rapture". I will write that, God willing if it is His will tomorrow.
Days of Noah to me are represented pretty obviously to me today. This season and time. We have all of this. The part about eating and drinking itself is deep. Because not only does this represent worldly food, but acceptance of worldly spirituality food. How it was important to them in the last days. Trust God to provide you these things, (both things). Seek the Kingdom of heaven first and you will have all you need. Now these days there seems to be about 20 cooking shows I can think of off the top of my head. With about as many money loving evagalests. Marriages take planning, planning for the event and planning for a happy life together. This goes on today just like then, Oblivious to what was going on around them. Animals dying, earthquakes. On going Wars, rumors/threats of wars. Keep this line in mind too. They were all so tied up in their flesh and the world. Yet if it is evil, they run to it. And to do it. They say evil is good, fulfilling the prophecy of "they will call what is good evil and evil good." So I ask you Again, did they in Noah's or Lots day get a second chance? Why did Luke bring up Lot and Sodom? What are your thoughts on this family? Hold it for me... write it down.
Matthew 24:45 (The faithful servant and evil servant):
Who then is the faithful and wise servant the Master made ruler over His household, to give them food in due season?
Blessed is the servant who when the Master comes finds him so doing.
But if the evil servant in his heart says my master is delaying his coming, and begins to beat his fellow servants, the Master of that servant will come when he is not looking for for him and at an hour not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and mashing of teeth.
To me this says stay in the word and in Christ, preach the truth (the food of heaven). Live in the Spirit, Love God more then anything and love your brothers and sisters, in and out of Christ. Care enough for them to tell them the truth once you have heard it. Stay on guard and keep watch, DO NOT believe your master is delayed. For you to believe that. Wouldn't you have to be expecting something? Do not fall away. Again, key line.... stomp. Stomp...
If you don't share your talents that were given to you based on your faith and seeking, then you end up hiding them. Then you never got a chance to share and gain. Then isn't that evil wicked servant justly thrown out? For what good is salt if it has lost its flavor?
That would make you or I guilty of your blood and your chance to repent and return to God. For those of you who think you can give lip service to God (once saved always saved) and for those of you who then walk and continue to walk through life living in the flesh. Never striving or resisting or praying for strength, or seeking the truth and Will of God. Showing which master you love and serve. Also expecting something... that makes you believe he isn't coming, or delayed. Take heed of the second servant brothers and sisters. It is written, These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Matthew 25:1 (The 10 virgins)
Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lampsa and went to meet the bridegroom.b 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.8And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
Now brothers and sisters, notice you have 5 wise and 5 foolish. They all are bridesmaids. That means they believe in Christ. Now here comes a stomp moment... notice the setting, it is in the middle of the night. God is deeper then one word on a page. It is in the middle of the darkest hours that He comes. Now we know the world IS round!! We know the sun shines on one side and not the other. God makes no mistakes. It is dark because it will be dark in the world as it is written Immediately after the tribulation. I will again expand on this, but I feel at this point some of your eyes are starting to open as you read this message. So the fire is the Holy Spirit, it is fed by oil, the oil is the Word of God/food for the Spirit. So I ask you, why would you trim your lamp? Are we not to be the light of the world? Or has the world turned so dark and the times so bad. You trim your light? If you do not read your bible. Pray and strive to be Holy. Then your oil will dry up. By the time the foolish bridesmaids wake up!!! The door is shut!! stomp Stomp... let us in!!! He will answer them, I never knew you!!! Line sound familiar pre-mid trib????
It is late now, again, love to you brothers and sisters. Wake up!! Believe!!!
Love, your humble brother in Christ[/QUOTE]
I say Amen, for God opens the eyes of men when they hear the truth and listen to their Spirit. Brother and sister remember what I said to you before In the start of this post though. Be a good servant, as the parable teaches.
Believe in God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, for He is the ONLY way to God through His life, death and resurrection. Read the word of God and seek his treasure and His will. Keep the commandments, and keep watch. If you do all of these things out of great fear. Humility/admiration and Love for God.
Then you don't have to worry about when He will come, because for one it might be tomorrow. Another, six month. For some in the darkness. When you should be out there with your light the brightest, for His honor and glory. Live, Love all serve all. However, never waiver from the Truth.
God does not love me anymore then any of you. He is waiting for you. Now fall in love and be baptized by the Holy Spirit according to your faith. Be Spirit filled and do the work of God. Even unto peril if need be.
My speech was changed in that message earlier because I want you to know I am a man. Do not hold me in esteem, I am that which God says I am, I call myself a witness. I hear some have been debating on this matter. The messenger is not important. It is the message that matters.
A brother in Christ
Believe in God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, for He is the ONLY way to God through His life, death and resurrection. Read the word of God and seek his treasure and His will. Keep the commandments, and keep watch. If you do all of these things out of great fear. Humility/admiration and Love for God.
Then you don't have to worry about when He will come, because for one it might be tomorrow. Another, six month. For some in the darkness. When you should be out there with your light the brightest, for His honor and glory. Live, Love all serve all. However, never waiver from the Truth.
God does not love me anymore then any of you. He is waiting for you. Now fall in love and be baptized by the Holy Spirit according to your faith. Be Spirit filled and do the work of God. Even unto peril if need be.
My speech was changed in that message earlier because I want you to know I am a man. Do not hold me in esteem, I am that which God says I am, I call myself a witness. I hear some have been debating on this matter. The messenger is not important. It is the message that matters.
A brother in Christ
G
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Friend, Brothers and sisters!!! Again I tell you the truth, It is not your faith in a pre-mid-post tribe rapture that will save you!! It is your faith and conduct in the Lord!! Even now brothers and sisters around the world are bing tourtered/tourmented and killed in many ways. Who are laying down their lives In the name of Christ... so ask yourself. How much oil do you have? How much faith?
Brothers and Sisters.
Would a Shepard leave his sheep behind because they didn't know when he was coming?
Or because they are not His sheep?
Is it not written, no one knows the hour or the day? Is it not written keep watch and be ready? If what I speak is in the Bible and the word of God that is true. Who have you been listening too?
Then I ask you? Who has sold you a poisoned apple for a profit, to think that believing in a season and time which no one knows! That this will keep you from the hour of testing and refining?
Would a Shepard leave his sheep behind because they didn't know when he was coming?
Or because they are not His sheep?
Is it not written, no one knows the hour or the day? Is it not written keep watch and be ready? If what I speak is in the Bible and the word of God that is true. Who have you been listening too?
Then I ask you? Who has sold you a poisoned apple for a profit, to think that believing in a season and time which no one knows! That this will keep you from the hour of testing and refining?